I find there is also a feel that I prefer to lenses that are designed for excellent bokeh that isn't achieved through nightmarishly thin depth of field. It's a reason why I have never cared for the rendering of Canon's 85/1.2's. It always looks (to me) that it is good bokeh through shallow dof rather than a lens formulated for it. In most cases, I am happiest with it at f/1.6, but the bokeh stays decent up to f/2, but just doesn't look special. It just looks ordinary but with some harshness to it.
TheEmrys wrote:
I find there is also a feel that I prefer to lenses that are designed for excellent bokeh that isn't achieved through nightmarishly thin depth of field. It's a reason why I have never cared for the rendering of Canon's 85/1.2's. It always looks (to me) that it is good bokeh through shallow dof rather than a lens formulated for it. In most cases, I am happiest with it at f/1.6, but the bokeh stays decent up to f/2, but just doesn't look special. It just looks ordinary but with some harshness to it.
So given the tests you seen that I did even though in tough backgrounds which i do on propose where is the ugly cut off point. For me its after F4
i really should rent this copy out - it's my 3rd copy (well 4th if you count the first one that was excellent that i let go like a moron). those were center crops, but it's a pretty good copy.
Im gun shy as you know but I did build around the two GMs just did not say anything, I did grab a A6300 so i figured what the hell I got the Sony 28 F2 for it and I can use it on the FF body, Grabbed a Loxia 50 and than today added the Rokinon 135 F2 . All the glass was used though. I got several big gigs so I need to fill in some holes.
GMPhotography wrote:
So given the tests you seen that I did even though in tough backgrounds which i do on propose where is the ugly cut off point. For me its after F4
Totally. It is a lens designed for excellent bokeh. 85mm @ f/4 with good to neutral bokeh? Hard to come by. Someone out there really loves designing lenses for bokeh. I want to buy him a drink someday.
I have to say I am really liking the bokeh at f/4 and above. It is personal but having been at the surf over the weekend, I did try many shots at f/8 to see what the GM 85 is like stopped down.
The last set of B&W shots were focused closer to mid distance, one on the seagull and the other on the surfer and I felt the background was not intrusive and gently fell back as it should.
Charles, what are you thinking of the color rendering and tonal translation (or anyone) of the GM 85? I got mine last week, and it's been consistently drab light, but so far I am like the Mino 85 and N85 better in this regard.
GMPhotography wrote:
Charles I can tell your pretty well taken by this lens. I think that's really great to see. Love to see some more primes now
Yes your right But really it has to do with the fact the GM 85 truly matches the A7rII sensor... finally.
In truth there are many amazing lenses out there and I had a whole shelf of Leica lenses which I loved, but just did not work with A7 sensor. The two lenses that did work wonderfully was the WATE which I sold as I was moving to the Batis 25, but the other favorite lens is the 50 Cron IV(Mandler) which works superbly on the A7rII.
I agree some more GM primes with this style optical design philosophy would be great !!!
I have another theory is that with the sensors with increased DR and MP's, I think many of us are looking for a different look not too indifferent from the Minolta/Leica look. The high resolution and high micro contrast works when you wish to increase the apparent sharpness of an image and was more designed for smaller sensors and lesser MP's. With the high MP a lot of the high contrast is too strong for my eyes with the very fine detail. Maybe this is why I really like the lenses like the FE 50/1.8 on the A7s with the 12 MP?
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Charles, what are you thinking of the color rendering and tonal translation (or anyone) of the GM 85? I got mine last week, and it's been consistently drab light, but so far I am like the Mino 85 and N85 better in this regard.
The color rendering is superb IMO. I am finding this lens almost behaves in color drawing like the ZA 135/1.8. The tonal transition is superb, as the test I use is when I convert to B&W in SEP II, I am not needing any adjustments as the color tonal graduations are all there. The lens is beautifully sharp and I am finding for portraits I turn the LR sharpening default from 25 to 0 even for f/1.4. The feeling I get is that I am looking at medium format shots.
The truth is many photogs will be better suited with the Batis 85, some will prefer other lenses but the beauty is the choices that we now have
charles.K wrote:
I have another theory is that with the sensors with increased DR and MP's, I think many of us are looking for a different look not too indifferent from the Minolta/Leica look. The high resolution and high micro contrast works when you wish to increase the apparent sharpness of an image and was more designed for smaller sensors and lesser MP's. With the high MP a lot of the high contrast is too strong for my eyes with the very fine detail. Maybe this is why I really like the lenses like the FE 50/1.8 on the A7s with the 12 MP?...Show more →
that is precisely what won me over vs the batis - the batis was contrasty and sometimes that can be mistaken for sharpness but when i compared full sized shots across 6x 30 inch monitors sitting about 4 feet from my desk, it was easily apparent that the 85GM had the goods as far as resolution - yet, also managed to render extreme detail 'smoothly' without ever approaching 'harsh' - perhaps that is a good way to describe the difference between contrast and resolution. almost analog, not digital if that makes any sense. phonograph, not ipod.
i also find it easier (more controllable) to add a bit of micro-contrast/structure/saturation if needed than it is to try and take it out. (not sure if that's actually true, but it just feels that way).
I agree it has a very nice soft rendering which is great for people shots. What I found when I did my junkyard stuff I needed to add some punch with a little clarity and a touch of black point level up to get a little extra pop. But that's the look I wanted , now some might say that's bad. Actually it's good you can add the pop but it's harder to get the tonal range for a smoother image. Here is where the lens and sensor shine, it has a very very smooth look to it with great transition areas. You know I don't like marketing stuff but they did nail it what they said they where after. Everything else is BS but they do deserve credit this not your high contrast lens but has a more subtle look to it, but you can as I did make it jump too. Pretty cool
Erik we posted exactly the same time. Your thoughts mimic mine as well. This lens is something I have not seen in a long time. Lens designers today go for throat because everyone has become a resolution freak with that you get higher micro contrast and a more clinical look. I'm glad Sony went the other way.
GMPhotography wrote:
Erik we posted exactly the same time. Your thoughts mimic me be as well.
that's borderline scary, i should go now
:-)
i do need to get a life, however - i just finished another de-center test on my 35/1.4 (now that i found that goofy focus target): with focus distance at 3 feet (because that's the width of my air hockey table and i know it's perfectly square), the extreme right edge is out relative to the extreme left edge by about a 1/2 to 3/4 inch at f/2 and 3/8 to 1/2 inch at f2.8 - so i'll keep it (actually, i bought it used and will sell it after i get back from my 2nd trip to Italy in August and hope we get a GM at Photokina! Now, who am i really starting to sound like?)
GMPhotography wrote:
I agree it has a very nice soft rendering which is great for people shots. What I found when I did my junkyard stuff I needed to add some punch with a little clarity and a touch of black point level up to get a little extra pop. But that's the look I wanted , now some might say that's bad. Actually it's good you can add the pop but it's harder to get the tonal range for a smoother image. Here is where the lens and sensor shine, it has a very very smooth look to it with great transition areas. You know I don't like marketing stuff but they did nail it what they said they where after. Everything else is BS but they do deserve credit this not your high contrast lens but has a more subtle look to it, but you can as I did make it jump too. Pretty cool...Show more →
I like that Sony has finally taken a distinctive creative aesthetic to their lenses rather than putting out lenses strictly by spec/size.
I feel like the GM 85 with it's focus on color, richness and bokeh is finally the brainchild many were hoping for when Sony procured Minolta. From preliminary shooting, I feel like the GM 85 is surprisingly reminiscent of the Mino Limited 85, but with much less fringing, slightly more diffused bokeh and a slightly different color profile. But it's nice to finally see Sony hitting their stride rather than the confused Sony that sometimes had just wonderful stuff--za 135, rx1, a900, etc.
I am also liking that the GM line has a similar aesthetic within the line--despite the differences, they feel related.
