retrofocus wrote:
Sounds like owners of the older A7 series cameras are left out here.....marketing strategy to push towards the latest camera models.
I don't know if it can all be attributed to that. It very well may be that the original mk1 bodies don't have the processing throughput or IO to handle uncompressed (or losslessly compressed) files.
I'd love it when a company updates already replaced products, but it's more of a bonus than an expectation. Even Fuji eventually lets its older bodies go with a feature freeze at some point.
justruss wrote:
I don't know if it can all be attributed to that. It very well may be that the original mk1 bodies don't have the processing throughput or IO to handle uncompressed (or losslessly compressed) files.
I'd love it when a company updates already replaced products, but it's more of a bonus than an expectation. Even Fuji eventually lets its older bodies go with a feature freeze at some point.
C'on. The saving of a larger file on the SD card might indeed take a bit longer and also maybe to have the image as internal JPG displayed on the camera screen - it would still be possible, just might take a bit longer - at least it would be nice to have the option, so the user can decide to go with compression or not. Yes, at some point older camera bodies won't be updated with firmware, but bodies just 2 years old?! In case Sony really moves ahead and only upgrades the new bodies with this firmware, they get a big minus from me regarding customer support. I disagree with you, I expect to get firmware upgrades for a fairly new camera even if it is not the latest model anymore (the A7R II was just released a few months ago only!).
p.17 #10 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
justruss wrote:
I don't know if it can all be attributed to that. It very well may be that the original mk1 bodies don't have the processing throughput or IO to handle uncompressed (or losslessly compressed) files.
I'd love it when a company updates already replaced products, but it's more of a bonus than an expectation. Even Fuji eventually lets its older bodies go with a feature freeze at some point.
"Eventually" is understandable, but Sony seem to give up on their older bodies after they release a new one - which could be as little as a years time
p.17 #11 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
I thought I read they would go back somewhere. Actually what they should do is charge a fee before the latest cam versions. This would give Sony incentive to make firmware for older products. Say 2 years but there maybe also camera limitations that can't take this firmware .
p.17 #12 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
GMPhotography wrote: Converting to DNG is not the answer. I'm pretty sure when you do that you lose all of Sonys tags and profiles built into the file.
What is in the Sony tags or profiles that I would want? Why is that critically important data? Guess I just don't know what I'm missing there.
I am not asking "Is converting to DNG the answer?" I am merely asking what converting to DNG would do to the final file size of an uncompressed raw file.
p.17 #13 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
GMPhotography wrote:
I thought I read they would go back somewhere. Actually what they should do is charge a fee before the latest cam versions. This would give Sony incentive to make firmware for older products. Say 2 years but there maybe also camera limitations that can't take this firmware .
Why should they charge a fee to be able to upgrade previous bodies??!! Or is this just sarcasm ? That service is in the price which you pay for the camera itself!
p.17 #14 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
Warranty ends after 1 year. This is the issue everyone wants this stuff for free. Hell I shoot for money ask if I'll do something for free. Everyone needs to keep the train rolling if there is no money in a older product than it takes away current revenue. Companies don't work like that it's all based on shareholder profit. It costs a lot of money to do firmware. Engineers are very expensive to keep as employees if there working on old product than there not working on new product and new revenue. Why you don't see firmware updates so much in some products. Leica is bad too. So charge for it . It helps offset the costs, more incentive for the OEN to do it too.
p.17 #15 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
If it's a manufacturing issue sure they should do it but optional after the fact I'm for charging for it. Otherwise you will be paying for it in new product for sure.
p.17 #16 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
I'm just not convinced that it's so trivial for Sony to flip a switch and get this to work on older cameras.
If it were so easy why has it already taken so long to get a firmware out for the A7rII? And why couldn't they have rolled it into the long exposure firmware "fix?"
My guess is that it's not totally trivial even in the latest cameras. And potentially not feasible in the older ones.
p.17 #17 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
retrofocus wrote:
Sounds like owners of the older A7 series cameras are left out here.....marketing strategy to push towards the latest camera models.
That would be my guess. Why would they spend time and money in order to make people less likely to upgrade. That's just not how the camera business works.
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justruss wrote:
I don't know if it can all be attributed to that. It very well may be that the original mk1 bodies don't have the processing throughput or IO to handle uncompressed (or losslessly compressed) files.
I'm sorry I just don't buy that argument - the A900 could handle uncompressed 24 megapixel RAW files way back in 2008. The A7R can handle three times the data throughput of the A7s with the same chipset so they should at the very very least be able to bring uncompressed RAW to the A7s. If they don't it will be for financial not technical reasons.
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darbo wrote:
I am not asking "Is converting to DNG the answer?" I am merely asking what converting to DNG would do to the final file size of an uncompressed raw file.
DNG has a lossless compression option, same as Canon's I think so that ought to shrink the files down to about 50MB or so.
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justruss wrote:
My guess is that it's not totally trivial even in the latest cameras. And potentially not feasible in the older ones.
Porting the code from one firmware branch to another is going to incur a large amount of testing (you really don't want to introduce bugs into the firmware). This takes resources away from developing the next generation of products which is a much more profitable activity than giving things away for free.
p.17 #18 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
Matt Grum wrote:
That would be my guess. Why would they spend time and money in order to make people less likely to upgrade. That's just not how the camera business works.
Well, guess what - if this is the way how Sony handles it, I will think twice purchasing a new Sony camera in the future especially since several issues had to be fixed firmware-wise with the A7R in the first place. To desert loyal customers after 1-2 years of using one of the first A7 series cameras is simply bad.
Sorry, but if people here are saying that this update should be not fee for people who didn't buy the A7R II (yet), this is just to show off to defend that they vested into the ridiculous initial sales price of $3200 and others who didn't shouldn't benefit.
p.17 #19 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
retrofocus wrote:
Sorry, but if people here are saying that this update should be not fee for people who didn't buy the A7R II (yet), this is just to show off to defend that they vested into the ridiculous initial sales price of $3200 and others who didn't shouldn't benefit.
I'm not saying the update shouldn't be rolled out to mark I owners at all. I'd love it if it was - it certainly wouldn't make me feel any better about buying an A7RII to know A7R owners didn't get the update. I'm just being a realist and saying it probably wont. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this.
p.17 #20 · Uncompressed 14 bit for A7sii and A7rii
Matt Grum wrote:
I'm not saying the update shouldn't be rolled out to mark I owners at all. I'd love it if it was - it certainly wouldn't make me feel any better about buying an A7RII to know A7R owners didn't get the update. I'm just being a realist and saying it probably wont. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this.
Matt, my statement in the second paragraph was not directed against you but to another poster. I agree with you, and I also believe that Sony won't release this update to the first generation of A7 cameras (I don't think it is due to hardware but simply for marketing reasons). All I am doing is expressing my non-consent if Sony decides to do so.
? That service is in the price which you pay for the camera itself!