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Archive 2016 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?

  
 
sjms
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p.2 #1 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?


the rate of corrosion will vary widely by environment. play by the ocean and it will progress faster.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1262154/5
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/996633

awhile back when gitzo redesigned their locking mechanism on the systematic there was a new market created for keeping the plate on due to loading of the plate in the split frame via a safety plate. they had a few pop out. they have since revised the design an open circle has more flex potential then a solid one. they demonstrated that.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/653824-REG/Naturescapes_GSP_35_Safety_Plate_for_Gitzo.html

I can find more but I just looked into it for a few minutes.




Sep 06, 2018 at 12:48 AM
AaronDinKC
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p.2 #2 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?


Abbot, thank you for the great info! I've about decided on the Mountaineer after reading your experience, was sub-consciously looking for a push that direction, I think... And it's the Series 3 I'm thinking—not the 2. I like the idea that even with a center column it's lighter than a similar Systematic. I'll virtually never use it, but there have been times where some extra height would be a lifesaver. A recent chainlink fence comes to mind…

I love my aluminum Series 4 and have never had the slightest trouble with it, so I haven't been tempted by RRS. But I'm getting older and more exhausted at the end of a day of dragging stuff around. Maybe a Mountaineer will extend MY useful life span!

Thanks again!



Sep 06, 2018 at 11:15 AM
Abbott Schindl
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p.2 #3 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?


Your first sited thread is 4 years old (2013-2014 posts). Is it known that Gitzo uses the same alloy, paint, manufacturing processes, etc., now as then? The spider and lock designs have obviously changed.

Thread 2 is even older (2011).
I'd prefer to see something more recent as Gitzo made some mechanical design changes several years ago and may have changed their metallurgy as well. However, even the threads sited include comments about long-time users not having any problems. It may be that Gitzo is more susceptible than those using machined Al parts, but even with that, the sited threads don't exactly indicate a widespread or particularly common problem.

I read about the Systematic issue several years ago, but as you said, Gitzo modified the plate design since to eliminate the problem.

After your post, I did a bit of research as well. Turned to Google and DuckDuckGo so as to look at FM and other sites. Couldn't find anything halfway substantive newer than 2014, and almost all posts were earlier than that (ca 2009-2012). Considering how "commonplace" corrosion-induced failures are claimed to be, I was surprised by the very small number of anecdotal posts I found. They all run about like the ones you sited, like "it's a well-known, common, predictable problem". If it really is, I'd expect to see at least a few comments about it on selling sites—or at least dozens of "me too" posts on forums. But I couldn't find any comments like "1-star rating because my x-year-old tripod failed miserably and Gitzo wouldn't make things right". Zero comments like that. I know I'd go back and write a product review if I had the kinds of catastrophic failures that were reported. And in the dozen or so threads I just read through, I could only find several "me too" comments.

I saw more concerns about water leaking in through the leg locks, which Gitzo seems to have addressed in the current lock design (an O-ring is supposed to reduce dust and water leakage into the joints).

My Systematic has see its share of salt water immersion, and I've always disassembled and cleaned it within 24 hours (doesn't take long to do and isn't hard; the new leg locks are even easier to work with). No problems so far, but the tripod's only 9.5 years old.

With all that said, though, I didn't find any serious reports of RRS tripod failures, other than some loose leg issues in earlier RRS designs.

So at the end of the day, I'm left of the opinion that both brands are darn reliable and I can't tell which is more reliable, as I have no idea how many units of each brand and model have been sold or how they're used. I doubt that one would go wrong with either brand and that choosing a tripod with the attributes one needs is probably more important than which of these two brands one gets. I considered Gitzo, RRS, and ProMediaGear for my most recent tripod purchase, and Gitzo was the only brand that had the combined attributes I was looking for (max height, min height, folded height, construction, weight, price).



Sep 06, 2018 at 11:54 AM
sjms
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p.2 #4 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?


They changed over to powdered metal molding. Same alloy
You are one of the few individuals who take the effort to do the job and most likely correctly. Not a high number in the population these days. Not that it matters but read the warranty if you need a laugh



Sep 06, 2018 at 02:23 PM
Abbott Schindl
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p.2 #5 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?


Yeh: I find a lot of warrantees to be laughable. For a real giggle, read some mattress warrantees. In addition to being prorated, they have pretty severe definitions of what some defects are—basically, regardless of warranty, the [expensive] mattresses I've looked at can't possibly wear out during their very long warranty periods, but they sure can get awfully uncomfortable! And most warrantees exclude claims if there's a stain anywhere on the piece.

Gitzo's current "limited" warranty looks to me pretty much like others, except they offer an extension to 7 years vs the 5 year limited warrantees provided by RRS, Kirk, ProMediaGear, and probably others. Based on the very small number of gripes I've seen and guessing at the relative numbers shipped, I've concluded that all four of these vendors make darn good, durable products that will exceed most users' needs, including mine. So for me it comes down to looking at features.

Quoted from Gitzo's warranty document:

"Gitzo products are warranted to be fit for the purpose for which they have been designed, and to be free from defects in materials and workmanship.

"This warranty does not cover any defects or costs caused by:
- misuse and subsequent damage. Misuse is defined by, but not limited to, the cases described here below, in the additional documentation and in the instruction manual included with the product.
- modification, alteration, repair or service of this product by anyone other than Gitzo;
- physical abuse to, overload of, or misuse of, the product or operation thereof in a manner contrary to the instructions accompanying the product;
- any use of the product other than that for which it was designed;
- shipment of the product to Gitzo for service;
- failure to comply with care and maintenance instructions accompanying the product."

From the wording, I assume that if a leg broke because, say, one tripped on a rock and fell against the leg, that Gitzo wouldn't cover it. What's not clear is what happens to a 6-year-old tripod that's got some paint worn off in several places, or if the legs are scratched from being lugged repeatedly through heavy brush. But the [old] broken spider castings photos I saw online should have been covered (not that it helps the gear or photo opps that might have been lost, or the trip that might have been ruined).

So in the end, it's up to the Gitzo (or other manufacturer) to determine whether the damaged product is a materials/workmanship issue or misuse. I guess they could consider any paint wear to indicate misuse, but I sure hope they're more honorable than that. B&W pulled that one on me several years ago, claiming that a CPL filter was user-damaged in a way that was extremely easy to measure (out-of-roundness). I measured the filter and it was round to as close as I could measure (0.0001"), but they said I must have dropped it. I'd even told them before sending it in that it was stiff when I initially received it sealed from an authorized dealer. I also had to pay to get the filter sent back to me!

In the end, I find most "limited warrantees" (which seem to be pretty much standard these days) to be useful only as an indicator of the manufacturer's faith in their product. Experienced companies tend to know their gear's failure modes and durability and, I believe, assign time limits to their warrantees so that the odds of a product breaking prematurely are pretty low.



Sep 06, 2018 at 07:08 PM
GroovyGeek
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p.2 #6 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?


I know I am going to get knocked around for the statement I am about to make but... After years of using Gitzos I bought a series 2 benro. One year later I could not be happier. As far as I am concerned there is absolutely no reason to pay $800+ for a gitzo or RRS when you can buy a Benro for less tan half the price and replace it 5 years later for another Benro that is sure to be better than your now 5 year old Gitzo or RRS. Just look at the Gitzo's from 5 years ago and compare them to today's tripods. Technology moves along at a decently brisk pace. YMMV.


Sep 08, 2018 at 12:10 AM
AaronDinKC
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p.2 #7 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?


I'm not at all opposed to thinking outside the tripod bag - I'll take a look! Feisol looked cool to me but I read several cautionary experiences with them...


Sep 08, 2018 at 09:07 AM
peter_n
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p.2 #8 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?


GroovyGeek wrote:
I know I am going to get knocked around for the statement I am about to make but... After years of using Gitzos I bought a series 2 benro. One year later I could not be happier.


Benros are Gitzo copies. There's a murky backstory that some years ago Gitzo were talking with Benro about manufacturing parts for them. It's thought that Benro were in possession of Gitzo's mechanical engineering drawings but nothing came of the proposed collaboration. I have used Gitzo parts on Benros and vice-versa. I've owned four Benro tripods in total and my Benro traveler was in it's eighth year of great service when it was replaced by a better tripod a few months ago. My experience has been that Benro (and Benro's brand Induro) make reliable and sturdy tripods.



Sep 08, 2018 at 10:10 AM
Dustin Gent
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p.2 #9 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?


AaronDinKC wrote:
I'm not at all opposed to thinking outside the tripod bag - I'll take a look! Feisol looked cool to me but I read several cautionary experiences with them...


What did you hear? I had a Manfrotto for 9 years that should have been in their museum in Italy, and then bought a Sirui; which was a total gamble since they weren't really known at the time.

In March when it was time to upgrade to a CF, I went with a Fiesol. I checked out the various Gitzo tripods, but wasn't in love with them. After getting ton of feedback on here and else where about Fiesol, I went with them and have been happy with them so far!



Sep 09, 2018 at 11:35 AM
AaronDinKC
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p.2 #10 · First-time Gitzo buyer - Systematic or Mountaineer for a Series 2?


I honestly read only one review of the Fiesol and that guy said parts broke, so I didn't look any further—I need to look again, and study better….


Sep 09, 2018 at 04:03 PM
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