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Archive 2015 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G
  
 
pjheller
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p.1 #1 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


Anybody have the opportunity to shoot with the new Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL ED VR lens. How does it compare to its predecessor (other than one-piece hood, a little lighter and a lot more expensive).

Is it worth the upgrade from the 400mm f/2.8G VR (especially if it could be purchased at a good price) ?




May 10, 2015 at 05:05 PM
Chris Court
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p.1 #2 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


I believe our Aussie comrade Lance B either owns one, or has used one recently. He would probably be a good first stop to answer your Qs.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1352055/0?keyword=2.8e,fl#12899421

C
May 10, 2015 at 08:42 PM
RoyC
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p.1 #3 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-400mm-f2-8e-vr

Take a look at the above link.
May 10, 2015 at 09:03 PM
Bill Graham
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p.1 #4 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


pjheller wrote:
Anybody have the opportunity to shoot with the new Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL ED VR lens. How does it compare to its predecessor (other than one-piece hood, a little lighter and a lot more expensive).

Is it worth the upgrade from the 400mm f/2.8G VR (especially if it could be purchased at a good price) ?



PJ,

If you can get it at a "good price" it's probably worth the upgrade(it was for me but I got mine at a very good price) just for the weight reduction and easier handling. Optically I'm not sure I can see any difference between the two, they're both fantastic lenses.

Brad Hill did a great comparison and review in his blog, scroll down to the 08-Feb-15 post for the comparison and follow his link to the review.
May 11, 2015 at 04:29 AM
pjheller
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p.1 #5 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


Thanks for the links (most of which I had already seen) and especially for the Brad Hill comparison. As he states about the 400mm f/2.8 lenses, “Simply put - glass just doesn't get any better than this.”

Doesn’t make it any easier to decide.


May 11, 2015 at 05:04 AM
bernardl
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p.1 #6 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


The only lens I have used that I would consider to be even a bit better than the new 400mm f2.8 E FL is the Otus 85mm f1.4.

The only thing I don't like about the 400mm f2.8 E FL is that corner light fall off is pretty important at f2.8 near infinity (a lot less so for closer subjects). This is corrected perfectly by Nikon Capture, but is a bit of a pain to correct with other raw software. Light fall off is probably around 2 stops and is very visible if the image is a bit under-exposed to start with.

Other than that, the lens is totally stellar.











Cheers,
Bernard
May 11, 2015 at 05:59 AM
Bill Graham
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p.1 #7 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


pjheller wrote:
Thanks for the links (most of which I had already seen) and especially for the Brad Hill comparison. As he states about the 400mm f/2.8 lenses, “Simply put - glass just doesn't get any better than this.”

Doesn’t make it any easier to decide.

Brad hasn't shot the 800E.




May 11, 2015 at 05:44 PM
RoyC
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p.1 #8 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


Bill Graham wrote:
Brad hasn't shot the 800E.



I suspect that there is not a lot of folks with one of each.


May 11, 2015 at 07:28 PM
Bill Graham
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p.1 #9 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


RoyC wrote:
I suspect that there is not a lot of folks with one of each.

Maybe so but they make a nice pair, don't they? You should know...

BTW, my apologies for twisting your arm and making you spend that $30K.


May 12, 2015 at 08:45 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #10 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


Yes, I purchased the 400 f2.8E FL VR about 2 months ago and it is a stunning lens, the best Nikon lens I have ever used and I say that owning quite a few top Nikon lenses including the 300 f2.8 VRII, 500 f4 VR and the 85 f1.4G. It is stupid sharp and has superb overall IQ. I also owned the Zeiss 135 f2 for a short while.

I was tossing up whether to buy the 400 f2.8 VRII lens a number of years ago, but was put off by it's weight, unwieldiness due to it's front heaviness, front mounted tripod mount and two piece lens hood. I therefore purchased the 500 f4 VR instead, which I have not regretted. Now that the new 400 f2.8E FL VR has been released, all that has changed. The new lens is almost identical in size, weight, balance as my 500 f4 VR and has a one piece lens hood. This all means that it fits into a back pack with other lenses which is very important for me, something that would have been impossible with the previous 400 f2.8 VRII.

Another major attribute is that it takes all the TC's with exemplary IQ and also importantly, it seems to not be affected at longer distances when using the TC's whereas other Nikon tele's seem to be best at the shorter subject distances. So, you have a 400 f2.8, a 560 f4, a 680 f4.8 and an 800 f5.6 all with excellent IQ, making for probably the most versatile lens that Nikon makes.

I cannot speak highly enough of this lens, it ticks all the boxes and does it with the best IQ of any lens that I have ever used. I guess you would expect this from a lens costing as much as it did, but it exceeded even my expectations.

See my 400 f2.8E FL VR sample gallery here. The photos are mainly taken with TC's attached, but there are also many with the lens bare:
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b/nikon_400_f28

Some examples:

Bare lens:
D810 + 400 f2.8E, f4, 1/800sec, ISO898



100% crop of above:



D810 + 400 f2.8E + 2x TCIII (800mm), f7.1, 1/800sec, ISO500 cropped about 15%.



100% crop of above original shot:



D810 + 400 f2.8E + 1.7x TCII (680mm), f4.8 WIDE OPEN, 1/3200sec, ISO400



100% crop of above:



D810 + 400 f2.8E + 1.7x TCII (680mm), f5.6, 1/3200sec, ISO64 cropped about 30%



VR works well, too. This shot at 1/15sec completely handheld no bracing!

D810 + 400 f2.8E, f4, 1/15sec, ISO1600
May 13, 2015 at 07:47 PM
architect7
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p.1 #11 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


Holy smokes that is insane detail, I love it!
May 13, 2015 at 09:48 PM
Bill Graham
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p.1 #12 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


The 800E is sharper wide open than the 400E either wide open or at 5.6, at least in my experience and that of a friend who also owns both. The 400E is maybe a tad sharper than the 400G but you have to look really hard to see any difference in testing, in real-world shooting it's a dead heat and the advantage goes to the E version for weight and handling if you can carry the cost. You don't have to delve into the deep pixel-peeping realm to see the difference between the new 400 and the 800, all you have to do is compare images on a decent monitor.

It's a fantastic piece of glass, no doubt about it. I'm happy with it but I was just as happy with the 400G except when it had to be hauled around. I'm glad I upgraded, no buyer's remorse although I wouldn't have done it if I'd had to pay list price for a new lens, I bought it used at a significant discount.

The 400E may be the sharpest Nikon lens some folks have shot with but I'll stand by my guns and say those folks haven't shot an 800. I have. If you really want to see what Nikon is capable of rent one for a week, you'll be amazed.

My not-so-humble $.02 worth.

Best,
Bill
May 15, 2015 at 09:39 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #13 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


Not trying to turn this into a pi55ing contest, but LenScore has the 400E as having more resolving power than the 800E, scoring 1466 to 1323, but I would suggest for all intents and purposes they are very close. The 400G gets a score of 1290, again very close.

The 400E also gets the highest overall score from LenScore at 1427, compared to the 800E at 1356 and the 400G at 1344. The 400E is the sharpest extreme tele lens they have tested and is only bettered by the Zeiss 85 f1.4 Otus at 1647, the Leica APO-Summicron 50 f2 at 1622, the Zeiss 55 f1.4 Otus at 1532 and the Leica Summilex 50 f1.4 at 1578. However, for overall score, the 400E is still second best of all the lenses at 1427 only behind the Zeiss 85 f1.4 Otus at 1459.

What does all this mean? Well, the testing was done on a 200Mp specially designed sensor, ie it takes a 200Mp sensor to see these minor differences in socre between the top performing lenses. They also take resolution measurements at different camera to subject distances, also across the lens frame and at different apertures, so quite a comprehensive set of readings to come to an overall result, not just at one camera to subject distance like just about every other testing site.

I think you'll find that your comment about the 400E and the 400G being a dead heat in real world shooting is probably similar to the 400E and 800E in real world shooting, ie very close if you were twice the distance away as the 400 when using the 800. What you are probably seeing is that the 800 has more reach and therefore gets closer to the subject and thus not needing to go as far as to pixel peep, whereas the 400E and 400G are the same focal length and therefore you pixel peep at the same size. To test the 800 against the 400 correctly, you would need to be twice as far from the subject as the 400.

Read about how LensScore tests lenses and the results:
http://www.lenscore.org/

Edited on Sep 22, 2015 at 08:03 AM · View previous versions
May 16, 2015 at 07:40 PM
dreamplayer
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p.1 #14 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


400 2.8 fl no doubt is good lens for sports. But if you are looking for reach, I prefer Nikon 800 fl or canon 600 f4 + 1.4iii . You Might see some great shots from 400 2.8 fl plus 2xTc, because they were shot in close distance so they are not cropped at 100% level.
May 16, 2015 at 08:08 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #15 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


dreamplayer wrote:
400 2.8 fl no doubt is good lens for sports. But if you are looking for reach, I prefer Nikon 800 fl or canon 600 f4 + 1.4iii . You Might see some great shots from 400 2.8 fl plus 2xTc, because they were shot in close distance so they are not cropped at 100% level.

"because they were shot in close distance so they are not cropped at 100% level" Please explain.

Firstly, the point of the discussion is the 400E vs the 400G, why people decided to introduce the 800 (and the Canon 600 f4 into a Nikon discussion) as some sort of a pi55ing contest I'll never know - actually I do know but it's probably best left unsaid. Secondly, the 400E plus TC's is much easier to cart around than either the 800E f5.6 or the Canon 600 f4. Thirdly, if you own Nikon, the Canon 600 f4 is irrelevent. Fourthly, if you need 400-599mm these other lenses are useless because if you also need a focal length of 400-599mm and that means that you then have to cart around the 400 as well as these other lenses, what a load! However, I doubt you'd see much difference if any between the Canon 600 f4 IS + 1.4x TC and the Nikon 400E f2.8 + 2x TCIII in real world shooting and on current res bodies. As for your condescending comment that the 400 f2.8 is "good for sports", then I have to completely disagree.

D810 + 400 f2.8 + 2x TCIII, f8, 1/800sec, ISO6400. cropped about 30%. Not the best capture as far as composition, but that is not the point. It was a quick grab shot as this guy is (a) an extremely rare bird (2000 left in the world) and (b) moves like lightening and I just wanted to get him any way I could.



D810 + 2x TCIII, f7.1, 1/800sec, ISO500, cropped about 15% for compositional purposes.



Here is a 100% crop of the original photo not this 20% crop above
May 16, 2015 at 09:55 PM
architect7
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p.1 #16 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


Lance, the feather detail in that first shot is incredible!
May 16, 2015 at 10:11 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #17 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


architect7 wrote:
Lance, the feather detail in that first shot is incredible!

Not bad is it.

Now you know why I am so impressed with it.


May 16, 2015 at 11:02 PM
leonkoum
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p.1 #18 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


My friend Lance...
No world to say...
The first on is SO INPRESSIVE
May 17, 2015 at 01:53 PM
architect7
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p.1 #19 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


Lance B wrote:
Not bad is it.

Now you know why I am so impressed with it.

Before I started following your work I was planning to buy a 500mm f4. Now I plan to find a good deal on the 400mm f2.8E and TC-14E III.


May 17, 2015 at 03:23 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #20 · Nikon 400mm f/2.8E FL vs 400mm f/2.8G


leonkoum wrote:
My friend Lance...
No world to say...
The first on is SO INPRESSIVE

Thank you very much for your kind comment, Leon!


May 17, 2015 at 05:02 PM
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