Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1 2

4 5 6 end

Archive 2015 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85...

AhamB
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

The Zeiss "3D" really stands out, as so often. The rendering of the 85L looks a little too well behaved for me to really like it. The Leica speaks for itself with its delicate character. The Minolta is new to me. Quite impressive to see what it can do, although I'd prefer the N85 over it.

Dec 14, 2015 at 12:11 PM

zhangyue
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

Very helpful comparison. All of them other than R80 are new to me. I only heard reputation about others

My short tele lens journey is finished after deciding purchase back R80. I have/had a full selection of high performance fast short tele glass, but for portrait, R80 striking a well balance with best handling including a very well designed focusing throw(perfect to me, Leica R's focusing focusing throw is always preferred to ZF to me, not talking direction here but how it was designed from MFD to infinity range vs turning degree).

There are other lens I have seen/used having smooth bokeh,(samyang, makiton, Nikon 58G to name a few) but none of them I see the same as R80 and I agree with OP, R80 can be busy at certain time. It is not just smooth, but about balance of sharpness, SA and in focus transition made it special.

To me: Bokeh can be smooth, can be busy, can be beautiful,(this can be subjective though) they are not the same thing. Leica R Lux trinity along with R35cron R90cron belong to last category in which R90cron also happen to be the first category. R50cron doesn't make it but it is a great all around lens.

Dec 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

zhangyue wrote:
Very helpful comparison. All of them other than R80 are new to me. I only heard reputation about others

My short tele lens journey is finished after deciding purchase back R80. I have/had a full selection of high performance fast short tele glass, but for portrait, R80 striking a well balance with best handling including a very well designed focusing throw(perfect to me, Leica R's focusing focusing throw is always preferred to ZF to me, not talking direction here but how it was designed from MFD to infinity range vs turning degree).

There are other lens I have seen/used having smooth...Show more →

Hi Michael,

I believe that my R 50mm Summicronn is pretty good for Bokeh evn when stopped down and it is quite sharp especially stopped down as can be seen the following on my tripod mounted A7r at about f8. First image near minimum focus. The other 2 images are at 100%,

Rich

100% crop of previous image

100% Crop of 1st image

Dec 14, 2015 at 01:41 PM

nehemiahphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

wayne seltzer wrote:
Last N85 dog shot is excellent. Hope you get your Fringer adapter mess sorted out soon and keep the N85!

Do you still have the ZA 135? Such a great portrait lens too with great bokeh.

Thanks Wayne

I have owned the ZA 135 three times; but because of the size, weight, and FL, I found I'd constantly reach for my Mino 58 1.2 or whatever fast 85 I had at the time instead. The IQ is gorgeous though, I like the rendering style very much. I loved that lens in my a900. I had a back surgery and I can't carry any gear really, so the big bodies and 2.8 zooms were all sold.

I am curious how then CV 125 stacks up against either the ZA or ZF 135 at similar distances and apertures.

Dec 14, 2015 at 02:02 PM

JohnJ
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

The 75-90mm focal length range is my favourite and this is where I concentrate my interest. There are way too many interesting lenses in this area and often the most interesting ones, for pictorial effect, are the cheapest. The $15 dollar 3.5/75 (often 3 element) enlarging lenses come to mind with their overcorrected SA and swirl. Of course these are not suitable for everything, that's why there are $5000 dollar lenses in this focal length too.

I like the Mamiya (M645) 1.9/80 a hell of a lot, with all it's faults. It's a great lens for pictorial effect, overcorrected SA, but sharp wide open.

As much as I do use my R80, for portrait/people and general photography, I'm a firm believer that there is no single ideal lens, just ones that you like best on the day or for a particular purpose.

Dec 14, 2015 at 02:23 PM

Jeremy Reitman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

Love my FD 85L on my x-t1. One of the best lenses I have. A friend who wasn't using it anymore gave it to me, so the price was right for sure.

Dec 14, 2015 at 04:16 PM

nehemiahphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

John, would you mind to show some examples of 80/1.9 WO? I would love to see the drawing style in the field.

Dec 14, 2015 at 10:45 PM

JohnJ
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

nehemiahphoto wrote:
John, would you mind to show some examples of 80/1.9 WO? I would love to see the drawing style in the field.

PM sent

Dec 15, 2015 at 07:08 AM

wayne seltzer
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

Yes, and if you like swirly bokeh there is always the 75 Biotar.

Definitely has character and is fun to shoot.

Dec 15, 2015 at 12:13 PM

Gunzorro
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

Thanks for the comparisons! Very interesting seeing how the brands and production eras compare. I'm not an 85mm guy, but the IQ is great to see. I liked the Minolta's close focusing, that's a main gripe of mine about most 85s I've tried, including the Samyang and the Canon EF 85L II -- I wish they focused about a foot closer.

Thanks for providing such terrific images and encouraging the member's dialog here.

I currently own the Samyang, M645 80/4 macro and 90/2.8 TSE which cover the bases for me, when needed.

Dec 15, 2015 at 12:48 PM

nehemiahphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

I recall seeing some early shots of the Batis 85 with hints of swirl in the bokeh--but it was a smaller amount than the 75 Biotar, so it wasn't as attention seeking

I think it was a post over at dpreview. I liked it, and I like the Batis has some personality with it’s bokeh. Jordan had a great shot with a dragonfly that exhibited the more dramatic batis bokeh (I think on the FE thread).

The concept of dimensionality in photos is interesting to me, and something I considered and sought while trying many 85’s. After some consideration (and lots of shooting), I decided the bokeh of lenses like the ZA 85 or 85L are too smooth, too abstracted for my taste. Ironically, the high sharpness of those lenses (especially the ZA) and rapid fall off due to the moderately long FL, large aperture and specifics of the lens make photos appear more “3-D.” But this aesthetic feels flatter/less rich/dimensional to me, like someone pasted the subject on a colorful background. The ZF/CY 100’s are other examples of extreme pop, or the 2 planes/1 photo trick.

However, a lens like the N85 excels at giving significant dimensionality and by it’s less abstracted bokeh and more gradual and smoother transitions, along with the delicacy in the shadows and highlights. I feel this becomes especially apparent when shooting within 3-9 feet away from subject at large apertures. I feel the 35 correlative to the N85 is the RX1, and that these lens are quite special in this regard. I loved the RX1 sonnar (except that it’s 35mm, not 28mm L ), and I was immediately reminded of the it while shooting the N85. I'd be curious others to chime in--I am just trying to figure this out.

If I get time, I’d like to test this analytically to add my results to this thread. Here though is what I mean, with just some real photos as I see it. (Dogs of course!)

All WO, all shots are eye focused, and all are between 4-8 feet away. Note how the DOF is more on the N85 it seems to me, and it's the only photo with any shape in the bokeh in the background.

ZA 85

FD 85L

ZA 85

N85

Dec 15, 2015 at 07:42 PM

Atlasman2
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

nehemiahphoto wrote:

All WO, all shots are eye focused, and all are between 4-8 feet away. Note how the DOF is more on the N85 it seems to me, and it's the only photo with any shape in the bokeh in the background.

Here's a shot with the 85L, WO and about the 4-8 feet distance. How would you rate it in terms of background shape?

Dec 16, 2015 at 07:59 AM

Atlasman2
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

nehemiahphoto wrote:
The concept of dimensionality in photos is interesting to me, and something I considered and sought while trying many 85’s. After some consideration (and lots of shooting), I decided the bokeh of lenses like the ZA 85 or 85L are too smooth, too abstracted for my taste.

If you loose the smoothness at the short focus distance, what happens to the background at the longer distances?

I like the smooth background of this shot. Again FDn 85L at f1.2.

Dec 16, 2015 at 08:23 AM

Atlasman2
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

Here's another with the 85L at f1.2. The distance is about 10 feet. As can be seen, the background blur has started to take on that nervous look.

So isn't it also a value to have that smooth blur?

Dec 16, 2015 at 08:29 AM

wayne seltzer
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

Nehemiah,

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.zeiss.com/content/dam/Photography/new/pdf/en/cln_archiv/cln35_en_web_special_bokeh.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjB0Mv1xeDJAhVO-mMKHfhzAygQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNGfgeu7th0ZZYfi8kZSHZq0lR5oLw

This is an excellent white paper from Dr. Nasse of Zeiss on bokeh. It talks about the ZE/ZF 35/1.4 design and it's goal of bokeh which retained shapes of objects not in the focus plane rather than turning them into mushy blobs. CY 35/1.4 is another special Zeiss bokeh lens which has a lot of 3d like CY 100/2 planar. I have both. They have really fast transitions to out of focus, which Zeiss no longer likes to do in its recent designs which have slow,smooth focus transitions.

Dec 16, 2015 at 08:59 AM

phuang3
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

For your reference, here are some samples from Mitakon [email protected]. I found this lens is a very good performer at any distance. Optical construction is unknown, but I heard there are 9 elements without aspherics.

At MFD
http://kspqm.kymco.com/ckfinder/resource/johnny/image/mitakon-food-l.jpg

Crop
http://kspqm.kymco.com/ckfinder/resource/johnny/image/mitakon-food-s.jpg

Close to MFD
http://kspqm.kymco.com/ckfinder/resource/johnny/image/mitakon-cabbage-l.jpg

Crop. There is almost absence of veiling glare on highlights.
http://kspqm.kymco.com/ckfinder/resource/johnny/image/mitakon-cabbage-s.jpg

Dec 16, 2015 at 09:46 AM

nehemiahphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

wayne seltzer wrote:
Nehemiah,

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.zeiss.com/content/dam/Photography/new/pdf/en/cln_archiv/cln35_en_web_special_bokeh.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjB0Mv1xeDJAhVO-mMKHfhzAygQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNGfgeu7th0ZZYfi8kZSHZq0lR5oLw

This is an excellent white paper from Dr. Nasse of Zeiss on bokeh. It talks about the ZE/ZF 35/1.4 design and it's goal of bokeh which retained shapes of objects not in the focus plane rather than turning them into mushy blobs. CY 35/1.4 is another special Zeiss bokeh lens which has a lot of 3d like CY 100/2 planar. I have both. They have really fast transitions to out of focus, which Zeiss no longer likes to do in its recent designs which have slow,smooth focus transitions.

This is great. Thanks Wayne.

Dec 16, 2015 at 07:45 PM

nehemiahphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

Atlasman2 wrote:
Here's another with the 85L at f1.2. The distance is about 10 feet. As can be seen, the background blur has started to take on that nervous look.

So isn't it also a value to have that smooth blur?

Yes, it always better to have smooth bokeh rather than nervous

But if I could have it my way, I like a little more structure to my bokeh. Again though, it's a taste issue. The bokeh is very smooth on that first shot. Thanks for posting the examples.

Dec 16, 2015 at 07:47 PM

nehemiahphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

phuang3 wrote:
For your reference, here are some samples from Mitakon [email protected]. I found this lens is a very good performer at any distance. Optical construction is unknown, but I heard there are 9 elements without aspherics.

At MFD
http://kspqm.kymco.com/ckfinder/resource/johnny/image/mitakon-food-l.jpg

Crop
http://kspqm.kymco.com/ckfinder/resource/johnny/image/mitakon-food-s.jpg

Close to MFD
http://kspqm.kymco.com/ckfinder/resource/johnny/image/mitakon-cabbage-l.jpg

Crop. There is almost absence of veiling glare on highlights.
http://kspqm.kymco.com/ckfinder/resource/johnny/image/mitakon-cabbage-s.jpg

Thanks for posting these. I have been curious about the new Mitakon, hopefully I can get my hands on it sometime. Looks good though!

Dec 16, 2015 at 07:48 PM

Atlasman2
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · legendary 85 shoot out! Minolta 85 1.4 Limited, Contax N 85, Canon FD 85L, Leica R 80

nehemiahphoto wrote:
Yes, it always better to have smooth bokeh rather than nervous

But if I could have it my way, I like a little more structure to my bokeh. Again though, it's a taste issue. The bokeh is very smooth on that first shot. Thanks for posting the examples.

Thanks for starting such an interesting thread!

Dec 17, 2015 at 08:14 AM

1 2 3 4 5 6 end
FM Forums \| Leica & Alternative Gear \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 4 5 6 end

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.