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Archive 2015Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
p.39 #1Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I've seen this grid pattern now and then. I've seen it shooting the Samyang fisheye on a Nex-5n and Nex-6 directly into the sun. I've seen it many times on a Samsung Galaxy S2 under the same conditions. Never thought more about it than it being some sort of sensor stack reflection.
Feb 14, 2016 at 04:35 AM
p.39 #2Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
My situation is that I see it now and then and with variability even with the same camera lens.
Feb 14, 2016 at 07:03 AM
p.39 #3Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
For those of you unhappy with the sides and corners at infinity, have you tried stopping down to f/8 and f/11 and using the hard infinity stop? From my brief testing, it evens out the sharpness across the frame.
-Tim
Feb 14, 2016 at 11:25 AM
p.39 #4Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Thats just how I use my 21mm Elmarit asph on the A7 for distant landscapes, and have done on film too for years. Surely the Loxia will do better than that?
Gerry
Gerry
Feb 14, 2016 at 04:40 PM
p.39 #5Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I like how everything has to turn into a competition....
gyoung143 wrote:
Thats just how I use my 21mm Elmarit asph on the A7 for distant landscapes, and have done on film too for years. Surely the Loxia will do better than that?
Gerry
Feb 14, 2016 at 04:57 PM
p.39 #6Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
? Just looking for something better at wider apertures as the Elmarit asph doesn't do so well at 4 & 5.6 on the A7 as it does on film.
Gerry
Gerry
Feb 14, 2016 at 05:03 PM
p.39 #7Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
There is some field curvature at play, which I think will do well for my shooting style. But if you're looking for a flat field, you may not be happy with the Loxia.
gyoung143 wrote:
? Just looking for something better at wider apertures as the Elmarit asph doesn't do so well at 4 & 5.6 on the A7 as it does on film.
Gerry
Feb 14, 2016 at 05:15 PM
p.39 #8Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I really like the Loxia very much the field curvature is not a big issue to me. The rendering for me is what counts and it's very sharp.
Feb 14, 2016 at 05:28 PM
p.39 #11Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
tsdevine wrote:
There is some field curvature at play, which I think will do well for my shooting style. But if you're looking for a flat field, you may not be happy with the Loxia.
gyoung143 wrote
? Just looking for something better at wider apertures as the Elmarit asph doesn't do so well at 4 & 5.6 on the A7 as it does on film.Gerry
Thanks gentlemen, I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that for me the Loxia's characteristics offer no improvement over the Elmarit, or at least not of sufficient weight to warrant changing.
Does anyone know if the tradional C/Y or ZF etc Distagon suffers in the same way with curvature of field? I dont like the weight or size of them but it may be a possibility.
Gerry
Feb 15, 2016 at 03:13 AM
p.39 #12Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I've been testing my 21 Loxia some more and it's clearly a faulty copy. The top right corner is the worst. Actually, the whole top edge of the image is different than the bottom. When I turn the focus ring to the hard stop the top part of the image is slightly out of focus. When I then turn the camera upside down and take the exact same shot (without touching the focus ring ofcourse) it's in focus.
I think this is an explanation why I immediately thought this copy was behaving strangely. It's just not symmetrical. It's going back. I want another one, but stock is a problem.
Have you guys tested your copies for decentering? All fine or some mild variations? I'm using the A7RII, very unforgiving for decentering.
I think this is an explanation why I immediately thought this copy was behaving strangely. It's just not symmetrical. It's going back. I want another one, but stock is a problem.
Have you guys tested your copies for decentering? All fine or some mild variations? I'm using the A7RII, very unforgiving for decentering.
Feb 15, 2016 at 03:51 AM
p.39 #13Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jochenb wrote:
Have you guys tested your copies for decentering? All fine or some mild variations? I'm using the A7RII, very unforgiving for decentering.
I had exactely the same problem, top right corner sucked in comparison. Zeiss analyzed it and told me that it was an isolated incident. The reason was a faulty element in the front group.
But that's not enough - I got a completely new sample, well centered but with the infinity stop slightly before infinity. Now, it's getting serviced again. Still not possible to continue my review, very frustrating. Hope to get the Loxia back next week.
Have you guys tested your copies for decentering? All fine or some mild variations? I'm using the A7RII, very unforgiving for decentering.
I had exactely the same problem, top right corner sucked in comparison. Zeiss analyzed it and told me that it was an isolated incident. The reason was a faulty element in the front group.
But that's not enough - I got a completely new sample, well centered but with the infinity stop slightly before infinity. Now, it's getting serviced again. Still not possible to continue my review, very frustrating. Hope to get the Loxia back next week.
Feb 15, 2016 at 05:44 AM
p.39 #14Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jannik Peters wrote:
I had exactely the same problem, top right corner sucked in comparison. Zeiss analyzed it and told me that it was an isolated incident. The reason was a faulty element in the front group.
But that's not enough - I got a completely new sample, well centered but with the infinity stop slightly before infinity. Now, it's getting serviced again. Still not possible to continue my review, very frustrating. Hope to get the Loxia back next week.
That makes 2 "isolated incidents" then. I'm sending mine back to the store for a refund (since there is no new stock yet) so I'm not communicating with Zeiss directly.
Are you getting your new copy serviced to get infinity at the hard stop? Doesn't sound like an issue to me. Every Zeiss lens that I've ever bought had it's infinity just a touch before the hard stop.
Jochenb wrote
Have you guys tested your copies for decentering? All fine or some mild variations? I'm using the A7RII, very unforgiving for decentering.But that's not enough - I got a completely new sample, well centered but with the infinity stop slightly before infinity. Now, it's getting serviced again. Still not possible to continue my review, very frustrating. Hope to get the Loxia back next week.
That makes 2 "isolated incidents" then. I'm sending mine back to the store for a refund (since there is no new stock yet) so I'm not communicating with Zeiss directly.
Are you getting your new copy serviced to get infinity at the hard stop? Doesn't sound like an issue to me. Every Zeiss lens that I've ever bought had it's infinity just a touch before the hard stop.
Feb 15, 2016 at 05:55 AM
p.39 #15Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jochenb wrote:
Are you getting your new copy serviced to get infinity at the hard stop? Doesn't sound like an issue to me. Every Zeiss lens that I've ever bought had it's infinity just a touch before the hard stop.
No, it's not possible to focus perfectly until infinity, it stops before infiinity. Normally, it should be possible to focus slightly past infinity, not so with my lens.
Performance there is slightly degraded, that's all I could squeeze out of it:
https://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?short=DuEDu1
Edited on Feb 15, 2016 at 06:08 AM · View previous versions
Are you getting your new copy serviced to get infinity at the hard stop? Doesn't sound like an issue to me. Every Zeiss lens that I've ever bought had it's infinity just a touch before the hard stop.
No, it's not possible to focus perfectly until infinity, it stops before infiinity. Normally, it should be possible to focus slightly past infinity, not so with my lens.
Performance there is slightly degraded, that's all I could squeeze out of it:
https://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?short=DuEDu1
Edited on Feb 15, 2016 at 06:08 AM · View previous versions
Feb 15, 2016 at 06:03 AM
p.39 #17Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jannik Peters wrote:
No, it's not possible to focus perfectly until infinity, it stops before infiinity. Normally, it should be possible to focus slightly past infinity, not so with my lens.
Performance there is slightly degraded, that's all I could squeeze out of it:
https://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?short=DuEDu1
Oh I'm sorry Jannik, I misread your sentence. That s*cks. I hope you'll have it back soon.
Jochenb wrote
Are you getting your new copy serviced to get infinity at the hard stop? Doesn't sound like an issue to me. Every Zeiss lens that I've ever bought had it's infinity just a touch before the hard stop.Performance there is slightly degraded, that's all I could squeeze out of it:
https://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?short=DuEDu1
Oh I'm sorry Jannik, I misread your sentence. That s*cks. I hope you'll have it back soon.
Feb 15, 2016 at 06:25 AM
p.39 #18Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
My copy is well-centered but I've seen too many reports of decentering with the Loxia 21. I advise testing your copy when it arrives.
Regarding hard-stop and field curvature:
From my tests, the Loxia 21/2.8 has moderate field curvature which is pretty common with ultra wides. It's similar to the behavior of my TS-E 17/4.
At infinity (a tad before the hard-stop), if you focus on the center of the frame, the edges and extreme corners are softer because the field of focus curves towards the foreground. If you focus on the edges at infinity (which in this case it's the hard stop), the center and mid-field lose some sharpness...
So, how to take a tack sharp landscape shot with background edges, mid-field and center in perfect focus? Well, you really can't but there is always a way to compromise and get great results. Shooting at f/8 or smaller helps but it does not completely solve the issue.
If the background edges are very important to your scene, the hard-stop is the way to focus. Keep in mind that you will lose resolution in center/mid-field.
If the center/mid-field must have the best resolution, turn the focusing ring away from the hard-stop a tiny bit. Keep in mind that the further you turn from the infinity hard-stop, the more out-of-focus your background edges will be.
The trick is to find the best compromise for your needs.
For those who like shooting with the 16-35/4 @21mm, this does not happen and the zoom is pretty much flat field at this FL. However, extreme corners are a little smeared (astigmatism) and stopping down does not help much.
The Loxia 21/2.8 is not a very easy lens to focus and therefore some experimentation is needed. However, IMO, it's by far the best ultra wide for the E-mount currently. (Until the Batis 18 that is...)
Regarding hard-stop and field curvature:
From my tests, the Loxia 21/2.8 has moderate field curvature which is pretty common with ultra wides. It's similar to the behavior of my TS-E 17/4.
At infinity (a tad before the hard-stop), if you focus on the center of the frame, the edges and extreme corners are softer because the field of focus curves towards the foreground. If you focus on the edges at infinity (which in this case it's the hard stop), the center and mid-field lose some sharpness...
So, how to take a tack sharp landscape shot with background edges, mid-field and center in perfect focus? Well, you really can't but there is always a way to compromise and get great results. Shooting at f/8 or smaller helps but it does not completely solve the issue.
If the background edges are very important to your scene, the hard-stop is the way to focus. Keep in mind that you will lose resolution in center/mid-field.
If the center/mid-field must have the best resolution, turn the focusing ring away from the hard-stop a tiny bit. Keep in mind that the further you turn from the infinity hard-stop, the more out-of-focus your background edges will be.
The trick is to find the best compromise for your needs.
For those who like shooting with the 16-35/4 @21mm, this does not happen and the zoom is pretty much flat field at this FL. However, extreme corners are a little smeared (astigmatism) and stopping down does not help much.
The Loxia 21/2.8 is not a very easy lens to focus and therefore some experimentation is needed. However, IMO, it's by far the best ultra wide for the E-mount currently. (Until the Batis 18 that is...)
Feb 16, 2016 at 11:34 PM
p.39 #19Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Your summary is correct Fred. It's not unusual behavior for a wide angle lens. My copy was weird at some focus distances, because of it's decentering. It's now back to the store. Sadly even the distributor can't say anything about when new stock will arrive at the stores. It could be weeks, but also months. Zeiss must've really underestimated the success. Also look at the bad availability of the Batis lenses, still today.
BTW, this was only my second decentered Zeiss lens ever (and I've bought many). I hope it's just bad luck and not declining QC.
Edited on Feb 17, 2016 at 07:12 AM · View previous versions
BTW, this was only my second decentered Zeiss lens ever (and I've bought many). I hope it's just bad luck and not declining QC.
Edited on Feb 17, 2016 at 07:12 AM · View previous versions
Feb 17, 2016 at 03:20 AM
p.39 #20Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
In case you missed it, I published some recent images with the Loxia 21 on A7rII shooting into the sun with very little to no sensor reflection: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1255248/1432#13422397
Feb 17, 2016 at 04:58 AM