Archive 2015 · A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
p.7 #1A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
Fred Miranda wrote:
How infinity do you want? Is 30 meters infinity on a 15mm focal length? The difference in rotation of the focusing ring from 30 meters to infinity is is barely perceptible and I could not get the corners any better or worse than what I showed.You're totally right. The importance of 'absolute infinity' for testing smearing or vigneting is hugely overstated. Like you say, shooting a 15mm.lens at 30mtr of distance, is 2000 times the focal lenght -> infinity to practical effects.
Let's do some basic calculation. Suppose that, at infinity, the angle of incidence in the corners of this 15mm. lens is 30º, relative to the optical axis. When you refocus from infinity to 30 mtr. the optics of the lens move forward 0.008 mm. ( yes, eight microns) and the angle of incidence decreases from 30º to 29.995º. Do you guys really believe that this minuscule difference can be of any significance regarding smearing or vigneting ?The smearing at the extreme edges I'm seeing happens at infinity and 15-20 feet. I posted crops of both.
So, yes, we don't need to test it at infinity to see the issue, it's just how I prefer to test.
This is the only copy I've tested so far so I can't be sure this is how the lens really performs.
Correction. After re-analyzing my crops, the closer range tests (15-20 feet) show less of an issue on the extreme edges. It's still there but not very noticeable. Only the infinity test shows very noticeable drop in resolution on the last couple millimeters.
artur5 wrote
jhinkey wrote
Zony_user wrote
Guys, none of your photos are at infinity like Fred's....Let's do some basic calculation. Suppose that, at infinity, the angle of incidence in the corners of this 15mm. lens is 30º, relative to the optical axis. When you refocus from infinity to 30 mtr. the optics of the lens move forward 0.008 mm. ( yes, eight microns) and the angle of incidence decreases from 30º to 29.995º. Do you guys really believe that this minuscule difference can be of any significance regarding smearing or vigneting ?
So, yes, we don't need to test it at infinity to see the issue, it's just how I prefer to test.
This is the only copy I've tested so far so I can't be sure this is how the lens really performs.
Correction. After re-analyzing my crops, the closer range tests (15-20 feet) show less of an issue on the extreme edges. It's still there but not very noticeable. Only the infinity test shows very noticeable drop in resolution on the last couple millimeters.
Aug 30, 2015 at 03:30 PM
p.7 #2A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
Fred Miranda wrote:
How infinity do you want? Is 30 meters infinity on a 15mm focal length? The difference in rotation of the focusing ring from 30 meters to infinity is is barely perceptible and I could not get the corners any better or worse than what I showed.You're totally right. The importance of 'absolute infinity' for testing smearing or vigneting is hugely overstated. Like you say, shooting a 15mm.lens at 30mtr of distance, is 2000 times the focal lenght -> infinity to practical effects.
Let's do some basic calculation. Suppose that, at infinity, the angle of incidence in the corners of this 15mm. lens is 30º, relative to the optical axis. When you refocus from infinity to 30 mtr. the optics of the lens move forward 0.008 mm. ( yes, eight microns) and the angle of incidence decreases from 30º to 29.995º. Do you guys really believe that this minuscule difference can be of any significance regarding smearing or vigneting ?The smearing at the extreme edges I'm seeing happens at infinity and 15-20 feet. I posted crops of both.
So, yes, we don't need to test it at infinity to see the issue, it's just how I prefer to test.
This is the only copy I've tested so far so I can't be sure this is how the lens really performs.Correction. After re-analyzing my crops, the closer range tests (15-20 feet) show less of an issue on the extreme edges. It's still there but not very noticeable. Only the infinity test shows very noticeable drop in resolution on the last couple millimeters.
Yes, 15 feet is just way too close, and again the source of much initial confusion on performance. Nevertheless relevant, since it's good to know if my edges might be weak when the subject is out there, closer in they will be basically good. The long infinity is the critical test, and after awhile you will predict 15ft performance from the degree of "smearing" with the infinity edges.
50 Lux ASPH on the A7s is a good example of this. When the subjects are fairly close in, or at portrait distance, it looks pretty darn good. But landscape, something at which this lens is spectacular, is a mess on the A7s. Much worse than the cron.
gyoung143 wrote:
I for one am very grateful for all the work you have put into this, and others too on FM.
It has helped me understand what is going on with the A7 and my motley collection of leica and Nikon mount lenses, and to do some of my own 'tests' to pick out the gems and isolate those which dont perform as I need them too.
Thanks again, Gerry
TY for kind words, Gerry. It's been quite a puzzle
The real hero is Michael, who got Kolari going on a great fix. Best 400USD I've spent in years. I'm rewarding my A7.mod with a new Angello Pelle case:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/98/56/16/985616b13f6bb58d0a0585a5e6314841.jpg
and here's the part I like since I drag things around on my motorbike in the backcountry alot:
http://www.angelo-pelle.com/images/A7R-WWI-BACK.jpg
Fred Miranda wrote
artur5 wrote
jhinkey wrote
Zony_user wrote
Guys, none of your photos are at infinity like Fred's....Let's do some basic calculation. Suppose that, at infinity, the angle of incidence in the corners of this 15mm. lens is 30º, relative to the optical axis. When you refocus from infinity to 30 mtr. the optics of the lens move forward 0.008 mm. ( yes, eight microns) and the angle of incidence decreases from 30º to 29.995º. Do you guys really believe that this minuscule difference can be of any significance regarding smearing or vigneting ?
So, yes, we don't need to test it at infinity to see the issue, it's just how I prefer to test.
This is the only copy I've tested so far so I can't be sure this is how the lens really performs.
Yes, 15 feet is just way too close, and again the source of much initial confusion on performance. Nevertheless relevant, since it's good to know if my edges might be weak when the subject is out there, closer in they will be basically good. The long infinity is the critical test, and after awhile you will predict 15ft performance from the degree of "smearing" with the infinity edges.
50 Lux ASPH on the A7s is a good example of this. When the subjects are fairly close in, or at portrait distance, it looks pretty darn good. But landscape, something at which this lens is spectacular, is a mess on the A7s. Much worse than the cron.
gyoung143 wrote:
I for one am very grateful for all the work you have put into this, and others too on FM.
It has helped me understand what is going on with the A7 and my motley collection of leica and Nikon mount lenses, and to do some of my own 'tests' to pick out the gems and isolate those which dont perform as I need them too.
Thanks again, Gerry
TY for kind words, Gerry. It's been quite a puzzle
The real hero is Michael, who got Kolari going on a great fix. Best 400USD I've spent in years. I'm rewarding my A7.mod with a new Angello Pelle case:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/98/56/16/985616b13f6bb58d0a0585a5e6314841.jpg
and here's the part I like since I drag things around on my motorbike in the backcountry alot:
http://www.angelo-pelle.com/images/A7R-WWI-BACK.jpg
Aug 30, 2015 at 05:30 PM
p.7 #3A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
Fred Miranda wrote:
It has a 58mm filter thread but I heard that the previous version (52mm) was not very filter friendly.
I wanted to use a ND on it or even a variable ND. (Tiffen)
FredI just have a clear B+W MRC on mine (came with it from Camera Quest). Have not tried an ND (or a CPL in place of an ND in a pinch).It is a thin filter? Does it hard vignette at all? If it does not, I may get a few NDs instead of a variable.
The variable I use on the 16-35/4 is the B+W XS-Pro and it's very high quality. They have a 58mm version and it's thin. Not sure if thin enough for 15mm though. Here are the pictures of it:
It's not the thin version.
jhinkey wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
Has anyone tried using filters with the CV15 III ?It has a 58mm filter thread but I heard that the previous version (52mm) was not very filter friendly.
I wanted to use a ND on it or even a variable ND. (Tiffen)
Fred
The variable I use on the 16-35/4 is the B+W XS-Pro and it's very high quality. They have a 58mm version and it's thin. Not sure if thin enough for 15mm though. Here are the pictures of it:
It's not the thin version.
Aug 30, 2015 at 08:15 PM
p.7 #4A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
I have that same uv filter from camera quest. I just ordered a regular polarizer for it. Get it Monday..
No issues with vignetting with regular filter.
I want to build , have made a 58 to 67 filter tube or something to get past the hood but I'm afraid it may vignette. That's the only thing that bugs me is the hood. I even thought about cutting it off. This way I can use same 67 filter with my Batis 25 and 85. Having three lenses in the field that can share the same filter size would be great.
No issues with vignetting with regular filter.
I want to build , have made a 58 to 67 filter tube or something to get past the hood but I'm afraid it may vignette. That's the only thing that bugs me is the hood. I even thought about cutting it off. This way I can use same 67 filter with my Batis 25 and 85. Having three lenses in the field that can share the same filter size would be great.
Aug 30, 2015 at 08:57 PM
p.7 #5A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
GMPhotography wrote:
I have that same uv filter from camera quest. I just ordered a regular polarizer for it. Get it Monday..
No issues with vignetting with regular filter.
I want to build , have made a 58 to 67 filter tube or something to get past the hood but I'm afraid it may vignette. That's the only thing that bugs me is the hood. I even thought about cutting it off. This way I can use same 67 filter with my Batis 25 and 85. Having three lenses in the field that can share the same filter size would be great.
Cutting off is not a bad idea as it is somewhat ineffective. If you find a way or someone that can do a clean job, let me know.
I will try a variable ND on it and report back.
I have that same uv filter from camera quest. I just ordered a regular polarizer for it. Get it Monday..
No issues with vignetting with regular filter.
I want to build , have made a 58 to 67 filter tube or something to get past the hood but I'm afraid it may vignette. That's the only thing that bugs me is the hood. I even thought about cutting it off. This way I can use same 67 filter with my Batis 25 and 85. Having three lenses in the field that can share the same filter size would be great.
Cutting off is not a bad idea as it is somewhat ineffective. If you find a way or someone that can do a clean job, let me know.
I will try a variable ND on it and report back.
Aug 31, 2015 at 08:46 AM
p.7 #6A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
Fred these guys are some of the best in the business at this stuff. I have not contacted them yet and heading out for vacation. But this would be my first choice
http://www.skgrimes.com
http://www.skgrimes.com
Aug 31, 2015 at 01:24 PM
p.7 #7A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
I will try my dremel and get back. .
I made my own cap for the 15 III. The lens cap that comes with it, at least on mine, doesn't fit well and will fall off easily unless I really take my time to make sure it in the threads, which is a pain so I made a slip over the outside friction held in place type of cap. As I go cross county a lot (hiking) I don't like a front element being exposed as it could bang into a rock, etc, which has happened to my 24/70L II. That is also why I always use a hood, besides its other benefits.
Edited on Aug 31, 2015 at 01:49 PM · View previous versions
I made my own cap for the 15 III. The lens cap that comes with it, at least on mine, doesn't fit well and will fall off easily unless I really take my time to make sure it in the threads, which is a pain so I made a slip over the outside friction held in place type of cap. As I go cross county a lot (hiking) I don't like a front element being exposed as it could bang into a rock, etc, which has happened to my 24/70L II. That is also why I always use a hood, besides its other benefits.
Edited on Aug 31, 2015 at 01:49 PM · View previous versions
Aug 31, 2015 at 01:32 PM
p.7 #8A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
Ordered the CV15 III today for the A7RII. Looking forward to it arriving. Thanks for the info
Aug 31, 2015 at 01:33 PM
p.7 #9A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
xpfloyd wrote:
Ordered the CV15 III today for the A7RII. Looking forward to it arriving. Thanks for the info
Remember it's not a perfect rectilinear wide angle, but it's one of the best available for sure.
Ordered the CV15 III today for the A7RII. Looking forward to it arriving. Thanks for the info
Remember it's not a perfect rectilinear wide angle, but it's one of the best available for sure.
Aug 31, 2015 at 06:59 PM
p.7 #10A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
GMPhotography wrote:
Fred these guys are some of the best in the business at this stuff. I have not contacted them yet and heading out for vacation. But this would be my first choice
http://www.skgrimes.com
You read my mind!! I contacted them this morning before even seeing your link. They can do the job and I'm waiting on the details. I will keep you guys posted.
Fred these guys are some of the best in the business at this stuff. I have not contacted them yet and heading out for vacation. But this would be my first choice
http://www.skgrimes.com
You read my mind!! I contacted them this morning before even seeing your link. They can do the job and I'm waiting on the details. I will keep you guys posted.
Aug 31, 2015 at 07:35 PM
p.7 #11A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
Thanks Fred. Yes keep us posted please . Oh get turn time if you can. Thanks
Aug 31, 2015 at 08:56 PM
p.7 #12A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
GMPhotography wrote:
Thanks Fred. Yes keep us posted please . Oh get turn time if you can. Thanks
I'm about to send mine in.
I asked them a couple questions and here is their answer:
"1) Can you guys make the cut-out section match the rest of the body? (paint matching, smoothness, etc.)" -
The aluminum is anodized with a black finish. We can either use some black paint on the edge, which is the least intrusive option or potentially have the part stripped and re-black anodized. The later option may result in a ring with a slightly different black finish.
"2) Is it going to be flat like the section without any hood?" -
We can cut the hood to be a smooth surface, consistent with the rest of the housing.
________________
On 1), what do you guys think is the best option?
Fred
Thanks Fred. Yes keep us posted please . Oh get turn time if you can. Thanks
I'm about to send mine in.
I asked them a couple questions and here is their answer:
"1) Can you guys make the cut-out section match the rest of the body? (paint matching, smoothness, etc.)" -
The aluminum is anodized with a black finish. We can either use some black paint on the edge, which is the least intrusive option or potentially have the part stripped and re-black anodized. The later option may result in a ring with a slightly different black finish.
"2) Is it going to be flat like the section without any hood?" -
We can cut the hood to be a smooth surface, consistent with the rest of the housing.
________________
On 1), what do you guys think is the best option?
Fred
Sep 01, 2015 at 12:10 PM
p.7 #13A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
Personally I would be happy with the painted edge option however it may affect your resale value (but so might cutting the hood I suppose). The re-anodizing option sounds like it would be the best option in terms of making it look like a factory finish but like they say it may be a bigger mismatch to the rest of the body.
Sep 01, 2015 at 12:40 PM
p.7 #14A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm about to send mine in.
I asked them a couple questions and here is their answer:
"1) Can you guys make the cut-out section match the rest of the body? (paint matching, smoothness, etc.)" -
The aluminum is anodized with a black finish. We can either use some black paint on the edge, which is the least intrusive option or potentially have the part stripped and re-black anodized. The later option may result in a ring with a slightly different black finish.
"2) Is it going to be flat like the section without any hood?" -
We can cut the hood...Show more →
Oh! I am anxious to hear how this goes! I'd love to fit this with a Variable ND or try to fit my Lee Filter holder to see if it vignettes. Using an Variable-ND with the existing hood would simply be a PITA!
On #1 - it seems like painting the edge might be a preferred first option especially with a smooth finish and as a proof of concept on filter use, vignetting, etc. I suppose one could then decide whether re-anodizing is worth it.
GMPhotography wrote
Thanks Fred. Yes keep us posted please . Oh get turn time if you can. ThanksI asked them a couple questions and here is their answer:
"1) Can you guys make the cut-out section match the rest of the body? (paint matching, smoothness, etc.)" -
The aluminum is anodized with a black finish. We can either use some black paint on the edge, which is the least intrusive option or potentially have the part stripped and re-black anodized. The later option may result in a ring with a slightly different black finish.
"2) Is it going to be flat like the section without any hood?" -
We can cut the hood...Show more →
Oh! I am anxious to hear how this goes! I'd love to fit this with a Variable ND or try to fit my Lee Filter holder to see if it vignettes. Using an Variable-ND with the existing hood would simply be a PITA!
On #1 - it seems like painting the edge might be a preferred first option especially with a smooth finish and as a proof of concept on filter use, vignetting, etc. I suppose one could then decide whether re-anodizing is worth it.
Sep 01, 2015 at 02:34 PM
p.7 #15A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
SK Grimes has done excellent work for me in the past both while Steve was still alive and also after Adam had taken over the business.
Rich
Rich
Sep 01, 2015 at 02:51 PM
p.7 #16A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
I would go for the painted edge . My plan would keep a 58 to 67 step up ring. Use one or two empty 67 filter rings, that would be the new hood. Secondly I could just unscrew the hood part leave the step up on and use 67 filters. One thing I don't do is use lens caps so some form of hood I like to have.
Side bar I use on all my lenses cheap metal screw in hoods I get off eBay. They stay on all the time and use no caps. Put originals in box and save them if I resale. Been doing this for years . Never scratched a lens yet.
Side bar I use on all my lenses cheap metal screw in hoods I get off eBay. They stay on all the time and use no caps. Put originals in box and save them if I resale. Been doing this for years . Never scratched a lens yet.
Sep 01, 2015 at 03:05 PM
p.7 #17A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
Fred any kind of cost structure they give you. I mean I would not sneeze at 100 dollars
Sep 01, 2015 at 03:07 PM
p.7 #18A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
GMPhotography wrote:
Fred any kind of cost structure they give you. I mean I would not sneeze at 100 dollars
They gave me a rough price that you may like.
I will send mine in a few days.
Fred
Fred any kind of cost structure they give you. I mean I would not sneeze at 100 dollars
They gave me a rough price that you may like.
I will send mine in a few days.
Fred
Sep 01, 2015 at 03:19 PM
p.7 #19A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
^ That's pretty good news!
Sep 01, 2015 at 03:23 PM
p.7 #20A7RII Voigtlander 15/4.5 and 21/4 wide angle lenses
That's Awesome Fred I'll send mine next week when I get home. There going to get a lot of these.
Fred thanks for doing the leg work. Appreciate that
Fred thanks for doing the leg work. Appreciate that
Sep 01, 2015 at 04:30 PM