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Archive 2015Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
p.14 #1Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
philber wrote:
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Thanks so much for this. Confirms my happiness for being first on the list with my dealer for this lens as finally I think I will have a wide that I am really happy with on the A7 series
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Thanks so much for this. Confirms my happiness for being first on the list with my dealer for this lens as finally I think I will have a wide that I am really happy with on the A7 series
Nov 06, 2015 at 03:34 PM
p.14 #2Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
philber wrote:
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Love what you said there Philippe. Can't wait to see the next Loxia. Please a 15/2.8. I promise I'll be a Zony fanboy for life.
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Love what you said there Philippe. Can't wait to see the next Loxia. Please a 15/2.8. I promise I'll be a Zony fanboy for life.
Nov 06, 2015 at 04:35 PM
p.14 #3Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
philber wrote:
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Thanks Philippe. In the right hands, twenty minutes is more than enough to get to know the qualities of a lens and it's probably the best review we'll see. I'm impressed by the samples and I'm sure landscape photographers will love it. The big plus is the controlled vignetting which I expected to be on the heavy side for such small lens.
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Thanks Philippe. In the right hands, twenty minutes is more than enough to get to know the qualities of a lens and it's probably the best review we'll see. I'm impressed by the samples and I'm sure landscape photographers will love it. The big plus is the controlled vignetting which I expected to be on the heavy side for such small lens.
Nov 06, 2015 at 05:48 PM
p.14 #4Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Thanks, Philippe. As always, Pascal and your reviews are quite refreshing, even though reading this and other reviews on your site I always came away with the impression that the pictures tell far more about the remarkable skill set and eye of the people behind the camera than the actual lenses. That being said, the lens' performance is pretty impressive.
It's probably a good thing that Zeiss treats Japan pretty badly (we always get lenses months after Europe, US and then the waiting lists are incredibly long), so even if I wanted to, I couldn't even pre-order the lens. Then again, this is probably a good thing, because I find the versatility of the 16-35 zoom quite to my liking, even though it's not playing in the same league as the CZ primes. Like Hiepp, I still lust after a 15 2.8 as well (15 2.8, 21 2.8 and 25 2 sounds like a great set of ultra high quality ultra wides)
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It's probably a good thing that Zeiss treats Japan pretty badly (we always get lenses months after Europe, US and then the waiting lists are incredibly long), so even if I wanted to, I couldn't even pre-order the lens. Then again, this is probably a good thing, because I find the versatility of the 16-35 zoom quite to my liking, even though it's not playing in the same league as the CZ primes. Like Hiepp, I still lust after a 15 2.8 as well (15 2.8, 21 2.8 and 25 2 sounds like a great set of ultra high quality ultra wides)
. Nov 06, 2015 at 07:01 PM
p.14 #5Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
While the vignetting doesn't look too bad (vignetting test), the concentric colored rings are disturbing. Neutral center spot, magenta-yellow midzone, and green-magenta outerzone. These become more apparent as shadows are lifted to make up for the vignetting, or to increase brightness and saturation for skies. Other users have reported the same issue with the Zeiss 35/2.8. I think it might be mostly sensor related, but some lenses seem to bring it out more(?).
All the shots I have seen from the lens don't seem to have the Zeiss pop. Just the opposite, they look flat. I'm not convinced this lens will be loved by landscape photographers. A good Zony 16-35 might have better color and pop, and good enough sharpness at 21mm.
All the shots I have seen from the lens don't seem to have the Zeiss pop. Just the opposite, they look flat. I'm not convinced this lens will be loved by landscape photographers. A good Zony 16-35 might have better color and pop, and good enough sharpness at 21mm.
Nov 06, 2015 at 10:45 PM
p.14 #6Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
The lighting is really flat. Does not help it. Hopefully more samples soon to get a better idea.
Nov 06, 2015 at 11:05 PM
p.14 #7Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
philber wrote:
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Hate to think I was influenced by looking at the rainbow effect in the vignette shot, but there looks to be lots of colour in the sides of the first few shot. Lots of green outside, then what looks like a purple cast ...
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Hate to think I was influenced by looking at the rainbow effect in the vignette shot, but there looks to be lots of colour in the sides of the first few shot. Lots of green outside, then what looks like a purple cast ...
Nov 07, 2015 at 12:22 AM
p.14 #8Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Chris_88 wrote:
It's probably a good thing that Zeiss treats Japan pretty badly (we always get lenses months after Europe, US and then the waiting lists are incredibly long), so even if I wanted to, I couldn't even pre-order the lens.
Yes, but last I checked, Zeiss lenses sell for a fair amount less in Japan, pre-tax. Not sure if this is also true of the Sony specific lenses, but certainly for the ZE/ZF, ZM and Otus. Perhaps the wait is a worthwhile consolation...? I admit I was frustrated by the later delivery to Japan when I was shopping for the ZM35/1.4 and happened to be in Tokyo in early May... Delivery scheduled for July (?) whereas the lens was already in limited release elsewhere, but for about $1750 US in Japan compared to $2300 US here....
Anyway, the Loxia 21 does look very promising. I'd definitely get it if I was shooting FF Sony FE. If APS-C, the Samyang 21/1.4 looks to be quite remarkable.
It's probably a good thing that Zeiss treats Japan pretty badly (we always get lenses months after Europe, US and then the waiting lists are incredibly long), so even if I wanted to, I couldn't even pre-order the lens.
Yes, but last I checked, Zeiss lenses sell for a fair amount less in Japan, pre-tax. Not sure if this is also true of the Sony specific lenses, but certainly for the ZE/ZF, ZM and Otus. Perhaps the wait is a worthwhile consolation...? I admit I was frustrated by the later delivery to Japan when I was shopping for the ZM35/1.4 and happened to be in Tokyo in early May... Delivery scheduled for July (?) whereas the lens was already in limited release elsewhere, but for about $1750 US in Japan compared to $2300 US here....
Anyway, the Loxia 21 does look very promising. I'd definitely get it if I was shooting FF Sony FE. If APS-C, the Samyang 21/1.4 looks to be quite remarkable.
Nov 07, 2015 at 12:45 AM
p.14 #9Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
philber wrote:
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Ugh! Do I keep my versatile FE 16-35 or get this beauty instead?
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Ugh! Do I keep my versatile FE 16-35 or get this beauty instead?
Nov 07, 2015 at 01:34 AM
p.14 #10Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
It is light and small enough that you can have both..
Nov 07, 2015 at 09:03 AM
p.14 #11Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Zeiss interview confirms 5 new lenses with 2-3 of them coming next year... Interesting comment about CA as one of the answers:
http://ilovehatephoto.com/2015/11/05/ilhp-and-zeiss-at-photoplus-expo-2015-exclusive-interview/
Sometimes we receive complaints because an image from a wide angle lens needs software correction against color fringes, which in comparison the customers did not see in a zoom lens of equivalent focal length. They forgot that in all zooms the sign of lateral chromatic aberration changes over the zoom range and that this causes a range of neutral behavior without any fringe in the middle of the zoom range. And here the zoom is very often superior to a small prime. Usually at the ends of the zoom range the comparison leads to a reversed result.
http://ilovehatephoto.com/2015/11/05/ilhp-and-zeiss-at-photoplus-expo-2015-exclusive-interview/
Sometimes we receive complaints because an image from a wide angle lens needs software correction against color fringes, which in comparison the customers did not see in a zoom lens of equivalent focal length. They forgot that in all zooms the sign of lateral chromatic aberration changes over the zoom range and that this causes a range of neutral behavior without any fringe in the middle of the zoom range. And here the zoom is very often superior to a small prime. Usually at the ends of the zoom range the comparison leads to a reversed result.
Nov 07, 2015 at 09:18 AM
p.14 #12Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Philippe, how do you compare this lens rendering to the Batis 25? Just curious.
Nov 07, 2015 at 11:49 AM
p.14 #13Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
OK, I am going to stick my neck out here. I played with the Batis 25, and it really reminded me of my Touit 12. The 25 is endowed with every possible virtue, sharpness, colours, 3D, but something is lacking, which I can't quite put my finger on, that prevents me from rating it among the very top tier. Pascal feels the same way. If I had to put words on it, I'd say it is a bit "synthetic" rather than "organic". Pascal says it is a bit like pre-cooked food. Tasty and easy to eat, but not quite the same as fresh produce. It could be due to the constraints of an AF lens, or to a different builder than Cosina, like Tamron or Fuji.
The Loxia 21 is much more "traditional Zeiss", as in the Z* range, in an even slightly more transparent form than the Z* Distagons. Having tried the Loxia alleviates any regret I had that my order for the Batis wasn't filled, but that is just me, and I have been in the minority over my preferences more than once.
But I would like to remind you that we could only try it for a short time, on show grounds, and without direct comparison. So there may be more to this lens than we know now.
The Loxia 21 is much more "traditional Zeiss", as in the Z* range, in an even slightly more transparent form than the Z* Distagons. Having tried the Loxia alleviates any regret I had that my order for the Batis wasn't filled, but that is just me, and I have been in the minority over my preferences more than once.
But I would like to remind you that we could only try it for a short time, on show grounds, and without direct comparison. So there may be more to this lens than we know now.
Nov 07, 2015 at 12:43 PM
p.14 #14Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I had the chance to shoot the Loxia 21/2.8 today. Looks incredible and it is smaller than what I expected. Very compact indeed. Might have to get the credit card ready. Ouch!
Nov 07, 2015 at 12:45 PM
p.14 #15Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
philber wrote:
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Phillipe,
Thanks to both you and Phillipe for the excellent review. I love the style and approach of Dear Susan. I am looking forward to the full review in due time. It looks like a great lens, and I am definitely planning on getting one.
Fred, a friend and I were allowed to shoot the 21 for a couple of hours yesterday. We have no reasons to doubt the MTF, and the enthusiasm of the Zeiss team regarding its performance is genuine. You can find our blog post on it here Loxia 21 on DearSusan
Phillipe,
Thanks to both you and Phillipe for the excellent review. I love the style and approach of Dear Susan. I am looking forward to the full review in due time. It looks like a great lens, and I am definitely planning on getting one.
Nov 07, 2015 at 02:25 PM
p.14 #16Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
philber wrote:
OK, I am going to stick my neck out here. I played with the Batis 25, and it really reminded me of my Touit 12. The 25 is endowed with every possible virtue, sharpness, colours, 3D, but something is lacking, which I can't quite put my finger on, that prevents me from rating it among the very top tier. Pascal feels the same way. If I had to put words on it, I'd say it is a bit "synthetic" rather than "organic". Pascal says it is a bit like pre-cooked food. Tasty and easy to eat, but not quite the...Show more →
Well let me offer a controversial interpretation. I think one of the things that differentiates the Batis 25 and really the 85 as well, is just how flat the sharpness is across the field. Zeiss wide angles in particular have always had very good corners, but have also always been a bit sharper in the centre than the corner. The Zeiss Batis lenses have virtually no difference in sharpness between the centre and almost 2/3rds of the way across the frame both stopped down and wide open, and the edges and even corners are only a tiny bit less sharp. If you take a lens even like the Z*/Milvus 21 f/2.8, it has great edges and good corners, but is even sharper in the middle. Same is true for the Loxia 21 f/2.8 and the Z* 25 f/2. These lenses also have a bit better centre sharpness, and less corner sharpness than the Batis lenses because of this gradual shift in sharpness. Many people may well like the extremely flat field in terms of sharpness for the Batis lenses, but that might be what you perceive as synthetic. I know, personally a 15 percent gradual fall off in MTF from the centre to the corners to my eye looks natural, but maybe that is just me, and maybe I am reading way too much into this issue, but I think it is a potential explanation for what you are describing.
OK, I am going to stick my neck out here. I played with the Batis 25, and it really reminded me of my Touit 12. The 25 is endowed with every possible virtue, sharpness, colours, 3D, but something is lacking, which I can't quite put my finger on, that prevents me from rating it among the very top tier. Pascal feels the same way. If I had to put words on it, I'd say it is a bit "synthetic" rather than "organic". Pascal says it is a bit like pre-cooked food. Tasty and easy to eat, but not quite the...Show more →
Well let me offer a controversial interpretation. I think one of the things that differentiates the Batis 25 and really the 85 as well, is just how flat the sharpness is across the field. Zeiss wide angles in particular have always had very good corners, but have also always been a bit sharper in the centre than the corner. The Zeiss Batis lenses have virtually no difference in sharpness between the centre and almost 2/3rds of the way across the frame both stopped down and wide open, and the edges and even corners are only a tiny bit less sharp. If you take a lens even like the Z*/Milvus 21 f/2.8, it has great edges and good corners, but is even sharper in the middle. Same is true for the Loxia 21 f/2.8 and the Z* 25 f/2. These lenses also have a bit better centre sharpness, and less corner sharpness than the Batis lenses because of this gradual shift in sharpness. Many people may well like the extremely flat field in terms of sharpness for the Batis lenses, but that might be what you perceive as synthetic. I know, personally a 15 percent gradual fall off in MTF from the centre to the corners to my eye looks natural, but maybe that is just me, and maybe I am reading way too much into this issue, but I think it is a potential explanation for what you are describing.
Nov 07, 2015 at 02:46 PM
p.14 #17Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I tend to agree here. There is very little falloff in the Batis 25 it's just sharp everywhere. Old Zeiss glass had a lot more falloff. Actually I don't remember any of them as a F2 lens having by 2.8 amazing corners more like 5.6. The Batis 25 even the Tammy 35 1.8 the corners at 2.8 are amazingly good. Now do i think every lens in your kit should be like that . I think it's best to have both that way you can creatively chose what maybe best given your subject or what you like to shoot. Strictly landscape folks will want across the field sharpness. Street and portrait folks will want the falloff on some of there glass. Depends on needs obviously but I like having that option. I bought the Batis 25 for commercial work landscapes and PR. I won't be shooting portrait type stuff with it
Nov 07, 2015 at 03:20 PM
p.14 #18Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
rscheffler wrote:
Yes, but last I checked, Zeiss lenses sell for a fair amount less in Japan, pre-tax. Not sure if this is also true of the Sony specific lenses, but certainly for the ZE/ZF, ZM and Otus. Perhaps the wait is a worthwhile consolation...? I admit I was frustrated by the later delivery to Japan when I was shopping for the ZM35/1.4 and happened to be in Tokyo in early May... Delivery scheduled for July (?) whereas the lens was already in limited release elsewhere, but for about $1750 US in Japan compared to $2300 US here....
Anyway, the Loxia 21 does...Show more →
That's true, Ron. Prices in many cases are better here (how much depends on the currency in which you get paid, and the exchange rate of course, hence there are up and downs; also, there is another consumption tax hike coming in the future). I have noticed it especially with a-mount glass (the 70-400G2, 300G2 or 500G's pricing here is pretty competitive compared to the Canikon equivalents).
Chris_88 wrote
It's probably a good thing that Zeiss treats Japan pretty badly (we always get lenses months after Europe, US and then the waiting lists are incredibly long), so even if I wanted to, I couldn't even pre-order the lens.Anyway, the Loxia 21 does...Show more →
That's true, Ron. Prices in many cases are better here (how much depends on the currency in which you get paid, and the exchange rate of course, hence there are up and downs; also, there is another consumption tax hike coming in the future). I have noticed it especially with a-mount glass (the 70-400G2, 300G2 or 500G's pricing here is pretty competitive compared to the Canikon equivalents).
Nov 07, 2015 at 05:40 PM
p.14 #19Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
philber wrote:
OK, I am going to stick my neck out here. I played with the Batis 25, and it really reminded me of my Touit 12. The 25 is endowed with every possible virtue, sharpness, colours, 3D, but something is lacking, which I can't quite put my finger on, that prevents me from rating it among the very top tier. Pascal feels the same way. If I had to put words on it, I'd say it is a bit "synthetic" rather than "organic". Pascal says it is a bit like pre-cooked food. Tasty and easy to eat, but not quite the...Show more →
Thanks, Philippe, for this and the hands-on on Dear Susan. I'm not surprised they're proud of it. I assume an UWA that's complimentary to the system in both size and performance was not a simple thing.
OK, I am going to stick my neck out here. I played with the Batis 25, and it really reminded me of my Touit 12. The 25 is endowed with every possible virtue, sharpness, colours, 3D, but something is lacking, which I can't quite put my finger on, that prevents me from rating it among the very top tier. Pascal feels the same way. If I had to put words on it, I'd say it is a bit "synthetic" rather than "organic". Pascal says it is a bit like pre-cooked food. Tasty and easy to eat, but not quite the...Show more →
Thanks, Philippe, for this and the hands-on on Dear Susan. I'm not surprised they're proud of it. I assume an UWA that's complimentary to the system in both size and performance was not a simple thing.
Nov 07, 2015 at 06:00 PM
p.14 #20Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Steve Spencer wrote:
The Loxia 21 is much more "traditional Zeiss", as in the Z* range, in an even slightly more transparent form than the Z* Distagons. Having tried the Loxia alleviates any regret I had that my order for the Batis wasn't filled, but that is just me, and I have been in the minority over my preferences more than once.
But I would like to remind you that we could only try it for a short time, on show grounds, and without direct comparison. So there may be more to this lens than we know now.Well let me offer a controversial interpretation. I think one of the things that differentiates the Batis 25 and really the 85 as well, is just how flat the sharpness is across the field. Zeiss wide angles in particular have always had very good corners, but have also always been a bit sharper in the centre than the corner. The Zeiss Batis lenses have virtually no difference in sharpness between the centre and almost 2/3rds of the way across the frame both stopped down and wide open, and the edges and even corners are only a tiny bit less...Show more →
Philippe, Thank you very much Excellent perspective and review !!
I do agree about the Batis 25. Brilliant lens and there is a hint of being clinical. I do think the files need to be PP'd differently. I have been waiting 5 months for the Batis 85 in Australia, but for now I am very happy with 85L II, until it arrives. I will keep both the Batis 85 and 85L II lenses for the difference in rendering alone. It is very much like the M lenses, I kept both styles of the rendering, 50 Nocti f/1.0, 50 Lux Asph, 75 Cron Apo and 75 Lux. I always gravitated towards the older (Mandler) style of rendering. Of course if the main interest is landscapes the lens performance needs are quite different.
Steve, I think you have made a very interesting point, why the MTF's are only a smart part of the equation. I really enjoy landscapes/seascapes but I prefer portraits/streets. It will explain, regardless how sharp the lenses maybe the ALT forum will continue with the discussion on the huge array of available lenses.
It is interesting discussions I have had with many outside of the forums of ALT, that there is so many like minded people that do buy the A7 bodies. To be honest I thought we were unique, but many photographers like the choice of lenses likening to a painter with being able to choose how they wish to express what they perceive.
philber wrote
OK, I am going to stick my neck out here. I played with the Batis 25, and it really reminded me of my Touit 12. The 25 is endowed with every possible virtue, sharpness, colours, 3D, but something is lacking, which I can't quite put my finger on, that prevents me from rating it among the very top tier. Pascal feels the same way. If I had to put words on it, I'd say it is a bit "synthetic" rather than "organic". Pascal says it is a bit like pre-cooked food. Tasty and easy to eat, but not quite the same as fresh produce. It could be due to the constraints of an AF lens, or to a different builder than Cosina, like Tamron or Fuji.The Loxia 21 is much more "traditional Zeiss", as in the Z* range, in an even slightly more transparent form than the Z* Distagons. Having tried the Loxia alleviates any regret I had that my order for the Batis wasn't filled, but that is just me, and I have been in the minority over my preferences more than once.
But I would like to remind you that we could only try it for a short time, on show grounds, and without direct comparison. So there may be more to this lens than we know now.
Philippe, Thank you very much
Excellent perspective and review !! I do agree about the Batis 25. Brilliant lens and there is a hint of being clinical. I do think the files need to be PP'd differently. I have been waiting 5 months for the Batis 85 in Australia, but for now I am very happy with 85L II, until it arrives. I will keep both the Batis 85 and 85L II lenses for the difference in rendering alone. It is very much like the M lenses, I kept both styles of the rendering, 50 Nocti f/1.0, 50 Lux Asph, 75 Cron Apo and 75 Lux. I always gravitated towards the older (Mandler) style of rendering. Of course if the main interest is landscapes the lens performance needs are quite different.
Steve, I think you have made a very interesting point, why the MTF's are only a smart part of the equation. I really enjoy landscapes/seascapes but I prefer portraits/streets. It will explain, regardless how sharp the lenses maybe the ALT forum will continue with the discussion on the huge array of available lenses.
It is interesting discussions I have had with many outside of the forums of ALT, that there is so many like minded people that do buy the A7 bodies. To be honest I thought we were unique, but many photographers like the choice of lenses likening to a painter with being able to choose how they wish to express what they perceive.
Nov 07, 2015 at 06:30 PM