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Archive 2015 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions
  
 
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #1 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


So, just received the Nest Carbon Fiber gimbal head, as described here:

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-177525-1.html

http://www.cameracottage.com/equipment

Looks really good in most respects: solid, well-built, light, and very smooth. Both the tilt and pan are fluid-dampened. Which certainly helps for a really, really, nice feel in tilting/panning, as well as some great security when the balance goes off (e.g., with a zoom lens extending/retracting). A note in the package gives some tips on ensuring that the fluid is distributed across all parts before first use, and I did this, though, even before doing this I did not think there was any issues on smoothness. One worry is that the same note indicates that this means that, due to the fluid, some parts may stiffen up with increased resistance in cold. It does not suggest that it will lock up, but just that in cold conditions the resistance may increase such that with a light rig and a light tripod, tilt movements may result in the tripod being lifted. Not a good thing to find out! So, I am doing the famous freezer test (i.e., put head in freezer; wait 24 hours; try it out) even as I type this; will post results by tomorrow.

One thing to note is that, in addition to issues highlighted by Dan/riokid in this thread and this thread, the clamp on the cradle does not fit all plates. The Jobu site has a blog post that discusses the differences between the "Pacific Rim" and the "North American" Arca-Swiss standards, with a shallower groove. Well, this might be the case here, except the results are a little inconsistent:

- My Kirk foot simply does not slide into the cradle. The angle of the groove is too steep.
- My RRS (small/short) lens plate has no problem.
- My RRS 6D L-bracket fits in fine in the portrait orientation, but not in landscape.
- My large Wimberley plate fits in fine.
- My large Hejnar plate does not fit in at all (like the Kirk).

Go figure.

I am stuck with the Kirk foot due to a previous incident documented here, so now my recourse is to attach the native NEST foot to the bottom of the Kirk foot. Not ideal.
May 17, 2015 at 12:16 AM
GWMT
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p.1 #2 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


I live in the same town as camera cottage, and bought the first version of this, I will be interested to the rest of your impressions.
May 17, 2015 at 12:25 AM
EB-1
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p.1 #3 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


It's not that difficult to make a screw clamp that fits multiple plates. You'd think they would do some prototype testing with the major brands of plates.

EBH
May 17, 2015 at 12:36 AM
sjms
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p.1 #4 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


could you do some close-ups of the angle differences at the interface? some things don't quite make sense like the L plate fitting one way but not the other.

looking for a view like this:

a RRS lever clamp and a Kirk macro rail interface






Edited on May 17, 2015 at 04:35 PM · View previous versions
May 17, 2015 at 07:28 AM
EB-1
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p.1 #5 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


sjms wrote:
could you do some close-ups of the angle differences at the interface? some things don't quite make sense like the L plate fitting one way but not the other.

Many tears ago I also had an L bracket that fit better one way than the other. The A-S area is often longer on the camera base and shorter on the left side, but they were otherwise not exactly the same shape.

EBH
May 17, 2015 at 10:25 AM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #6 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


So freezer test was a fail.

At least, initially, with the (relatively light) weight of a EF 100-400 II + ungripped 6D. The resistance was too stiff to comfortably tilt and pan. Not stuck as such, but definitely more force than I would be happy with. In about 30 seconds to a minute outside the freezer, everything loosened up enough to work fine. I am certain that with a heavier lens or maybe even with just the extra the lever-based torque of, e.g., a flash mounted on a tall flash bracket, there will be enough force exerted in the load to overcome the increased resistance be able to maintain smooth pan and tilting. But, as things stand, in sub-freezing conditions with a light load, this gimbal is a no go.

I will probably still keep it, though. It works really nicely in all other aspects. I figure that if I do go out and shoot in sub-freezing conditions, I will fallback on my trusty Markins (which, despite lots of rumors to the contrary, did pass the freezer test with flying colors), as this can be "psuedo-gimballed" up with the BV-22 attachment. Alternatively, I might try out a neoprene wrap. As with outdoor taps, sometimes even an apparently minor thermal buffer/protection can make the difference between freezing and not freezing, so if the neoprene is thick enough to trap sufficient air and cut well enough to allow for movement yet protect the fluid, this might work. Of course, depending on my fortitude of spirit, in sub-freezing conditions I might just try out a completely different approach: fireplace + hot chocolate and/or a stiffer beverage of choice!

Edited on May 17, 2015 at 10:45 AM · View previous versions
May 17, 2015 at 10:39 AM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #7 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


sjms wrote:
could you do some close-ups of the angle differences at the interface? some things don't quite make sense like the L plate fitting one way but not the other.

looking for a view like this:

Hi sjms,

Will do, but not sure if I can get around to it till the end of the week (preparing for a workshop presentation).

EBH is right: the dimensions are not quite equal on the L-bracket, and on side is longer but narrower than the other.

Also, on close examination, with the Kirk foot at least the problem appears to be just with the way the front of the plate is designed, where the groove actually curves slightly upwards. The rear does not have a such a curve, and you can actually fit the plate in this way, though it is a very, very, very, very, very tight fit (i.e., it does not slide smoothly).
May 17, 2015 at 10:43 AM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #8 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


GWMT wrote:
I live in the same town as camera cottage, and bought the first version of this, I will be interested to the rest of your impressions.

Is your version with or without the fluid dampening? I assume that you have used in the MT winter? How did it do in the cold? What is the load you are putting on it? How did it hold up? Would be really interested in your impressions as well!

Edited on May 17, 2015 at 11:10 AM · View previous versions
May 17, 2015 at 10:46 AM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #9 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


EB-1 wrote:
It's not that difficult to make a screw clamp that fits multiple plates. You'd think they would do some prototype testing with the major brands of plates.

EBH

You would think!


May 17, 2015 at 10:47 AM
sjms
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p.1 #10 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


EB-1 wrote:
Many tears ago I also had an L bracket that fit better one way than the other. The A-S area is often longer on the camera base and shorter on the left side, but they were otherwise not exactly the same shape.

EBH

never had that issue with any of the L plates i owned from the 1Ds through to today's D4s and that's more then a few L's in that stream. i also pretty much stay with a consistent manufacturer.

Edited on May 17, 2015 at 04:01 PM · View previous versions
May 17, 2015 at 12:26 PM
sjms
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p.1 #11 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


jeetsukumaran wrote:
Hi sjms,

Will do, but not sure if I can get around to it till the end of the week (preparing for a workshop presentation).

EBH is right: the dimensions are not quite equal on the L-bracket, and on side is longer but narrower than the other.

Also, on close examination, with the Kirk foot at least the problem appears to be just with the way the front of the plate is designed, where the groove actually curves slightly upwards. The rear does not have a such a curve, and you can actually fit the plate in this way, though it is...Show more →

no hurry. i'd just like to see the real world differences on the no fit to fit.

as to the "freezer test", is the issue attributed to mechanical issues or lubricant issues?

CF has a low coefficient of expansion/contraction (pretty much non existent) metal alloys will vary.
lubricants can/will have a great affect but these can be changed out with relative ease on a product such as this.
May 17, 2015 at 12:27 PM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #12 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


sjms wrote:
no hurry. i'd just like to see the real world differences on the no fit to fit.

as to the "freezer test", is the issue attributed to mechanical issues or lubricant issues?

CF has a low coefficient of expansion/contraction (pretty much non existent) metal alloys will vary.
lubricants can/will have a great affect but these can be changed out with relative ease on a product such as this.

The accompanying documentation implies that the issue is due to the thickening of the lubricant.

(Many, many, many apologies for the horrendous quality of the following, but it was a quick cell phone snap and hopefully it is still readable
May 17, 2015 at 02:03 PM
sjms
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p.1 #13 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


that says it all. oh well that throws a monkey wrench into my optional idea. you know sometimes the simple things in life give you the greatest options. now one most see how it operates continuously in "cold" weather. that is at what rate/temp does it take to create a consistant issue and them truly make it unbearable to use.
May 17, 2015 at 02:06 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #14 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


Yikes. I'm sticking with the Wimberleys.

EBH
May 17, 2015 at 03:48 PM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #15 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


EB-1 wrote:
Yikes. I'm sticking with the Wimberleys.

EBH

Yep. Not ideal!

But, also, not necessarily damning.

To keep things in perspective, my freezer is at least -20C/-4F, if not colder (it could actually be colder, but -20 is the limit of the cheapo outdoor thermometer I stuck in there.) And the head was in there for quite a while. So, one thing is clear, if you are going to be shooting in -20C or colder for several hours, then this gimbal head is out. But, is that really a projected use-case? What might we be shooting then? Polar bears? Penguins? (Actually: that would be greeeeeeeat!). OK, granted -20C is not polar-cap extreme. Michigan gets down there pretty often. But it is still relatively extreme. And in that extreme use-case, everything else has to hold up as well, not just to the cold, but condensation and wind. Other elements of the photography system (which include the photographer) might fail before the gimbal. In my case, it could well be the photographer's spiritual fortitude! The last time I went out in -20F (which is, of course, quite a bit colder than -20C/4F), I could take about 1hr of it before rushing back to the cabin

So, as steve/sjms says, we really want to know is the rate/threshold of failure or failure profile. E.g., a plot with x-axis being the time of exposure and y-axis being the temperature and z-axis being some measure of acceptable/unacceptable resistance. Unfortunately, I do not have the equipment or time to carry out this experiment! So I am hoping for some real-world feedback for people who have used this head is fairly extreme winter conditions (short of 24 hours at -20C).

The other variable is, of course, load. As I said, the head did not freeze up entirely. It was just very, very, very stiff. I imagine with a heavier lens than the 100-400 it would work better. Even the addition of a flash on flash bracket might provide sufficient torque to overcome the resistance at manageable levels of pressure. I am going to see if this is the case when I get the time next week.

So, all in all, dings on:

(1) cradle plate compatibility
(2) extreme low-temperature performance

But positives are: very, very, very, very solid and smooth gimbal head as long as within its environmental performance envelope. Whether that performance envelope is big enough for my needs? I do not know yet ...

Edited on May 17, 2015 at 06:05 PM · View previous versions
May 17, 2015 at 05:59 PM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #16 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


Also, I imagine that this issue would effect all fluid-heads? Do people not use fluid-heads in sub-freezing temperatures, or are there just more robust lubricants used?
May 17, 2015 at 06:04 PM
sjms
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p.1 #17 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


well not knowing how exactly the methodolgy used in their head (is it just grease or is there an actual cartridge) i can't say. there are lots of products out there with varying qualities.
May 17, 2015 at 07:50 PM
Frogfish
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p.1 #18 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


jeetsukumaran wrote:
So freezer test was a fail.

At least, initially, with the (relatively light) weight of a EF 100-400 II + ungripped 6D. The resistance was too stiff to comfortably tilt and pan. Not stuck as such, but definitely more force than I would be happy with. In about 30 seconds to a minute outside the freezer, everything loosened up enough to work fine. I am certain that with a heavier lens or maybe even with just the extra the lever-based torque of, e.g., a flash mounted on a tall flash bracket, there will be enough force exerted in the load...Show more →

I have been using this gimbal for over a year now. It's very very good. In Jan/Feb this year I was up in Inner Mongolia to shoot Snowy Owls, amongst other owls, and daily temperatures were from -30C to -50C on our last day of shooting. I had zero problems with the fluid freezing up until the last day and the coldest temperatures.

On the last day the gimbal became much stiffer, though at no time impossible, to rotate. I still managed to get the shots I wanted though without any hassle. Note I had wrapped all of my equipment in a sort of duct tape, I'm not sure if that had any insulating affect or not.

The maximum time we were out of the 4x4 at any one time was around an hour or so though, so if you were trekking or otherwise outside for an extended period then the results might have been different.



May 17, 2015 at 11:30 PM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #19 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


Frogfish wrote:
I have been using this gimbal for over a year now. It's very very good. In Jan/Feb this year I was up in Inner Mongolia to shoot Snowy Owls, amongst other owls, and daily temperatures were from -30C to -50C on our last day of shooting. I had zero problems with the fluid freezing up until the last day and the coldest temperatures.

On the last day the gimbal became much stiffer, though at no time impossible, to rotate. I still managed to get the shots I wanted though without any hassle. Note I had wrapped all of my equipment in...Show more →

Great to hear!

Real-world experience like yours trumps any jury-rigged ad-hoc non-controlled pseudo-experiments like mine. -30C to -50C is rough going for everyone and everything concerned, and nice to know that the gimbal held up. I suspect that you might have been using a heavier load than me, and that probably helped? What did you have on it.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of duct tape were you using and why? Protection against scratches? Sand/grit getting in?

And I think driving around Inner Mongolia in winter in 4x4 in search of snowy owls is an AMAZING adventure!
May 18, 2015 at 12:21 AM
Frogfish
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p.1 #20 · Nest Gimbal Head -- First Impressions


jeetsukumaran wrote:
Great to hear!

Real-world experience like yours trumps any jury-rigged ad-hoc non-controlled pseudo-experiments like mine. -30C to -50C is rough going for everyone and everything concerned, and nice to know that the gimbal held up. I suspect that you might have been using a heavier load than me, and that probably helped? What did you have on it.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of duct tape were you using and why? Protection against scratches? Sand/grit getting in?

And I think driving around Inner Mongolia in winter in 4x4 in search of snowy owls is an AMAZING adventure!



I was using a D800E with 300/2.8 VRII and TC20EIII on a substantial Benro monopod. Total weight was around 5-6 kgs including the monopod.

I wrapped all of my equipment with a black version of normal duct tape (don't remember the brand - bought it from B&Q, a DIY superstore from the UK, in Shanghai) so that : a) so my fingers/face would not stick to any uncovered metal parts b) because I was sticking hand warmers onto the outside of the camera and c) protection.

If you would like to see the thread I wrote on FM it's here : https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1351239/0?keyword=Mongolia#12892104

My full Trip Report on Bird Forum is here : http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=299706
May 18, 2015 at 12:51 AM
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