Archive 2015 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.39 #1 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Jman13 wrote:
Man, distortion or not, the rendering and detail shown in the digital Rev video for the 85/1.8 is just incredible. I fear I may succumb on that one sooner rather than later. If my FD 20/2.8 holds me over well enough, I think I'll divert my savings for the FE 16-35 towards the Batis 85. I'm looking forward to reviewing both the Batis lenses, though I fear they will accelerate GAS. I do wish the front diameter was smaller, though. I fear they are going to be a pain in most mirrorless kit type bags, much like the Touit 12 was. ...Show more →
Yeah, the length of these Batis lenses is not bad at all, but they are quite fat. I too really like the rendering from the 85 f/1.8 in the samples I have seen so far including in that video. I think it may have quite low CA outside of the focal plane (i.e., longitudinal CA), although I do think the bokeh may be a bit higher contrast than I would ideally want. Still it looks like a very nice lens and I don't think I will be bother by the distortion correction, but I could be wrong about that too.
Jun 19, 2015 at 12:44 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.39 #2 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
philber wrote:
Steve, I had that lens once, and really, really loved it on my NEX 7, though it required cornerfixing. It is one of the 4 lenses I regret selling, even though I can't consider myself poorly kitted out. Unless you object to slow speed, I recomment it very highly. If A7RII works better with wide M lenses, I would seriously consider buying it again.
Thanks for the comment and advice Phillipe. I very much trust your judgment. I think I will in the long run get the Leica M 24 Elmar. It looks like a terrific lens and it is wonderfully small. It will require getting the sensor modded though and I will have to wait to be sure that Kolari can mod the sensors with IBIS and especially the new sensor in the A7rII. A plus side of getting the sensor mod is that I can also get the Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4 (which will handle my uses for a fast wide very well) and it too will have optimal performance. Your samples (and Jako's) have convinced me that I would very much like that lens.
p.39 #3 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Matt Grum wrote:
Again, if done correctly it will make the centre sharper. When correcting barrel distortion you don't have to resample the centre of the image, as it typically moves less than a pixel. So you can leave the centre entirely alone. Now instead of bringing the corners in to maintain image size, if you bring them out to correct you end up with a larger image. Making the image larger without touching the centre means the centre is sharper when you consider the standard measures e.g. line pairs per picture height.
I'm sorry but your algorithm doesn't work - when you then start to touch center pixels? When it needs to be moved more than 0.49999999px or 0.9999999px? Adding artificial steps to algorithm just makes things multiple time worse: Abrupt artificial change, which has geometrical shape (circle). Really hard to figure out better way to make this artifact more visible and annoying to human eye.
Matt Grum wrote:
Speaking pixels being interpolated, this happens anyway when demosaicing. When talking about the "right" way to do distortion correction, that would be combining it with the demosaicing algorithm.
Current tools do it on separate steps; they don't combine demosaic process to distortion (or CA) correction. So getting "good results" in practice @ 2015 it's preferrable to have enough small distortion (and CA), so that one doesn't need to corrected in software (This is issue just for non-blind people who care about small texture and/or it's appearance in final product).
When/If your fancy method comes available it's on limited number of software and one may want to use some alternative software. I just can't see it working in practice even it's good in theory, sorry.
Good that we had this discussion. I haven't been using many minutes of time to this topic earlier, but now thinking it more I know to avoid lenses needing software correction. Luckily both Batis lenses don't need to be corrected in my nature photography. 25mm distortion is so small that it never needs to be corrected. But 85 may needs to be corrected on very small number of shots, but haven't been planning to get one (plans do change...).
p.39 #4 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Matt Grum wrote:
Unless you're an in-camera JPEG shooter, or you absolutely must have 100% accurate EVF framing, you can apply the same correction regardless of camera body. All RAW files require "correction" as they are monochromatic to begin with, and all RAW converters I know of offer distortion correction...
No lens is perfect, but if you'd rather have defects you can't correct instead of defects you can, then that's your choice at the end of the day, you're free to not buy these lenses. But don't be surprised if this approach (or more extreme versions) become the norm.
I still have to buy them (the two Batis lenses). I can't dislike something unless I've tried it.
I'm actually more concern about the plastic looking bokeh (high contrast bokeh) then I am about distortion. At the end of the day, I prefer the look of a lens more then anything else, though I would prefer not having optical corrections be a normal part of every day life. I'm smitten with the Q, and it has digital corrections, so who knows..
p.39 #5 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
The two Batis lenses, along with the FE 55/1.8 seem to me to absolutely knock the ball out of the park for autofocus lens IQ in a reasonable package.
I guess add in the 35/1.4 for completeness (although it's pretty big) and the 35 Sonnar as a compact walk-around lens, and you have a pretty awesome street shooter's dream kit. Just please give me an Alpha 5100 body with the A7R2 sensor
p.39 #6 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
The 25, 35 1.4 ( have it), either a Loxia 50( have it) or the 55 1.8 and the 85mm are going one helluva kit.
Thats my end goal along with my Minolta 200mm 2.8 which I may switch out(mental Debate) than just need a super wide. Im more interested on what are the next 8 lenses. From 25 down, 18 is a great focal length or a 16/17. Worst case maybe buy the Canon 17TSE again
p.39 #7 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
BTW I stayed out of this 85mm debate and its distortion. But I will give you the 21st Century answer. We will NEVER EVER see a lens at 1200 dollars be designed to the standards of yesteryear with film to put out distortion free lenses. To fix all the other aberrations in the lens which most cannot be done in post . Lens designers will do that in the design and take the least path to resistance to build a lens at the cost restraints given which leaves distortion correction the only real viable option to do easily and less destructive way in post. The lenses I spent 8 thousand dollars on will never be made again for digital output when lens designers can build for cheaper , pass the lower costs on to the consumer and either fix in camera or in post. Thats the new 21st Century lens design. Problem is everyone wants small, light, fast and cheap. That exclusive 4 does not coexist in lens design. Something has to give to achieve those 4 elements. Distortion is it, unless the lens design comes naturally without it or very little. In the 85mm case it does seem a little high, I agree with that. But not every image either needs or is even seen to need a fix
Jun 19, 2015 at 02:03 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.39 #8 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
GMPhotography wrote:
The 25, 35 1.4 ( have it), either a Loxia 50( have it) or the 55 1.8 and the 85mm are going one helluva kit.
Thats my end goal along with my Minolta 200mm 2.8 which I may switch out(mental Debate) than just need a super wide. Im more interested on what are the next 8 lenses. From 25 down, 18 is a great focal length or a 16/17. Worst case maybe buy the Canon 17TSE again
I think you are very likely to get your wish on the ultrawide end. I think it makes a lot of sense for Zeiss to make a Batis 18. On the long end, it might be tougher. I don't know who will make a 200mm. Would the Sony G 70-200 f/2.8 II that is coming out be of any interest? Could you live with the Canon 200 f/2.8L? Either of those two ought to work pretty well with the A7r II. I suppose you don't want manual focus but if you did I doubt you could beat the Leica R 180 f/2.8 APO. Sony might well make a 200 f/2.8 APO in their next batch of E mount lenses, but I fear it might take a year or two for them to get around to making it.
p.39 #9 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Steve I love the Minolta 200 but I don't think the Lae3 is going to work with all the AF points so either I use it with the lae4 like I do today or maybe get a Canon 200 2.8. I need a long fast 200 for a lot of corporate meeting type stuff. F4 glass is just not fast enough. But maybe there is a surprise with the new body. Just have to see how it really works. The lens is so good at 2.8 I don't want to give it up. Not sure any zoom can touch it wide open.
p.39 #13 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
There is an interview with Richard Schleuning, Marketing chief for Zeiss in the US, who says that Zeiss and Sony avoid releasing the same lens in their respective ranges. So, in my mind, it could well be that Zeiss don't follow the "usual" pattern by agreement with Sony.
Jun 20, 2015 at 03:05 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.39 #14 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
There are also the Loxia lenses to consider. I think it makes good sense that Zeiss and Sony don't bring out Sony/Zeiss and Zeiss Batis lenses that compete, but it seems clear that Loxia lenses can compete with Sony/Zeiss. I think the next two Loxia might well be a 28mm and a 21mm. Then they could come out with a Zeiss Batis 18mm that doesn't compete with the Loxia lenses or Sony/Zeiss lenses.
p.39 #18 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
But you hate Sony Sensors?
adamdewilde wrote:
I still have to buy them (the two Batis lenses). I can't dislike something unless I've tried it.
I'm actually more concern about the plastic looking bokeh (high contrast bokeh) then I am about distortion. At the end of the day, I prefer the look of a lens more then anything else, though I would prefer not having optical corrections be a normal part of every day life. I'm smitten with the Q, and it has digital corrections, so who knows..
