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Archive 2015Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
p.41 #1Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I sent my decentered copy back for a refund, because the store had no idea when they'd receive new stock. Surprisingly they gave me a call that a backordered copy arrived so all of a sudden I could exchange mine after all.
Well... this new copy is again decentered!
I've bought so many Zeiss lenses and only once I got a decentered one (21/2.8 ZE). Now I got 2 bad 21 Loxia's in a row. This destroys the confidence (compared to some other brands) I had in Zeiss.
Well... this new copy is again decentered!
I've bought so many Zeiss lenses and only once I got a decentered one (21/2.8 ZE). Now I got 2 bad 21 Loxia's in a row. This destroys the confidence (compared to some other brands) I had in Zeiss.
Feb 20, 2016 at 08:35 AM
p.41 #2Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jochenb wrote:
I sent my decentered copy back for a refund, because the store had no idea when they'd receive new stock. Surprisingly they gave me a call that a backordered copy arrived so all of a sudden I could exchange mine after all.
Well... this new copy is again decentered!
I've bought so many Zeiss lenses and only once I got a decentered one (21/2.8 ZE). Now I got 2 bad 21 Loxia's in a row. This destroys the confidence (compared to some other brands) I had in Zeiss.
This is why I have sent mine back to be adjusted rather than taking a punt on another copy.
I sent my decentered copy back for a refund, because the store had no idea when they'd receive new stock. Surprisingly they gave me a call that a backordered copy arrived so all of a sudden I could exchange mine after all.
Well... this new copy is again decentered!
I've bought so many Zeiss lenses and only once I got a decentered one (21/2.8 ZE). Now I got 2 bad 21 Loxia's in a row. This destroys the confidence (compared to some other brands) I had in Zeiss.
This is why I have sent mine back to be adjusted rather than taking a punt on another copy.
Feb 20, 2016 at 08:59 AM
p.41 #3Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Viramati wrote:
Well... this new copy is again decentered!
I've bought so many Zeiss lenses and only once I got a decentered one (21/2.8 ZE). Now I got 2 bad 21 Loxia's in a row. This destroys the confidence (compared to some other brands) I had in Zeiss.This is why I have sent mine back to be adjusted rather than taking a punt on another copy.
I understand, but because I almost always got good copies from Zeiss in the past I thought I was just unlucky with my first Loxia.
Jochenb wrote
I sent my decentered copy back for a refund, because the store had no idea when they'd receive new stock. Surprisingly they gave me a call that a backordered copy arrived so all of a sudden I could exchange mine after all.Well... this new copy is again decentered!
I've bought so many Zeiss lenses and only once I got a decentered one (21/2.8 ZE). Now I got 2 bad 21 Loxia's in a row. This destroys the confidence (compared to some other brands) I had in Zeiss.
I understand, but because I almost always got good copies from Zeiss in the past I thought I was just unlucky with my first Loxia.
Feb 20, 2016 at 09:01 AM
p.41 #4Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
This stuff is getting really old. Sorry to hear of all this.
Feb 20, 2016 at 09:13 AM
p.41 #5Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I'm sorry if my nagging about it annoys anyone. I just think it's always good to mention it when you get one or multiple decentered copies. Just to have an idea how often it happens in general for each lens.
Feb 20, 2016 at 09:31 AM
p.41 #6Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Not nagging anyone. It's important data for us end users
Feb 20, 2016 at 09:48 AM
p.41 #7Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jochenb wrote:
I sent my decentered copy back for a refund, because the store had no idea when they'd receive new stock. Surprisingly they gave me a call that a backordered copy arrived so all of a sudden I could exchange mine after all.
Well... this new copy is again decentered!
I've bought so many Zeiss lenses and only once I got a decentered one (21/2.8 ZE). Now I got 2 bad 21 Loxia's in a row. This destroys the confidence (compared to some other brands) I had in Zeiss.
Thanks for the report. It seems like some lenses suffer more than the others. For example, I've never read reports of users having decentered 50/2 lenses. I'm hoping that Zeiss Service is fully able to correct the issue.
Last week, I sent my Loxia 35/2 to them but I've never had any luck with Canon or Sony service in the past. Lenses sent for repair with noticeable issues would pass their adjustment tests.
My guess is that lens decentering is widespread among all brands (from low to high) and only a small minority of photographers is really able to precisely detect the issue with specific tests (FM members is part of this minority). Most don't test or care about this unless the decentering is awfully noticeable in real world images.
I sent my decentered copy back for a refund, because the store had no idea when they'd receive new stock. Surprisingly they gave me a call that a backordered copy arrived so all of a sudden I could exchange mine after all.
Well... this new copy is again decentered!
I've bought so many Zeiss lenses and only once I got a decentered one (21/2.8 ZE). Now I got 2 bad 21 Loxia's in a row. This destroys the confidence (compared to some other brands) I had in Zeiss.
Thanks for the report. It seems like some lenses suffer more than the others. For example, I've never read reports of users having decentered 50/2 lenses. I'm hoping that Zeiss Service is fully able to correct the issue.
Last week, I sent my Loxia 35/2 to them but I've never had any luck with Canon or Sony service in the past. Lenses sent for repair with noticeable issues would pass their adjustment tests.
My guess is that lens decentering is widespread among all brands (from low to high) and only a small minority of photographers is really able to precisely detect the issue with specific tests (FM members is part of this minority). Most don't test or care about this unless the decentering is awfully noticeable in real world images.
Feb 20, 2016 at 09:59 AM
p.41 #8Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Is very unfortunate ... hope they really take this seriously and fixes the problems ..If I sell my Zf2 21 and provides loxia 21 then I'm afraid that will get an ex who has been out already, and someone sent back for this probelm
Feb 20, 2016 at 01:29 PM
p.41 #9Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I also think that many people don't even test it Fred.
I'm not sure what I'll do now. Get the refund after all or send it to the Zeiss headquarters for repair (with the risk of them saying it's within spec).
This is how my current copy looks wideopen:
Bottom left corner:
Bottom right corner:
The decentering is pretty obvious again. This example is just one of my many tests that all confirm the exact same issue.
I'm not sure what I'll do now. Get the refund after all or send it to the Zeiss headquarters for repair (with the risk of them saying it's within spec).
This is how my current copy looks wideopen:
Bottom left corner:
Bottom right corner:
The decentering is pretty obvious again. This example is just one of my many tests that all confirm the exact same issue.
Feb 21, 2016 at 07:52 AM
p.41 #10Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Yuk! That is messed up. Nothing more to say.
Feb 21, 2016 at 08:36 AM
p.41 #11Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
DXO Score is out:
http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Zeiss-Loxia-2.8-21-review-Compact-yet-outstanding-optical-performance
Conclusion
While it appears that Sony is intent on following Canon and Nikon with large and heavy high-speed designs, Zeiss has recognized that many adopters of the Sony A7 series are looking to concede lens speed in return for compact and lightweight models. Of course, you do tend to get what you pay for, and optical quality like this is never cheap, but then the Zeiss Loxia 21mm f2.8 is an outstanding performer and a near perfect match to the size and weight of the Sony A7 models.
http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Zeiss-Loxia-2.8-21-review-Compact-yet-outstanding-optical-performance
 |
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| http://www.dxomark.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/versus_015/146106-1-eng-US/Versus_01.jpg | ||
|
Conclusion
While it appears that Sony is intent on following Canon and Nikon with large and heavy high-speed designs, Zeiss has recognized that many adopters of the Sony A7 series are looking to concede lens speed in return for compact and lightweight models. Of course, you do tend to get what you pay for, and optical quality like this is never cheap, but then the Zeiss Loxia 21mm f2.8 is an outstanding performer and a near perfect match to the size and weight of the Sony A7 models.
Feb 22, 2016 at 03:15 PM
p.41 #12Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
MJKoski wrote:
So no, Zeiss "quality" is somewhat a myth in my book.
Jochenb wrote:
Now I got 2 bad 21 Loxia's in a row. This destroys the confidence (compared to some other brands) I had in Zeiss.
Guys, that's pretty over-the-top.
Jochen, all that's happened is that you had good luck for a while and it's changed. Exchange for a third copy and it'll almost surely be fine. Two lenses (or even the total number of reports this thread has so far) are not anywhere near enough evidence to represent a trend or a design problem.
I've posted this about lens mount adapters many times, so apologies to those who have heard it. And those of you who read Roger Cicala's recent article on the subject have heard it too:
All you can determine after trying one or two or a dozen samples of a product made in tens of thousands is whether or not you're lucky. It is literally impossible to produce a lens (or even a simple product like the ones I make) without a few out-of-spec copies making it into customers hands. Unless you're only making a handful and/or you raise the price beyond the point that anyone in this thread can afford (and maybe not even then, since things can go wrong during shipping).
The only things you should be judging Zeiss on are (a) how they treat customers who get one of these lenses and (b) whether they take proper steps if it actually does turn out there are enough bad lenses to suggest a design flaw. THAT'S where you'll see the difference between a Zeiss and a Rokinon (or even a Nikon, these last few years).
serhan_ wrote:
DXO Score is out:
The bigger question than whether there's a QA problem with this lens is where Zeiss got their magic zero-light-loss glass that allows them to produce an f/2.8 lens with a T-stop of 2.8.
So no, Zeiss "quality" is somewhat a myth in my book.
Jochenb wrote:
Now I got 2 bad 21 Loxia's in a row. This destroys the confidence (compared to some other brands) I had in Zeiss.
Guys, that's pretty over-the-top.
Jochen, all that's happened is that you had good luck for a while and it's changed. Exchange for a third copy and it'll almost surely be fine. Two lenses (or even the total number of reports this thread has so far) are not anywhere near enough evidence to represent a trend or a design problem.
I've posted this about lens mount adapters many times, so apologies to those who have heard it. And those of you who read Roger Cicala's recent article on the subject have heard it too:
All you can determine after trying one or two or a dozen samples of a product made in tens of thousands is whether or not you're lucky. It is literally impossible to produce a lens (or even a simple product like the ones I make) without a few out-of-spec copies making it into customers hands. Unless you're only making a handful and/or you raise the price beyond the point that anyone in this thread can afford (and maybe not even then, since things can go wrong during shipping).
The only things you should be judging Zeiss on are (a) how they treat customers who get one of these lenses and (b) whether they take proper steps if it actually does turn out there are enough bad lenses to suggest a design flaw. THAT'S where you'll see the difference between a Zeiss and a Rokinon (or even a Nikon, these last few years).
serhan_ wrote:
DXO Score is out:
The bigger question than whether there's a QA problem with this lens is where Zeiss got their magic zero-light-loss glass that allows them to produce an f/2.8 lens with a T-stop of 2.8.
Feb 22, 2016 at 03:21 PM
p.41 #13Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Lee Saxon wrote:
Jochen, all that's happened is that you had good luck for a while and it's changed. Exchange for a third copy and it'll almost surely be fine.
Ha ha that's exactly what I thought when I got my replacement. How wrong was I.
I've contacted Zeiss directly about it now. We'll see what they'll say about it.
Jochen, all that's happened is that you had good luck for a while and it's changed. Exchange for a third copy and it'll almost surely be fine.
Ha ha that's exactly what I thought when I got my replacement. How wrong was I.
I've contacted Zeiss directly about it now. We'll see what they'll say about it.
Feb 22, 2016 at 03:46 PM
p.41 #14Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jochenb wrote:
Ha ha that's exactly what I thought when I got my replacement. How wrong was I.
I've contacted Zeiss directly about it now. We'll see what they'll say about it.
Have you tested your camera with other lenses and or tested these Loxias on another camera? After three copies in a row I'd start suspecting my camera's mount was the problem They're pretty easy to bend, especially if you have the garbage plastic ones from the first A7 generation.
Ha ha that's exactly what I thought when I got my replacement. How wrong was I.
I've contacted Zeiss directly about it now. We'll see what they'll say about it.
Have you tested your camera with other lenses and or tested these Loxias on another camera? After three copies in a row I'd start suspecting my camera's mount was the problem They're pretty easy to bend, especially if you have the garbage plastic ones from the first A7 generation.
Feb 22, 2016 at 03:55 PM
p.41 #15Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
serhan_ wrote:
DXO Score is out:
http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Zeiss-Loxia-2.8-21-review-Compact-yet-outstanding-optical-performance
http://www.dxomark.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/versus_015/146106-1-eng-US/Versus_01.jpg
_______________
From the review:
"It has high sharpness and good flatness of field even at the maximum aperture, with stopping down improving sharpness mostly in the outer field"
So, that may be the case for test charts at close distances, but I don't find it to be the case at infinity.
DXO Score is out:
http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Zeiss-Loxia-2.8-21-review-Compact-yet-outstanding-optical-performance
http://www.dxomark.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/versus_015/146106-1-eng-US/Versus_01.jpg
Earlier quote
ConclusionEarlier quote
While it appears that Sony is intent on following Canon and Nikon with large and heavy high-speed designs, Zeiss has recognized that many adopters of the Sony A7 series are looking to concede lens speed in return for compact and lightweight models. Of course, you do tend to get what you pay for, and optical quality like this is never cheap, but then the Zeiss Loxia 21mm f2.8 is an outstanding performer and a near perfect match to the size and weight of the Sony A7 models.From the review:
"It has high sharpness and good flatness of field even at the maximum aperture, with stopping down improving sharpness mostly in the outer field"
So, that may be the case for test charts at close distances, but I don't find it to be the case at infinity.
Feb 22, 2016 at 04:00 PM
p.41 #16Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Lee Saxon wrote:
I've contacted Zeiss directly about it now. We'll see what they'll say about it.Have you tested your camera with other lenses and or tested these Loxias on another camera? After three copies in a row I'd start suspecting my camera's mount was the problem They're pretty easy to bend, especially if you have the garbage plastic ones from the first A7 generation.
I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about my current replacement (the second copy), because apart from my own positive experience with Zeiss in the past I don't think I've ever seen anyone on FM get 2 clearly decentered Zeiss lenses in a row. It's more something you see with for example Sony gear.
It's absolutely not my camera (A7RII). I use(d) a lot of lenses on it. Native ones like the 25 Batis and adapted wide angles like the Voigtländer 15mm III, 25/2 ZF.2,... all fine. Both Loxias show a different decentering too.
One thing is certain. The current high MP cameras are extremely unforgiving for slightly misaligned lenses.
I'll stop venting my frustration now.
Jochenb wrote
Ha ha that's exactly what I thought when I got my replacement. How wrong was I.I've contacted Zeiss directly about it now. We'll see what they'll say about it.
I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about my current replacement (the second copy), because apart from my own positive experience with Zeiss in the past I don't think I've ever seen anyone on FM get 2 clearly decentered Zeiss lenses in a row. It's more something you see with for example Sony gear.
It's absolutely not my camera (A7RII). I use(d) a lot of lenses on it. Native ones like the 25 Batis and adapted wide angles like the Voigtländer 15mm III, 25/2 ZF.2,... all fine. Both Loxias show a different decentering too.
One thing is certain. The current high MP cameras are extremely unforgiving for slightly misaligned lenses.
I'll stop venting my frustration now.
Feb 22, 2016 at 04:30 PM
p.41 #17Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Fred Miranda wrote:
From the review:
"It has high sharpness and good flatness of field even at the maximum aperture, with stopping down improving sharpness mostly in the outer field"
So, that may be the case for test charts at close distances, but I don't find it to be the case at infinity.
It jives with my testing. I saw flat field performance at fairly close distances, while the field curvature showed up further out. Not too big of a deal.
From the review:
"It has high sharpness and good flatness of field even at the maximum aperture, with stopping down improving sharpness mostly in the outer field"
So, that may be the case for test charts at close distances, but I don't find it to be the case at infinity.
It jives with my testing. I saw flat field performance at fairly close distances, while the field curvature showed up further out. Not too big of a deal.
Feb 22, 2016 at 04:43 PM
p.41 #18Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Is Loxia 21, so much sharper than the ZE/ZF 21mm? (may be they have got a bad copy of ZF)
From the samples we have seen on this thread it did not seem like that. The ZE/ZF seemed a touch better than Loxia from all the samples I have seen till now. Isn't it?
From the samples we have seen on this thread it did not seem like that. The ZE/ZF seemed a touch better than Loxia from all the samples I have seen till now. Isn't it?
Feb 22, 2016 at 06:31 PM
p.41 #19Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
My Loxia is sharper than my ZE, at least that's my assessment of my two lenses.
-Tim
bbvaj wrote:
Is Loxia 21, so much sharper than the ZE/ZF 21mm? (may be they have got a bad copy of ZF)
From the samples we have seen on this thread it did not seem like that. The ZE/ZF seemed a touch better than Loxia from all the samples I have seen till now. Isn't it?
Feb 22, 2016 at 06:35 PM
p.41 #20Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
tsdevine wrote:
My Loxia is sharper than my ZE, at least that's my assessment of my two lenses.
-Tim
From the samples we have seen on this thread it did not seem like that. The ZE/ZF seemed a touch better than Loxia from all the samples I have seen till now. Isn't it?
+1
My Loxia is sharper than my ZE, at least that's my assessment of my two lenses.
-Tim
bbvaj wrote
Is Loxia 21, so much sharper than the ZE/ZF 21mm? (may be they have got a bad copy of ZF)From the samples we have seen on this thread it did not seem like that. The ZE/ZF seemed a touch better than Loxia from all the samples I have seen till now. Isn't it?
+1
Feb 22, 2016 at 07:01 PM