p.9 #1 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
The Kolari modification is interesting.
What would the result be in IQ if the filter would be removed totally?
All lenses should become a band pass filter. That is expensive, ok. A sunshade is a must in that case.
Dust would be sharper visible in the picture, ok.
But it would simulate the film situation better and the lenses discussed here were for film.
Would a large filter in front of the lens be better than a small in front of the sensor?
Jan
p.9 #2 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
jankap wrote:
The Kolari modification is interesting.
What would the result be in IQ if the filter would be removed totally?
All lenses should become a band pass filter. That is expensive, ok. A sunshade is a must in that case.
Dust would be sharper visible in the picture, ok.
But it would simulate the film situation better and the lenses discussed here were for film.
Would a large filter in front of the lens be better than a small in front of the sensor?
Jan
Pretty much you're talking about full-spectrum conversion without clear glass replacement. You still want a thin piece of glass to cover the sensor so the sensor doesn't come to direct contact with any element.
I think Toothwalker said that any glass in front of the lens has much less effect on this whole smearing deal than the glass in the on the sensor.
Anyway, with full-spectrum, you have to constantly fiddle with filters unless you install a good UV/IR filter on all of your lenses. Being a ND and CPL filter user, it's not as good of an idea for me. The best way right now, to me, is to remove the clear cover glass in front of the sensor and glue the thin filter directly on the sensor. But removing this clear cover glass is a very invasive procedure that you can run into the chance of ruining the sensor. I guess that's why Ilija doesn't attempt to do it.
p.9 #3 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
hiepphotog wrote:
Pretty much you're talking about full-spectrum conversion without clear glass replacement. You still want a thin piece of glass to cover the sensor so the sensor doesn't come to direct contact with any element.
I think Toothwalker said that any glass in front of the lens has much less effect on this whole smearing deal than the glass in the on the sensor.
Anyway, with full-spectrum, you have to constantly fiddle with filters unless you install a good UV/IR filter on all of your lenses.
Thanks!
Interesting is Toothwalker´s statement, that the IQ is better. I´ll look for those posts.
Filters are expensive, but the Leica SL is far more expensive and we want to short-circuit the SL, isn´t it.
And we want to achieve the best possible IQ with Sony equipment.
Imagine the durance of the economical lifecycle of Sony equipment.
This thread is very interesting.
Jan
p.9 #4 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
Good stuff on the last several pages
The AA filter may not come off the A7r, but it does come off the A7 The A7 does not cast color anywhere near the A7r, either.
So this may explain my own delight at my A7.mod which becomes in effect the poor mans's SL, but smaller, without the great EVF
I swapped my A7r for the A7 the the fall of 2013 partly because of the colorcast issues, and I'm very glad I did in retrospect. I never have to use corner fix or the LR plugin for my wide M glass, though I know some lenses would need it. ZM18, SEM21 and 28 cron do not, nor the ZM 35/2, which casts some color on the M9. At least not yet in my experience.
So for a user who just wants a nice usable FF M body at a reasonable price, the A7 for 600USD used + the mod, well it's good value and very good performance.
p.9 #5 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
A bit of a belated thank you to Hiep and k-h.a.w. for the testing that they did. I have not been following this thread since I sold my Leica 24 3.8, 90 Elmarit and sony a7.
I did a hiking trip with this combo and was amazed at the DR and size of the A7, but knew that the A7Rii was coming out a few months later and wanted to have some resale on an almost new body. The trip did prove to me though that the A7 cameras would be a good replacement for my 5dii for this type of photography.
I wondered if Hiep and or any others are planning on running any testing on the Loxia 21 vs Leica SEM 21 and Zeiss ZM 21 on modded and un-modded cameras? That is when the becomes available.
p.9 #6 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
hiepphotog wrote:
Bettlephoto, before I bought my ZM 35/1.4, I asked Gregg (Greggf) to send me a WO shot of the ZM 35/1.4 on his A7R.Mod. It's pretty much what you see on other modded A7. And we have tested on the A7R.Mod, A7S.Mod, and A7RII.Mod . I can send you a full-res JPEG at WO. Just PM me where to.
By the way, Rich (naturephoto) told me that the lens has some cyan color cast on the A7R.Mod.
---------------------------------------------
Rusty, the mod would completely eliminate the induced field curvature on some lenses (check my tests for the lenses that I didn't post corner focus) or largely reduce that FC that you can get sharp image at its peak aperture (f/5.6 or f/8). Furthermore, like I said before, the reduction in field curvature is real that the mere act of removing of an AA filter would not have the same effect.
The ZM 15 is more of a special case, borderline at usable. However, this lens has the highest central to about 2/3 resolution 15mm out there (beats the ZF/ZE 15). Stopping down would remedy that edge. The corners, however, remain okay to me. The WATE 16 is better at the corner portions, going past the long edge. But even the WATE at f/8, its center can't match the WO center of the ZM. With all that said, I have seen corners from the Canon 16-35/2.8 II, 16-35/4, and the new 11-24/4. They all have weaker corners than the ZM. Don't know about the Nikon 14-24 since I heard its corners still remain the best of all UWA. The WATE might be as good.
With all that said, if Zeiss comes out with a Loxia 15/2.8 that is similar sized to the ZM and they fix that field curvature, and more important, the astigmatism of the original ZM 15, I would drop everything to get . For now, the ZM 15 is still the highest performing 15 to me. The size and weight are just icing on the cake....Show more →
Hi Heip,
I indicated that I was seeing magenta in the corners with my A7rM and my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM lens, not cyan.
p.9 #7 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
Magenta cast is indeed slightly visible (back light dependent) on A7R/MOD with ZM35D shot WO.
This is a non issues on stock Sony A7RM2. Modded thin(er) 8mm cover may add IR cast that could be perceived as magenta.
Let the owners of modded A7RM2 comment on this.
JaKo wrote:
Magenta cast is indeed slightly visible (back light dependent) on A7R/MOD with ZM35D shot WO.
This is a non issues on stock Sony A7RM2. Modded thin(er) 8mm cover may add IR cast that could be perceived as magenta.
Let the owners of modded A7RM2 comment on this.
Jack, I'm not familiar with IR cast. I still have the loaner A7RII from Kolari and I don't think I have seen any troublesome cast on the ZM 35/1.4.
p.9 #9 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
Hiep, I am referring to magenta-like colour artifacts possibly caused by IR sensitivity/thin sensor stack on Kolari modified A7x bodies when shooting black textiles or similar. Thinning sensor stack to M8/M9 size seems to have similar disadvantages.
I have been using Kolari mod for over 10 months and in the past 3 months I shot few identical scenes on modded A7R and stock A7RM2. I did notice that occasionally colours looked kind of funny, washed out, on magenta side when shooting black fabrics on modded camera. Not so on stock A7RM2, not even with the same lens and not in peripherals of a frame.
I do believe it's related to sensor stack modification rather than camera colour profile. No biggie, but noticeable on some occasions.
If you still have modded and stock bodies available maybe you can take few test shots without UV/IR filters to test it.
p.9 #10 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
JaKo wrote:
Hiep, I am referring to magenta-like colour artifacts possibly caused by IR sensitivity/thin sensor stack on Kolari modified A7x bodies when shooting black textiles or similar. Thinning sensor stack to M8/M9 size seems to have similar disadvantages.
I have been using Kolari mod for over 10 months and in the past 3 months I shot few identical scenes on modded A7R and stock A7RM2. I did notice that occasionally colours looked kind of funny, washed out, on magenta side when shooting black fabrics on modded camera. Not so on stock A7RM2, not even with the same lens and not in peripherals of a frame.
I do believe it's related to sensor stack modification rather than camera colour profile. No biggie, but noticeable on some occasions.
If you still have modded and stock bodies available maybe you can take few test shots without UV/IR filters to test it....Show more →
I can try. I'm going to do a second round of testing soon, comparing the stock and modded A7RII and the M9.
IR contamination is not that high on my list. I did take pictures of one of my camera bags recently for eBay sale, and I don't see anything wrong with the black.
p.9 #11 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
karlfoto wrote:
A bit of a belated thank you to Hiep and k-h.a.w. for the testing that they did. I have not been following this thread since I sold my Leica 24 3.8, 90 Elmarit and sony a7.
I did a hiking trip with this combo and was amazed at the DR and size of the A7, but knew that the A7Rii was coming out a few months later and wanted to have some resale on an almost new body. The trip did prove to me though that the A7 cameras would be a good replacement for my 5dii for this type of photography.
I wondered if Hiep and or any others are planning on running any testing on the Loxia 21 vs Leica SEM 21 and Zeiss ZM 21 on modded and un-modded cameras? That is when the becomes available. ...Show more →
You're welcome Karl. I would love to do that comparison if I could, but I'm not interested in any of those lenses. I definitely can meet up with anyone with the intention to do the comparison though .
p.9 #12 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
hiepphotog wrote:
Anyway, with full-spectrum, you have to constantly fiddle with filters unless you install a good UV/IR filter on all of your lenses. .....
Another beginner question.
I suppose, that Sony APS-C cameras also have a thick sensor glass.
Suppose one takes an lens booster to fill out an APS-C sensor with a FF lens. The booster artificially concentrates the wide light beam on the smaller sensor. Could this give a similar performance as the Solari modification?
More glass between subject and sensor is bad, OK.
Jan
Sorry, boosters do not work for rangefinder lenses, I forgot that.
p.9 #13 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
My A7 is just back with the latest thin filter from Kolari (Feb 2016)
My v1 from 2015 did develop a corrosion spot a la M9 and Kolari was very fast about replacing it for free
I've only had it a day, but I decided to compare 28 cron M9 vs this A7.mod
I will cut to the crux and then link to an album where you can see multiple apertures. The M9 gets into serious landscape performance with the 28 cron at 5.6.
The latest comparisons were compared and posted late yesterday afternoon.
In the case of the A7r cameras however, regardless of Kolari Thin Sensor modification at tleast with my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZF and my Leica 24mm f3.8 Elmar Asph we are still seeing the purple corners and purple edges that need to be dealt with either through Corner Fix or the Adobe Flat Field DNG plug in. Additionally, at least in most or all of my tests, the purple corners and edges appear to be more prominent in the V3.
I still need to run more tests under different lighting conditions between my V3 and Mike's V2 mod and to also try to test for the differences noted for reflections in both mods.
p.9 #16 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
mcbroomf wrote:
Looks like the Leica is still ahead at wider apertures. Very close by F8. What's with the different colour per aperture with the Sony??
Even the original mod hated the adobe profile, for some reason. I may have changed the profile on one or more of the samples in the album, but to clear things up:
p.9 #17 · Kolari Mod's Improvements: A Summary of Tests
See other thread for Rich's update on the v2 and v3 color mystery. White balance trim on the v3 camera was tweaked, so difference was "as designed". :-)
I've added F 4, 5.6 8 and 11 with SEM 21 on both M9 and A7.mod v3 to album which I linked to above
Comments welcome here. How does the mod compare to your eye?
PS a note on focus. M9 is at infinity stop. On A7.mod I did my best, but critical focus on UWA is hard to confirm in the EVF. So let me know if you think I missed it.
I've added F 4, 5.6 8 and 11 with SEM 21 on both M9 and A7.mod v3 to album which I linked to above
Comments welcome here. How does the mod compare to your eye?
PS a note on focus. M9 is at infinity stop. On A7.mod I did my best, but critical focus on UWA is hard to confirm in the EVF. So let me know if you think I missed it.
close enough for me, but you know i'm not that picky.
i might try focusing the on the corner or midzone on the a7 to see if that gives you any improvement.
. I can send you a full-res JPEG at WO. Just PM me where to.
