Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1 2 3 … 6

end

Archive 2015 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory He...

mdemeyer
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

A1M1 is where I ended up for the AWB trim with the v2 glass, also. I expect v3 to be very similar.

Michael

Feb 14, 2016 at 07:13 PM

uhoh7
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

JaKo wrote:
Charlie,

Based on your Flickr samples between M9 and A7mod v3 I would suggest to alter white balance setting in your camera menu. Start with shifting it to A1-M1, take few test shots at f/5.6-8 along with M9, compare and adjust farther if needed.

TY so much JaKo

I've decided to go with the v2

Feb 14, 2016 at 10:57 PM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

uhoh7 wrote:
TY so much JaKo

I've decided to go with the v2

Hi Charlie,

Beside the color rendering before we have been able to get a new color profile and WB, why have you decided to go with V2 especially since you have been comparing V1 with V3?

I still want to compare my V3 with Mike's V2 cameras/sensors for reflection which I should do a little later in the week after it warms up (and it isn't snowing or raining}.

I don't believe that any of us have enough information at this point as to which is actually better (V2 or V3). Without the proper color profile and WB how can any of us make an informed decision?

Though V2 may be closer to V1 than V3, for both color Profile and WB, I am not sure how you are making your decision. You may still be disappointed with V2 before you get the proper color profile and WB. Perhaps you think that this is the easier way in this case deciding on what we already know from other and later upgrades from V1 to V2 and not what is the potential improvement with V3.

I know that I want to see my results from the reflection comparisons between my V3 and Mike's V2 camerass/sensors as well as Michael's initial impressions/assessment and his final adjustmenst for Color Profile and WB.

Rich

Feb 15, 2016 at 12:21 AM

uhoh7
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Hi Rich,

I need my camera soon for several events, and I feel v2 is a proven mod. My premlimary research on AR coating suggested such an extreme variation in ray angle could be an issue. That and my test shooting...well put it this way: I preferred the v1 in all respects. But where the subjective and objective aspects of that opinion end and begin...well you know with a camera it's often quite personal.

You may be right, after some tweaks the v3 might be fine. Kolari has been very nice about swapping it out for me

Great support.

Feb 16, 2016 at 12:22 AM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

I know that many are interested in the comparisons in the reflections observed between the V3 and the V2 Kolari Thin Sensor Modifications. After getting through the extreme cold, rain, and overcast conditions, I ran a quick test comparing my V3 A7rM camera and Mike's V2 A7rM camera. The tests were using the sun as a target with my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM set to f11.

The first image is with my A7rM and my 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and the second image is with Mike's A7rM and the same lens.

Unfortunately, there was a little time between both images and though both cameras are on L brackets (different makers) the sun and the compostion do not match up quite as well as I might like.

However, I believe that the V3 may have a little better control over the reflections to the sun. But, I will leave this to your conclusions.

Rich

Rich's A7rM Zeiss 35mm Distagon ISO 100 f11 1/1600 Second

Mike's A7rM Zeiss 35mm Distagon ISO f11 1/1600 Second

Feb 20, 2016 at 04:05 PM

mdemeyer
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

naturephoto1 wrote:
I know that many are interested in the comparisons in the reflections observed between the V3 and the V2 Kolari Thin Sensor Modifications. After getting through the extreme cold, rain, and overcast conditions, I ran a quick test comparing my V3 A7rM camera and Mike's V2 A7rM camera. The tests were using the sun as a target with my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM set to f11.

The first image is with my A7rM and my 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and the second image is with Mike's A7rM and the same lens.

Unfortunately, there was a little time between both images...Show more →

Rich,

The sensor reflections are most troublesome off-axis and with point light sources against a darker background. Here you have so much flare from the lens and are reasonably on-axis, so it's not a case where I would expect to see too much issue. Hard to say if what you have here is lens flare or sensor reflections but, in my experience, sensor reflections are always away from the center of the image, so I think you are seeing flare in the lens.

I have plenty of cases where it shows - mostly lights in otherwise dark interiors, but don't have upload privileges here. When I get my camera updated to v3 I can post before and after examples on the Flickr group that hosts Kolari-modified images.

Michael

Feb 20, 2016 at 06:13 PM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

mdemeyer wrote:
Rich,

The sensor reflections are most troublesome off-axis and with point light sources against a darker background. Here you have so much flare from the lens and are reasonably on-axis, so it's not a case where I would expect to see too much issue. Hard to say if what you have here is lens flare or sensor reflections but, in my experience, sensor reflections are always away from the center of the image, so I think you are seeing flare in the lens.

I have plenty of cases where it shows, but don't have upload privileges here. When I get my camera...Show more →

Hi Michael,

I will try to run some additional tests. But, as I recall, the A7r was not as bad as with the A7. Regarldess, in my test above, I believe that the V3 appears to deal with the lens flare and sensor reflection a little/bit better than the V2.

Rich

Edited on Feb 20, 2016 at 10:52 PM · View previous versions

Feb 20, 2016 at 06:18 PM

mcbroomf
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Rich, I agree with Michael. Shots with perhaps street lamps in the corner or on the long edge are what's needed to see if the new ARC is any better.

Feb 20, 2016 at 08:37 PM

JimBuchanan
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

naturephoto1 wrote:
I know that many are interested in the comparisons in the reflections observed between the V3 and the V2 Kolari Thin Sensor Modifications ..... The tests were using the sun as a target with my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM set to f11.
Rich

I'm wondering why your tests and example shots always seem to use an extreme stopdown of f/11 or more? With these current Sony sensors and modern lenses, optimum image quality is at most 3-4 stops down from max. Any thing greater is into diffraction. You, as a long time Leica R user with some of the latest examples and user of some of the latest M examples should know that. What gives?

Feb 21, 2016 at 12:39 AM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

JimBuchanan wrote:
I'm wondering why your tests and example shots always seem to use an extreme stopdown of f/11 or more? With these current Sony sensors and modern lenses, optimum image quality is at most 3-4 stops down from max. Any thing greater is into diffraction. You, as a long time Leica R user with some of the latest examples and user of some of the latest M examples should know that. What gives?

Hi Jim,

I have been using such small apertures for several reasons. The first reason is becuase for most or many landscapes we want to hold focus from near to far and require f8 or f11. In the case of the 35mm lens for landscapes f11 would not be that uncomnon an aperture to hold focus from near to far. Also, in the case of the star affects f8 or in many cases f11 will demonstrate this more than larger apertures.

Rich

Feb 21, 2016 at 12:46 AM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

OK, so since Michael and Mike wanted images with off axis light sources and Mike suggested a street lamp in the corner I went back and took some photos for comparison. The first 2 images compare my V3 A7rM and Mike's V2 A7rM with my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 ZM lens set again to f11 in particular to get excellent aster stars from the street lamps and light sources and reflections. Both cameras were set to ISO 400 for 25 seconds.

The second 2 images compare my V3 A7rM and Mike's V2 A7rM as 100% crops in from the corners but still off axis so that you are able to see the affects of the reflections from different street lanps and reflections.

Rich

Rich's A7rM Zeiss 35mm Distagon ISO 400 f11 25 seconds

Mike's A7rM Zeiss 35mm Distagon ISO 400 f11 25 seconds

Rich's A7rM Zeiss 35mm Distagon ISO 400 f11 25 seconds 100% Crop

Mike's A7rM Zeiss 35mm Distagon ISO 400 f11 25 seconds 100% Crop

Feb 21, 2016 at 01:00 AM

mcbroomf
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Uggh!

Not much better that I can see. The colour is a little different in the flare on the left side in the crops (green vs purple), but the big flare on the top 2 photos suggests to me that the AR coating isn't doing much.

Feb 21, 2016 at 05:31 AM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

mcbroomf wrote:
Uggh!

Not much better that I can see. The colour is a little different in the flare on the left side in the crops (green vs purple), but the big flare on the top 2 photos suggests to me that the AR coating isn't doing much.

Hi Mike,

The AR coatings do a little on the street lamp at the upper left. However, look at the the house on the left side in the 100% crop. Here you see multiple green spots from your camera and what appears to be only one smaller purple one from mine. So, unless I am mistaken, the V3 sensor cover appears to be slightly better at least in some local areas than the V2 senosr cover.

As to the reflection issue, I am not sure what camera would be capable of eliminating the affects in the upper left corner of the last set of test images. Maybe the A7rII and possibly the A7II could do a better job. But, I do not have those or other cameras available for such tests.

I do wonder if the initital problems that we saw with my camera when I had the V2 sensor cover and before we discovered the misalignment of my camera sensor would have been nearly as bad as what can be seen in the 3 images that I have included below.

I know that you and many of us are somewhat diappointed that there may only be a slight improvement in the reflections with the V3 senosr cover than the V2. But, I believe that the V3 senosor cover is somewhat more neutral in its rendering of color than the V2 senosor cover.

Rich

Rich's A7rM V2 Zeiss 35mm Distagon Before we knew the senosr was misaligned

Rich's A7rM V2 Zeiss 35mm Distagon Upper Center Before we knew the sensor was misaligned

Rich's A7rM V2 Zeiss 35mm Distagon Upper right cover Before we knew the sensor was misaligned

Feb 21, 2016 at 07:32 AM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Mike Broomfield brought to my attention the Capture One Sony Express and Captuer One Pro for Sony and that one of these may allow for correction for the problems due to the WA RF lenses on my A7rM. I received confirmation today from Phase One that I would need Capture One Pro for Sony to create LCCs. I am now considering going this route and quite possibly getting this diffuser to make all of my correction files:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1092940-REG/mamiya_40101998_diffuser_100x100.html

Has anyone used Capture One Pro for Sony for the correction for WA RF lenses on your A7rM camera rather than going the Adobe DNG Flat Field Plug-in route? If so, which system do you find better and earier to use/more efficient? I am not so happy about going through the DNG conversions in the Adobe method.

Also has anyone used the Mamiya Leaf Calibration Diffuser and have you found it a valuable tool for this application? It you have the Diffuser do you know if it comes with a case to protect it. It is presently out of stock at B&H, but I think that I will order it once it is back in stock.

Any comments and suggestions are most appreciated at this point. I would really like to get my A7rM V3 system with my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and my Leica 24mm f3.8 Asph lenses up and running shortly and as painlessly as possible.

Thanks.

Rich

Feb 24, 2016 at 09:45 PM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

After giving this more thought, I am not sure if using Capture One Pro for Sony would really work that well for me and if there may be other problems with which to deal. I presume that since Capture One Pro for Sony would be a stripped down version of Capture One Pro V9, that it would probably only include (if it does) correction only for Sony and Zeiss lenses. Since I am using Leica R, Leica M, and a Zeiss ZM lens, these corrections may not be available in t Capture One Pro for Sony.

If the lens corrections for my lenses may not be included in the Captrue One Pro for Sony, I am not sure if it would be possible or what would happen to the TIFF files prepared in Capture One and then brought into Lightroom 6 to take advantage of the the lens corrections for my lenses. And if the files were then imported into Lightroom what if any affect would Lightroom have on the color and and any of the work prepared in Capture One.

Then as using Lightroom, the final TIFF files would be brought into Photoshop CS6 for sizing and adding my copyright notice.

Now I am wondering weather it may be better to go through the porcess of DNG conversion of my A7rM RAW files and just live with this option and then using these prepared files in LR6.

As to the Mamiya Leaf Calibration Diffuser, I believe that it would have basically have the same application whether it was used either with Capture One Pro or with Lightroom.

Again, any comments and suggestions are most welcome.

Rich

Feb 25, 2016 at 07:08 AM

JaKo
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

naturephoto1 wrote:
After giving this more thought, I am not sure if using Capture One Pro for Sony would really work that well for me and if there may be other problems with which to deal. I presume that since Capture One Pro for Sony would be a stripped down version of Capture One Pro V9, that it would probably only include (if it does) correction only for Sony and Zeiss lenses. Since I am using Leica R, Leica M, and a Zeiss ZM lens, these corrections may not be available in t Capture One Pro for Sony.

If the lens corrections for...Show more →

Rich,

Please download and install CornerFix instead.

Below are links to CornerFix lens profiles for Zeiss ZM35D and Leica SEM21, which should work fine for your Leica 24mm f3.8 Asph.
Please make sure to set luminance=10 or less and chroma=80 in CF Image Correction Option. Edit it as desired; lower values for ZM 35 lens.

ZM35 profiles
SEM21 profiles

Feb 25, 2016 at 03:27 PM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

JaKo wrote:
Rich,

Please download and install CornerFix instead.

Below are links to CornerFix lens profiles for Zeiss ZM35D and Leica SEM21, which should work fine for your Leica 24mm f3.8 Asph.
Please make sure to set luminance=10 or less and chroma=80 in CF Image Correction Option. Edit it as desired; lower values for ZM 35 lens.

ZM35 profiles
SEM21 profiles

Hi Jack,

Thanks very much this was most helpful. I did have to go a little past what you suggested for Chroma for the Leica M 24mm f3.8 Asph lens. Also, no matter what I did for the 24mm lens I still had just a touch of purple in the edge in the snow in the lower right and a little in the snow in the lower left. But, for both lenses the left side of the images showed much more intense color and purtple than the right side. This must have been the lighting conditions. But, the results are certainly more usable with Corner Fix than without and I could probably do the last bit of adjustments in other ways. I will use your profiles and Corner Fix in the future for these lenses. I still need to get the WB and color profiles resolved for my A7rM V3 camera.

Below are the comparisons of my A7rM camera with my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and my Leica 24mm f3.8 Asph lenses prepared as pairs with the first without Corner Fix and the second using Corner Fix. I think that you will agree about the improvement.

Thanks again for the help. This makes the lenses very useful now though they will require a little more work for working in LR6 to get them to a more final form with my A7rM.

Rich

Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM No Corner Fix

Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM With Corner Fix

Leica 24mm f3.8 Asph No Corner Fix

Leica 24mm f3.8 Asph With Corner Fix

Feb 26, 2016 at 08:11 AM

JaKo
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Rich, you may also try to slightly reduce vignetting when processing files in Adobe Raw Converter. This should further 'improve' extreme corners.

Feb 26, 2016 at 12:25 PM

naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

JaKo wrote:
Rich, you may also try to slightly reduce vignetting when processing files in Adobe Raw Converter. This should further 'improve' extreme corners.

Hi Jack,

Thank you. I presume that I can do that in Lightroom as I have in the past as well. My intent is/was to bring the Corner Fix files back into LR and to continue to work on the files including the vignetting.

Rich

Feb 26, 2016 at 01:03 PM

JaKo
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Rich,
Yes, similarly I import ARW files using Adobe Bridge/Camera RAW, save them as DNG without editing, 'clean' with CornerFix then process again in Adobe Camera RAW. I guess it should work the same in LR.

Your examples with snow and white clouds in all corners may be as difficult to clean as it gets, but clearly your edits are much better then the originals. Experiment with chroma settings in CF + vignetting and I am sure you'll get satisfying results.

Cheers,
Jack

Feb 26, 2016 at 02:16 PM

1 2 3 … 6 7 end
FM Forums \| Leica & Alternative Gear \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 … 6 7 end

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.