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Archive 2015 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85...
  
 
zhangyue
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


I agree it looks wonderful. especially first two images.


Jan 07, 2016 at 08:02 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


Interesting test, thanks for the work.

I used to own the 80 Lux-R and it was my favorite lens up until that point in time. I sold it when I moved from Canon to Nikon, but I still consider getting one from time to time. In these photos, I sadly don't see much of the character of the lens that I loved so much, they are too technical, and focus on issues which are not relevant to how I used it. It does have quite a bit of CA wide open, and it is somewhat hazy, but stopped down to f/4 or f/5.6, it becomes razor sharp and excellent. The 75 Lux-R, which I also used to own, is technically slightly better, while retaining almost all of the 80s gorgeous rendering.

Of these shots here, I am most fond of the 80 Lux and 85 N. The Minolta I am undecided on, and I don't like the L shots much. The boke is too bland and the colours too flat, for my taste. This is a general trend in Canon lenses and is also one of the main reasons why I left Canon.

At the moment I use mostly the ZF.2 85/1.4 on my A7, and the medium format Schneider 90/4, which is awesome on my Hy6.
Jan 08, 2016 at 03:14 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


carstenw wrote:
Interesting test, thanks for the work.

I used to own the 80 Lux-R and it was my favorite lens up until that point in time. I sold it when I moved from Canon to Nikon, but I still consider getting one from time to time. In these photos, I sadly don't see much of the character of the lens that I loved so much, they are too technical, and focus on issues which are not relevant to how I used it. It does have quite a bit of CA wide open, and it is somewhat hazy, but stopped down to f/4...Show more →

How do feel these don't reflect the character of the lens? (not offended, just curious) Feel free to post some that you feel show the character. I think I might loose some of its fingerprint by processing because I changed the colors, and probably loose some of the tonal delicacy. And I usually increase global contrast.


Also, I have read the 75 is slightly worse than the 80--but I don't know that. From what I have seen, I thought the 75 looked a pinch less soft WO, resulting strong colors and contrasts. I know the spacing of the optical elements is different in both lenses, but I think the formula is the same.


Jan 08, 2016 at 06:46 PM
charles.K
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


Thank you so much the test comparisons! My pick out of the selection would depend on whether you are taking portraits or landscapes. Portraits FD 85/1.2 or 80 Lux-R and lanscapes the 85N or Min

I agree with Carsten, that the 75 Lux is an amazing lens. The way it renders on portraits is very hard to beat IMO.

I still think the latest offering by Canon 85L II although somewhat of a beast is a very special lens on the A7rII, and behaves quite differently that the FD 85/1.2.

I have to say for portraits now with PDAF on the A7rII, I would find it hard to revert to MF again. I love MF of seascapes and landscapes but not for portraits.

My two favorite portraits lenses are 85L II and Batis 85


Jan 08, 2016 at 07:29 PM
aly324
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


This is a very interesting and illuminating comparison!

Over time I've owned 3 copies each of the Leica R80 and the M75, often concurrently. My impression, which is not backed by rigorous testing, is that the difference in sharpness is more attributable to the state of the individual copies than inherent in the slightly different optical designs.

Part of the appeal of the R80 for me is the lens as an object--the combination of weight, girth (sorry!), and mechanical design makes it lovely to handle and fondle. The position of the focus ring and the relatively short throw (about 110 degrees) to a relatively close MFD of 0.7m, as Michael mentioned, work well for spontaneous, intimate portraiture. The gradual OOF transition helps in the sense that focus error is not as obvious.

So the aesthetic character of the lens (which I might call romantic) complements the tactile experience. The M75 didn't really give me that experience. Nor did the FD 85L (too fat, MFD a bit too long, focus ring too far in front) or Contax-Yashica 85/1.4 and 100/2 (focus throw too long). Haven't used the N and Mino.

BTW I also think Uhoh's shots with the M75 look great in part because of the M9 sensor. I used the A7, A7R, A7S, and A7ii and loved them. But at low iso the M9 sensor has better pixel-level quality. Incidentally, I find that my R lenses worked best on the A7R in terms of color response. Somehow on the A7ii they seemed to lose a bit of their magic.
Jan 08, 2016 at 10:45 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


nehemiahphoto wrote:
How do feel these don't reflect the character of the lens? (not offended, just curious) Feel free to post some that you feel show the character. I think I might loose some of its fingerprint by processing because I changed the colors, and probably loose some of the tonal delicacy. And I usually increase global contrast.

Also, I have read the 75 is slightly worse than the 80--but I don't know that. From what I have seen, I thought the 75 looked a pinch less soft WO, resulting strong colors and contrasts. I know the spacing of the optical elements...Show more →

I just mean that you made technical shots, to examine the qualities of the lens. To see what I mean, you should push more in the direction of magic, and forget about sharpness and other bourgeois concepts

I have owned both the 75 and 80 Luxes, and the 75 is slightly stronger, but very similar.
Jan 26, 2016 at 03:28 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


part 2:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1431311
May 19, 2016 at 11:16 PM
Almass
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


Thank you for the 85ish/mm lens comparison.

I am a big fan of 85ish focal lens, and a bigger fan of Leica R glass, however the only lens common with your line up is the Leica R Lux 80/1.4
My line up is the Leica R: Elcan 75/2 - Summilux 80/1.4 - Summicron 90/2 AA.
Zeiss ZF2 85/1.4 - Contax Anni 85/1.2 - CZJ Biotar 75/1.5
Nikon 85/1.4G - 85/1.8G
Canon 85/1.2 EF

I noted that the Leica R Lux 80/1.4 which you are using is the 1981 model. The Lux 80 has in fact kept the same optical formula throughout the years, however, the coating has changed three times. The post 1998 coating is the better one and with a different color. It has affected the rendition of the lens and hence the bokeh tonality (not shape). I prefer the newer coating.

My preference for which lens very much depends on my mood and what I am shooting. Lately, I have been using the least expensive lens namely the Nikon 85/1.8 for the aseptic rendering and the feather weight. It is very practical for Beauty shots which require PP.

As for the other lenses, each is good in it's own way.....but I am bias to Leica color render.

.......and for the fun of it, guess the lens










May 20, 2016 at 03:04 AM
sebboh
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


Almass wrote:
.......and for the fun of it, guess the lens
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Duke_1/BB_zpsx6tnt2kx.jpg

looks like a biotar to me, but I'm on a cell phone.



May 20, 2016 at 02:52 PM
freaklikeme
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


I'll guess the anniversary 85/1.2, because it reminds me a little of the FD 85L.
May 20, 2016 at 05:41 PM
Almass
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


Close but no Cigar

I used two lenses for the same shoot. One was the Lux80 and the other is with the ZF2.

This version upthread is with the ZF2. The give away is the sharp centre and nervous Bokeh.

Keep guessing this new one (hint: cropped from D4s)
May 21, 2016 at 10:20 AM
sebboh
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


Almass wrote:
Close but no Cigar

I used two lenses for the same shoot. One was the Lux80 and the other is with the ZF2.

This version upthread is with the ZF2. The give away is the sharp centre and nervous Bokeh.


on my computer now the jpeg artifacts are too much for me to tell whether it's sharp anywhere or not, even at the small size... how compressed are these?
May 21, 2016 at 10:23 PM
Almass
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


sebboh wrote:
on my computer now the jpeg artifacts are too much for me to tell whether it's sharp anywhere or not, even at the small size... how compressed are these?



Are you getting Jpeg artifacts when viewing at 100% or zooming in?

The original file is around 100meg - Tiff which was compresses to a Jepg of approx 75kb.

So yes, it is pretty much compressed.
May 22, 2016 at 12:16 AM
sebboh
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


Almass wrote:
Are you getting Jpeg artifacts when viewing at 100% or zooming in?

The original file is around 100meg - Tiff which was compresses to a Jepg of approx 75kb.

So yes, it is pretty much compressed.



normal viewing on the fm thread with no enlargement.
May 22, 2016 at 01:02 AM
roofdweller49
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


Very informative thread. Any updates? Would like to see how the 85 1.4 milvus or Sony Zeiss compares to the contax n
Jul 24, 2018 at 12:31 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


roofdweller49 wrote:
Very informative thread. Any updates? Would like to see how the 85 1.4 milvus or Sony Zeiss compares to the contax n

No serious updates. I've owned all three of those lenses a couple times. I can give you my informal observations if you'd like.
Aug 01, 2018 at 06:17 PM
roofdweller49
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80



nehemiahphoto wrote:
No serious updates. I've owned all three of those lenses a couple times. I can give you my informal observations if you'd like.
I would love to hear your observations! How do they render skin? Would I be missing anything with the milvus compared to the Sony? (Don't care about the af)
Aug 03, 2018 at 05:32 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


roofdweller49 wrote:
I would love to hear your observations! How do they render skin? Would I be missing anything with the milvus compared to the Sony? (Don't care about the af)

I would say the N 85 has the richest, deepest colors. The greens are marvelous, and shadow detail is more gradual and pretty lovely. It offers very good to good sharpness centrally wide open, though definitely behind the Milvus and a hair behind the ZA 85. In the out 1/3 of the frame the sharpness drops off, and never sharpens up in the very corners. The Sony sensor stack interferes. In terms of fringing, I think it's actually bit better than the ZA 85, though wide open in certain circumstances it may be noticable. Most late film/early full frame digital fast 85s seems to have some annoying friniging wide open. The ZA 85 struck me as worse than the N 85. The N85 has the most structure in the bokeh though it's not at all rough. I like the bokeh of the N 85 the best. It also has the most "3D" or pop. Files feel a little more layered an spacious. The N85 has more personality than the other 2 lenses. And I prefer for the colors, bokeh and 3D. Files are extremely "rich" for lack of a better term. The AF speed was pretty typical for a 85 1.4, though noisy. Size is large with that 82mm filter thread though, and there's the whole repair issue and you must have an expensive adapter from a 3rd party, which is pain. Focus ring, focus play, contrast and ergo are great though for MF.

The ZA 85 has lighter Sony Zeiss colors. They feel a little less saturated and more luminous and balanced, though contrast is cracking right from 1.4. The ZA 85 1.4 fringing can be a real pain, but beyond this it's quite good optically. The outer portions of the frame are good to very good (on an a7) even wide open. Bokeh is very smooth, transitions are smooth as well. Aberrations are low and files feel fairly transparent like a very well corrected modern lenses, though not as much as the milvus. I would not say there's much 3D--structurally the ZA 85 draws closer to a Canon FD 85 1.2 with very abstracted bokeh. The za is an AF lens, and like other a-mount za lenses, the focus ring has a pinch of play, so getting very exact focus can be a bit frustrating at times. It's a pretty excellent lens, especially compared to many modern blander lenses.

The Milvus 85 is excruciatingly sharp wide open everywhere. Fringing is much better corrected than is the za 85 or n 85 and really a non-factor. Bokeh is also extremely smooth in all instances I saw. It's very large, heavy and slow to manual focus. I really dislike zeiss' textureless focus rings. Contrast didn't seem to change from 1.4 to 5.6 in a notable way (always exceptional). From what I have read and having shot it, it's on par with an 85 Otus, with the major differences being a minor amount of fringing, slightly better bokeh, but no APO correction. I personally didn't like the lens in terms of rendering, size, or ergonomics. I tend to pick character heavy lenses and don't need optical bliss wide open, so that is my bias.

Not sure which body/system, application, budget and/other constraints, but if it were me (and it was) I would pick up a Minolta 85 1.4 Limited or Leica 80 1.4/75 1.4 Summilux for people. Those lenses are the king of the hill to me. Of the three lenses you asked about, I would easily recommend the N 85 in terms of images, though again, it really comes down to the look you are after. I like the CY 35 1.4, zm 50 1.5, N 85, CY 100 and ZA 135 1.8 as my favorite zeiss portrait lenses I've shot.

Edited on Aug 08, 2018 at 01:23 PM · View previous versions
Aug 07, 2018 at 07:32 PM
roofdweller49
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80




nehemiahphoto wrote:
I would say the N 85 has the richest, deepest colors. The greens are marvelous, and shadow detail is more gradual and pretty lovely. It offers very good to good sharpness centrally wide open, though definitely behind the Milvus and a hair behind the ZA 85. In the out 1/3 of the frame the sharpness drops off, and never sharpens up in the very corners. The Sony sensor stack interferes. In terms of fringing, I think it's actually bit better than the ZA 85, though wide open in certain circumstances it may be noticable. Most late film/early full frame digital...Show more →
Thanks for your insight - I use the Sony e mount cameras, so I can put anything on it. Definitely want to give the milvus a shot. The N sounds amazing and has a legendary reputation, but I worry about the af motor dying. Is the Minolta limited the same as the g and the old style? Also, you prefer the 1.8 135 over the f2 Apo? I just wish Sony would make a la ea4 without the SLT

Thanks
Aug 08, 2018 at 09:30 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80


roofdweller49 wrote:
Thanks for your insight - I use the Sony e mount cameras, so I can put anything on it. Definitely want to give the milvus a shot. The N sounds amazing and has a legendary reputation, but I worry about the af motor dying. Is the Minolta limited the same as the g and the old style? Also, you prefer the 1.8 135 over the f2 Apo? I just wish Sony would make a la ea4 without the SLT

Thanks


I don't have an intelligent opinion on the ZA 135 versus ZF 135--to be honest, I rarely shoot above 100mm. This is why I sold my 135 ZA and never picked up a 135 ZF. From what I have seen, bokeh seems worse on the ZF (though still tremendous) while sharpness and color fringing are both better. The ZA 135 is pretty screamingly sharp even WO, so I think you're really looking at price, usability, bokeh and fringing. Again, the ZA 135 has Sony Zeiss colors, while the ZF has a different palate.

The 85 Minolta Limited is different than the normal version and the price reflects this. It's 150g heavier, with a larger front element. Only 700 were ever made. It's sharper with better bokeh and color. It has the smoothest bokeh of any 85mm. Colors are absolutely spectacular. I can't say enough about the color. You can pick them up on ebay for between 2-5k.

Everyone has been wishing Sony would make an LAEA-4 forever, but they are smart not to--shooters wouldn't buy new e-mount lenses often. I would be in this camp. So I understand this, but Sony's lack of support for a-mount is a joke.

You will find this interesting I think if you haven't already seen it:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1431311

Lastly, I owned 3 N 85's, all for about a year. One was coronus converted for Canon mount. No AF issues of any type.
Aug 08, 2018 at 01:35 PM
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