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Archive 2016 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Kane Engelbert
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Hovenweep National Monument, Utah

Hello Team Fred Miranda!

I'm new. And this is my first post of many more to come over the next year. Been sort of lurking this forum for a while and thought I should jump on in and become part of a very worthy community of excellent photographers. Many names here I recognize and have tremendous respect.

First, I'm a critique freak. I love it. I love the good, but most of all I love the tough critique. I'm a big believer in honest critique to grow my photography skill set. So bring it.

In 1250ad the Ancestral Puebloan's (Anasazi) built the Hovenweep. Its believed the well built Hovenweep structures where constructed by the same craftsman/farmers that built Mesa Verde which resides only 2 hr drive away.

This is Cutthroat Castle, an outlying ruin, away from the main Little Ruin Canyon complex.

I love ruins, especially at night. Supreme Spiritual experience.

Hovenweep resides within the official Dark Sky Parks Association which renders rediculous star photography.

This is about a 1.5 hr "composite" hand blended for clarity. Stars shot at 5:40am, Cutthroat Castle shot during the Nautical hr, about 50 minutes later.

Critique comments appreciated!

Mar 03, 2016 at 09:43 PM

ajkessler
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Welcome Kane! This is an interesting shot. The sky is stunning.

As far as critiques go, this is tough, because I think you've handled this scene about as well as you could have. Its always hard to tell at these sizes, but from a technical standpoint it doesn't look like there's anything wrong with the shot (always a good start!). And, I like the way you've processed this. You've really focused the eye on the most interesting parts of the scene.

The big critique from me would be that there just isn't enough interesting stuff to look at in this scene. Plus, because all we can really see is the ruin and the sky, there's not a great sense of scale. The opening that looks like a doorway at the bottom helps, but not much. I still can't tell whether this structure is 10 or 40 feet tall. Though I personally think its kind of overdone, this might be a situation where you want to use a really wide lens, move the camera right near a dominant foreground object, put the main structure in the midground, and have the sky dominate the scene (and having never seen this spot, I have no idea if this idea is even feasible).

So to sum up, I think you did a great job processing the shot, but I think you might be able to do better with a different composition. Hope this helps, and definitely hope to see more of your work!

Mar 04, 2016 at 12:56 AM

jforkner
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

It’s an interesting composition, but the sky doesn’t work for me. First, it’s too lavender—I’d have thought it’d be more black or gray—but maybe that’s how it was. Second…I’m guessing that’s the Milky Way behind the ruins. If so, I’d have liked to see it shifted a bit to the right so it’s slope parallels the shape of the right-side of the ruins and stands out more. Finally, a little more processing is needed to bring out the MW (assuming that’s what it is & not clouds).

I think the image has great potential, but the sky needs some work.

Jack

Mar 04, 2016 at 08:25 AM

Lynn Ross
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

First off Welcome Kane,

And second off I love the photo, I know from watching the all the star app's that the milky way is just beginning to come up in this part of the country and it's a arch now coming up in the south and arching to the e/southeast (you can't change that! It's nature)

The fact that you got up a 5:30 (or so) in the morning to get here to take this photo means that you prepared yourself for this shot (I commend you for this)

Also about the sky, the sun is coming up and that makes the sky hard to balance out along with the early shot (sky) with the foreground shot (later) and I feel that you have done a great job.

One more thing I have been all over that area and have never seen this one before now, Thanks! At least from that side!

Enough kudo's for ya!
I would be proud to have that photo hanging on my wall

Lynn

Mar 04, 2016 at 09:03 AM

dgdg
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

That's a very cool shot.
Yes, the sky is a bit lavender, but it matches the red rock well. It's a personal call on this one. I like it the way it is.

David

Mar 04, 2016 at 01:21 PM

Jeffrey
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Hello Kane, and welcome!

I am not an expert in creating night sky images, though I've seen very many. The sky looks pretty good here. However, I want to see more detail in the ruin and it's too dark to do that. I think good sky images have a foreground of minimal interest or one that doesn't require more light than the sky image yields. Neither is happening here. Brightening it too much will look strange, but there is probably a sweet spot that would let me see the ruin a bit better and not look too unnatural.

Mar 04, 2016 at 04:13 PM

wlpelzmann
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Hi, Kane!

Sweet! I like the mystery of the darker image. It's hard to gauge what others are seeing. I have two "calibrated" monitors. One shows the image somewhat brighter than the other. Both are quite acceptable. Just a matter of taste.

I consider the ruin as the primary subject. The sky makes a nice background. So, any adjustments should be made to optimize the ruins.

Keep them coming!

Mar 04, 2016 at 07:34 PM

jord217
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Ruins are some of my favorite subjects to photograph so this is like crack for my eyes

I think it's perfect. I wouldn't change a thing. Absolutely terrific job!

Mar 04, 2016 at 07:45 PM

Kane Engelbert
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Lynn Ross wrote:
First off Welcome Kane,

And second off I love the photo, I know from watching the all the star app's that the milky way is just beginning to come up in this part of the country and it's a arch now coming up in the south and arching to the e/southeast (you can't change that! It's nature)

The fact that you got up a 5:30 (or so) in the morning to get here to take this photo means that you prepared yourself for this shot (I commend you for this)

Also about the sky, the sun is coming up and that...Show more →

Thanks Lynn, the low horizon and angle of the MW in early Feb was the primary reason I headed down there. An added benefit was it showing strong at 4:50 am with nautical sunrise at 5:15, so you could get "cooler" blue skies with the MW as the sun rose. Thanks for calling that out.

Mar 04, 2016 at 08:19 PM

Kane Engelbert
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

ajkessler wrote:
Welcome Kane! This is an interesting shot. The sky is stunning.

As far as critiques go, this is tough, because I think you've handled this scene about as well as you could have. Its always hard to tell at these sizes, but from a technical standpoint it doesn't look like there's anything wrong with the shot (always a good start!). And, I like the way you've processed this. You've really focused the eye on the most interesting parts of the scene.

The big critique from me would be that there just isn't enough interesting stuff to look at in this scene....Show more →

I agree that there isn't a lot of scale here and yes, I wish i had something in there to leverage the structure's 30-ft height. Great call and thanks for the well thought out reply.

Mar 04, 2016 at 08:22 PM

Kane Engelbert
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

wlpelzmann wrote:
Hi, Kane!

Sweet! I like the mystery of the darker image. It's hard to gauge what others are seeing. I have two "calibrated" monitors. One shows the image somewhat brighter than the other. Both are quite acceptable. Just a matter of taste.

I consider the ruin as the primary subject. The sky makes a nice background. So, any adjustments should be made to optimize the ruins.

Keep them coming!

Absolutely nailed my thought process. I shot this one with the structure as the main subject and the starry sky as an added perk. This structure, with the cool little room below was, at the time, what really impressed me. Unfortunately as AjKessler noted, there's not a lot of scale to show its impressive height. Sometimes I use the stars just to fill in the negative space above cool subjects. Its better than daylight blue sky right?

Mar 04, 2016 at 08:29 PM

Kane Engelbert
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

jforkner wrote:
It’s an interesting composition, but the sky doesn’t work for me. First, it’s too lavender—I’d have thought it’d be more black or gray—but maybe that’s how it was. Second…I’m guessing that’s the Milky Way behind the ruins. If so, I’d have liked to see it shifted a bit to the right so it’s slope parallels the shape of the right-side of the ruins and stands out more. Finally, a little more processing is needed to bring out the MW (assuming that’s what it is & not clouds).

I think the image has great potential, but the sky needs some work.

Jack

Hi Jack, I appreciate your reply and somewhat agree. I do think I could reduce yellow in the blues a bit. I scrunched this one up a little too much in Curves and the Blues went off a little. However, I am a big believer in artistic interpretation, especially with star stuff.

Mar 04, 2016 at 08:37 PM

jforkner
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Kane Engelbert wrote:
Hi Jack, I appreciate your reply and somewhat agree. I do think I could reduce yellow in the blues a bit. I scrunched this one up a little too much in Curves and the Blues went off a little. However, I am a big believer in artistic interpretation, especially with star stuff.

Agree about the artistic interpretation. It's your image to do with as you see fit. My comment was simply based on my recent concentration into the world of astrophotography (mostly thru a telescope). A lot of discussion & interpretation in that world about color.

Jack

Mar 05, 2016 at 12:45 PM

ckcarr
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

I like this one a lot.

Ruin shots are interesting, and how different photographers varying styles will interpret the same structure. Some will purposefully never veer from the natural coloration, wanting to show images more from a historical perspective, while others utilize the ruin as simply a starting point for their artistic talent. Since most people will never see any of these ruins it doesn't really matter. I have a fairly large library of books on the ruins out here, and every one takes the same scene and presents it differently. As far as the sky, my preferences are inky black or blue, least favorite the green that digital cameras create.

Mar 05, 2016 at 02:08 PM

Tuan Le
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Well done on the image. I like how the position of the Milky Way accentuates the ruins rather than competes with it. Processing looks real good to me. The only adjustment I would make is reducing the purple in the sky but that's fairly minor to me.

Mar 05, 2016 at 02:29 PM

Brad Williams
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Nice photo Kane! Seems like there are lots of different opinions on how night skies should look, but I don't get too picky and usually like all the different variations.

Glad to see you join FM too! I met you once out at Maroon Bells. I was out there shooting fall color with my friend Josh who you knew.

Mar 09, 2016 at 03:14 PM

Ipanematom
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Great job! Love the image and admire your dedication!

Mar 09, 2016 at 08:56 PM

Mark Metternich
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Looks great man. The black vignetting is a little heavy for me but all else looks good.

"I’d have thought it’d be more black or gray—but maybe that’s how it was"

I'm of the belief or camp that it does not need images to be "what it was" but open to creative interpretation...

Mar 11, 2016 at 05:08 PM

helenica
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Despite some of the earlier critics, I find enough interesting in this shot. I think that more details in the fort, would be overkill. Within limits I agree with Mark's "creative interpretation" point about the sky.

Mar 12, 2016 at 09:05 AM

Tim Knutson
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · A Galactic Cutthroat Castle

Mark Metternich wrote:
I'm of the belief or camp that it does not need images to be "what it was" but open to creative interpretation...

Exactly.!!

This is not a contest to re-create reality. You are obviously good enough to produce some very nice stuff. If you like how you've presented this comp, f everybody else. Make yourself happy.

That said, I think the rock would print a little dark.

Nice shot.

Mar 12, 2016 at 10:20 AM

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