Some attractive prices on used D4 bodies right now. How's the AF compare to that on the D4s? I've read that the D4s has the group AF point, but I'm more interested in its ability to track and lock on.
The game changer will be the new 5 chip in the D5 and the redesign to the AF focusing system shell and sensors. Although these D4(s) are good, the group lock on and follow appears from what I've seen to be day and night.
If your not a sports shooter, you wouldn't know this if it bit you. But for people that have always struggled with the frames shot/keeper rate, any change to this aspect of the systems is where the rubber meets the road.
If your an occasional fast mover shooter and coming from a pro-sumer model !
From 2008 with the D3 to the D4s all that Nikon changed with the autofocus system was the group autofocus, the f8 AF sensors, and increased sensitivity to -3 EV. Only with the f8 AF sensors and then only when using teleconverters have I seen a gain in autofocus performance.
The new AF system for the D5 and D500 will find its way into all Nikon cameras in the coming years and this is when I would be upgrading from whatever I had at the time. If I was shooting primarily landscapes or portraits then I would not both as the D800e is already at the pinnacle.
I would like to disagree a little about the AD comparison between the D4 and D4s. I originally used the D4 for sports and had some good experience, but when I bought my new, at the time, D4s I could immediately tell the difference. The intial AD lock on was way quicker. Also I experienced a lot of focus hunting while tracking movement in sporting events with the D4. I think they tweaked the algorithm a bit between the models.
If there wasn't a difference I would have kept the D4.
elkhornsun wrote:
From 2008 with the D3 to the D4s all that Nikon changed with the autofocus system was the group autofocus, the f8 AF sensors, and increased sensitivity to -3 EV. Only with the f8 AF sensors and then only when using teleconverters have I seen a gain in autofocus performance.
I think there is more to it than that. The AF module is obviously the key component but lots of other parts help out. Yes, the base CAM3500FX module has been in use from 2007, but that is only part of the equation.
The D4S AF system is twice as sensitive as the D3 system (-2.0 EV vs -1.0EV). The D750 is the only one with -3.0 EV, and then of course the new D5/D500 with -4.0EV.
The D4S uses EXPEED 4, the D3 uses EXPEED 1. That's three generations of AF calculation speed increases, and three generations of AF algorithm refinement. The D5/D500 take this a step further with a dedicated secondary processor to help with AF duties along with EXPEED 5 of course. 3D Tracking performance improves as well with the faster processors.
Nikon uses the metering sensor as part of the AF system (for 3D tracking and viewfinder face detection for example). The D3 is using the old 1005 pixel RGB sensor, the D4S gets the 91,000 pixel unit which helps some of the fancier focus modes.
So you're correct that the base module hasn't really changed, but they have made some significant AF improvements since the D3 using the same CAM3500FX module. I am very curious to see just how good the new CAM20K is, initial reports have been glowing.
Consensus seems to be even moving from the D4 --> D4S there is a noticeable increase in AF speed as well as accuracy.
Owned the D4 and D4s, not into technical stuff, but IMHO the D4s AF worked for me far better than the D4, marketed as an upgrade to the D4, but for me AF performed like a different machine altogether
D3s and D4 are almost the same regarding AF- performance. Though D4 feels a bit more "aggressive".
D4s is clearly better regarding AF. Group AF is just freakin amazing with fast moving subjects coming straight towards you. Much more aggressive than D4.
Main reason I upgraded from D4/D810.
goosemang wrote:
Some attractive prices on used D4 bodies right now. How's the AF compare to that on the D4s? I've read that the D4s has the group AF point, but I'm more interested in its ability to track and lock on.
I don't know what you currently shoot, but if you are moving from a non "pro" body to a D4, you will immediately see the difference in focus accuracy and keeper rate with a long lens. Having shot a D300, D700, D800E and D7200 on my 200-400mm f4 VRI, I noticed that each of these cameras had a sharpness / keeper rate that was equal to or below my experiences w/ a Canon 7D and Canon 300mm f2.8IS. Once I purchased and used my (current) D4 and fine-tuned it to the lens, I found that the camera locked on and maintained detail focus far better than any of my prior cameras. My keeper rate linked to AF performance has nearly doubled.
As for how it compares to the D4s (or next-gen D5/D500) I can't say, but at prices between $2500-$3000, it seems that the D4 is a bargain for anyone needing to track erratically moving subjects.
bruce
Thats good news to hear about improved AF performance over the D4. I've had my D4 since last summer and absolutely LOVE it for the rodeo events I shoot. Yeah, it will occasionally loose track and I'll have one or two frames out of focus on a string of shots, but this D4 is better than any previous camera I've owned, so it'll be a while before I upgrade.
Still kicking the tires on this issue. D4's are like $1500 less than d4s on the B&S.
I'm using cameras in like pj style shooting. Up close and personal, almost nothing longer than 50mm.
I'm using a d750 and it's great but the frame rate is a bit slow when I'm spraying and praying - people moving, I'm moving, and frequently just shoving a wide angle lens in the right place and crossing my fingers.
I just don't wanna go backwards from the d750 AF, which is quite good. I'd like the extra grip, battery life and frame rate of a d4, but only if I'm not risking losing more shots than currently due to a step back in AF. Any thoughts about the difference for non-tele lenses?
If $1500 is make or break, just remember D4 shooters were winning awards just two years ago. You're not getting sone inferior product. It's phenomenal. But if that $1500 difference will undermine your confidence, save longer and get the camera that will make you the most enthusiastic.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your subject matter? The description of your shooting approach is so different than mine I am just interested in what you are trying to shoot and in what conditions. It sounds like you are trying to photograph mobs at riots.
Jerry
goosemang wrote:
Still kicking the tires on this issue. D4's are like $1500 less than d4s on the B&S.
I'm using cameras in like pj style shooting. Up close and personal, almost nothing longer than 50mm.
I'm using a d750 and it's great but the frame rate is a bit slow when I'm spraying and praying - people moving, I'm moving, and frequently just shoving a wide angle lens in the right place and crossing my fingers.
I just don't wanna go backwards from the d750 AF, which is quite good. I'd like the extra grip, battery life and frame rate of a d4, but only if I'm not risking losing more shots than currently due to a step back in AF. Any thoughts about the difference for non-tele lenses?...Show more →
Lots of kids, and adults, and I just try to document events as they unfold. And I'm involved - I shoot from the perspective of being a participant instead of observing from a few steps back. I shoot mostly from fisheye up to 50mm at the absolute most... A lot of 28/35mm, and a lot of ultra wide. So a lot of times I'm trying to get different perspectives while just holding the camera right in the middle of something, I mean only a couple feet away, set to like f/5.6 or f/8 and I generally try to hold the camera in a way that I think will give me a shot that I can somewhat visualize on the fly, but of course there's a lot of luck involved and you never really know exactly what you're gonna get until it's all over.
So when doing that it's nice to get a burst of frames because there's a lot of camera shake, and of course you want a camera that you can trust to lock AF and fire quickly. DoF isn't a huge problem because I usually want more dof instead of less, but stopping down slows shutter speeds so I shoot frequently at like 3200/6400.
I also shoot micro 4/3 because depth of field is huge and Olympus bodies and lenses are really fast. They can't track worth a damn, but with huge depth of field it doesn't matter that much, just gotta lock AF and it'll be close enough most times. The danger with bad AF on any body is that you'll rack the lens and the delay will cause you to miss the shot or capture something *completey* out of focus.
I'm basically trying to document my life and the people
in it as it unfolds. And right now there are a lot of fast people in my life.
gdsf2 wroteIt sounds like you are trying to photograph mobs at riots.
To revive an old thread: I'm thinking of buying an old D3s or a D4 for corporate events so I can attach peoples names to files. But, I frequently shoot fast moving subjects in very low light situations (bar mitzvahs, wedding receptions, etc.) How large is the AF-C between D3s, D4 and D4s? I know the IQ differences, so I'm interested purely in AF.
NJohnston wrote:
Hey - first time post in this forum...
To revive an old thread: I'm thinking of buying an old D3s or a D4 for corporate events so I can attach peoples names to files. But, I frequently shoot fast moving subjects in very low light situations (bar mitzvahs, wedding receptions, etc.) How large is the AF-C between D3s, D4 and D4s? I know the IQ differences, so I'm interested purely in AF.
Anybody?
D3s af is rated at -1 ev, D4/D4s af is rated at -2 ev( better low light sensitivity)
Then there's the expeed(cpu power/speed)improvements.
You gain performance in every step(newer model).
