I would think that that would be a deterrent to many buyers who prefer the smaller sizes of the MF lenses like the Loxias which are perhaps even larger than the Leica M equivalents.
I know for me, unless I need AF I will stay with my combination of Minolta CLE MC 40mm M-Rokkor, Leica M, and Leica R lenses especially after I have the sensor stack of my A7r modified once the Schott sensor covers are again available.
p.32 #2 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I returned it for two reasons. 1) the front section of the barrel had slight mechanical play/ looseness (enough to make a clunking sound when the camera was held vertically) and 2) It was not sharp corner to corner at distance by F5.6/8 which I need for landscape use. Other - and cheaper - lenses are better for that use imo.
I find it interesting that you mention the clunking sound. I don't know if this is a first run/qa issue or what. But the first copy of the Loxia I purchased had this issue and I had it replaced by the dealer. The dealer acknowledged that this was not normal. Second copy was perfect.
p.32 #3 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
davewolfs wrote:
I find it interesting that you mention the clunking sound. I don't know if this is a first run/qa issue or what. But the first copy of the Loxia I purchased had this issue and I had it replaced by the dealer. The dealer acknowledged that this was not normal. Second copy was perfect.
Surprised lens was not sharp enough.
Zeiss adapted the ZM Biogon design with slight modification to account for the cover glass with the Loxia 35. The Loxia is a lot better on the A7's than the ZM but still suffers the drawback of the basic rangefinder optimized design when used at longer distances. At closer distances the Loxia performs very good even wide open. I think it's probably optimized for use at closer distances. It's not that it's that bad even at longer distances but rather it's just not as good as I had hoped given the price of entry (not noticeably better than my $100 Minolta MD 35/2.8 at distance). I would probably suggest either the FE 35/2.8 or new FE 28/2 over the Loxia 35 myself, particularly given the price difference (unless you need the clickless aperture feature for video the Loxia offers)
p.32 #4 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
naturephoto1 wrote:
I would think that that would be a deterrent to many buyers who prefer the smaller sizes of the MF lenses like the Loxias which are perhaps even larger than the Leica M equivalents.
I know for me, unless I need AF I will stay with my combination of Minolta CLE MC 40mm M-Rokkor, Leica M, and Leica R lenses especially after I have the sensor stack of my A7r modified once the Schott sensor covers are again available.
Rich
Hi Rich,
I think I might give this mod a try myself. Still no word yet with regard to resumed availability of new Schott sensor glass for the mod?
p.32 #5 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Hi Rich,
I think I might give this mod a try myself. Still no word yet with regard to resumed availability of new Schott sensor glass for the mod?
Hi Tariq,
Last I heard from Ilija at Kolari was April 29. Kolari was hoping for Schott to catch up in May on the the thin senor stack covers. Ilija was supposed to keep me informed about any updates but I have yet to hear a thing. I just sent him another e-mail to check to see if they have any updated information on the modification.
p.32 #6 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Tariq,
Last I heard from Ilija at Kolari was April 29, Kolari was hoping for Schott to catch up in May on the the thin senor stack covers. Ilija was supposed to keep me informed about any updates but I have yet to hear a thing. Perhaps I should send him another e-mail to check to see if they have any updated information on the modification.
p.32 #7 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Thanks Rich!
Hi Tariq,
I just updated my comment after having sent another e-mail off to Ilija. I will let you know his response. I am hoping to get down to Shenandoah NP later this week for about a week and trying to work the modification around other hoped travel plans of getting to Acadia NP later in the month as well.
p.32 #8 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
philip_pj wrote:
but the value of a flat field lens
+1 - this is issue on landscape photography with many Zeiss lenses, the main reason why I want to switch on wide end from ZE-series 2/25 to Batis 2/25 (or Otus wide which seems never coming). However outside landscape photography when shooting ordinary 3D subjects ZE 2/25 and most other lenses having field curvature are OK.
philip_pj wrote:
with well received bokeh qualities and
-1 - totally disagree, maybe so for common population, who are comparing to CaNikon or minaturesensor stuff (NEX, 4/3 etc.) are OK with the boke. If talking here on Alternative board then it's boke really isn't that great. Compared to Zeiss planars, Rokkor 58 etc. lenses known for their good boke the FE55 boke is really not up to same level as the focus plane stuff on FE55, which is pretty damn good on wider apertures.
philip_pj wrote:
high levels of performance across the frame
+1 - again very important factor on landscape photography
philip_pj wrote:
Zeiss lenses of course vary widely in OOF character, within and across ranges and eras - it seems of dubious value to refer to a Zeiss house style on this score.
Really Philip? ONE common Zeiss character on OOF is low contrast on boke over various different series lenses made over different eras on past +35 years. This can be seen on most lenses on mounts/series:
- Contax/Yashica mount
- Contax 645 (and other medium format they did back then, Hasselblad etc.)
- Contax N mount
- Contax G
- ZE/ZF
- ZM
- Otus
- Loxia
Can't comment on ZA (are they Zeiss designed? at least not branded - my box on 2.8/24-70 says "Sony" and is orange like usual Sony stuff?? Lens says Carl Zeiss but so does 1000 other lenses on camera phones etc. crappy image quality devices) or Touit (photos are hidden somewhere on miniatyre sensor threads which I don't follow) as I haven't seen enough photos on various lenses, and I don't shoot anything else than ZA 2.8/24-70.
I hope Batis 25 will be really good as landscape lens, as I just realized that Batis 25 is so light that it can be used on gimbals and multirotors made for GH1. Due to GH1 4K video capabilities it's very widely used/supported on pro aeriel video work. And GH1 being lighter and smaller than Canon 5DmkIII there are variety of smaller gimbals and multirotors, which work with A7+light lens, but D800/5DmkIII require larger ones. Finally I can get into pro quality aerial photography for cheaper price than my car (old Saab from 1998...) , which I have kept the "limit" for photography equipment purchases
p.32 #10 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Samuli, we had some threads on the ZEs when they arrived, many saw quite a few differences from CY, as do the video guys many of whom prefer the more organic drawing style in CY lenses. And similar threads re 50P and 50MP as well. So I must disagree with you, respectively of course ;-)
To add more to the bokeh question on the FE55 and maybe B85, it's my guess a lot of people actually prefer decent levels of contrast in OOF. It's a matter of preferences, I enjoy image content slowly accumulating graceful blur and shoot for it often, and prefer similar levels of contrast in all of it, so you see a tougher, more cinematic, self conscious rendering. I could be a philistine though. No handful of photograhers will ever agree on bokeh, will they?
To my knowledge, and I won't die in a ditch over it, ALL ZA Sony lenses (A/FE) are Sony designed, Zeiss provide QA/QC advise. Hence Zeiss marketing Batis as 'pure Zeiss'. The ZAs in A mount never convinced me but some love them.
Thanks, Charles, now I have arrived back in Nepal I can see so much more on the web. I'll visit LC and Zeiss now. Cheers.
p.32 #11 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
To my knowledge, and I won't die in a ditch over it, ALL ZA Sony lenses (A/FE) are Sony designed, Zeiss provide QA/QC advise. Hence Zeiss marketing Batis as 'pure Zeiss'. The ZAs in A mount never convinced me but some love them.
Pure Zeiss with AF, OIS, and maybe a little Tamron thrown in
p.32 #12 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
pdmphoto wrote:
Pure Zeiss with AF, OIS, and maybe a little Tamron thrown in
Without getting into specifics (I just erased a 2000 over word essay), let's just say the ZA line was horribly uncorrected and thus I had to sell off my A99 set, as it affected my work.
The other thing I wrote, was that I think for a long time Zeiss has missed the boat on what I like to see in a lens. To keep things short, I'll also mention that a lot of lens manufacturers seem to be influenced by this sharp subject plastic bokeh craze. I blame Steve Huff and the rest of those reviews. But again to keep things short. I wish Zeiss would really take a moment to look at classic cult lenses, and to try and replicate them, but pay very close attention to rendering and color characteristics (and how the lens reacts with modern sensors).
I am curious about the Batis lenses, partly because my wife refuses to use anything but the A7II (size/weight). Partly because I'm hoping that an "all zeiss" lens is going to be reminiscent of why I like Zeiss glass. However, judging by the Otis lenses, I have a feeling Zeiss has changed their design goals. Unfortunately I seem to be in the minority with my thoughts.
p.32 #13 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
adamdewilde wrote:
But again to keep things short. I wish Zeiss would really take a moment to look at classic cult lenses, and to try and replicate them, but pay very close attention to rendering and color characteristics (and how the lens reacts with modern sensors).
Isn't Loxia exactly that? Not perfect by any means, but very nice overall rendering...
p.32 #14 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Kalainen wrote:
Isn't Loxia exactly that? Not perfect by any means, but very nice overall rendering...
I'm not a huge fan of the Loxia lenses.. But sorry I think I should have mentioned AF versions of cult classics.
If I wanted to use MF lenses I could easily just pickup the C/Y 35/1.4 or etc.
p.32 #15 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Thanks Rich!
---------------------------------------------
naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Tariq,
I just updated my comment after having sent another e-mail off to Ilija. I will let you know his response. I am hoping to get down to Shenandoah NP later this week for about a week and trying to work the modification around other hoped travel plans of getting to Acadia NP later in the month as well.
Rich
Hi Tariq,
I heard from Ilija of Kolari regarding the corrosion resistant covers last evening.
This is a quote: "We just got news today that we will be getting more filters by the end of the week, so we will be ready to start modifying the cameras again next week!"
p.32 #16 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
adamdewilde wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the Loxia lenses.. But sorry I think I should have mentioned AF versions of cult classics.
If I wanted to use MF lenses I could easily just pickup the C/Y 35/1.4 or etc.
No problem, I was interested to hear how you feel about them.. :-)
p.32 #17 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
edwardkaraa wrote:
In my opinion the best displays are the old 72 ppi ones. The higher the pixel density the worse it gets in terms of viewing photos at 100% to judge sharpness. Granted the retina screens look gorgeous to display images but I'm not so sure about their usefulness to us photographers.
argh! i can't even look at pictures from normal distance on a 72 ppi screen. i don't just see the pixels, i see the 3 separate colors of each pixel. it gives me a headache.
adamdewilde wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the Loxia lenses.. But sorry I think I should have mentioned AF versions of cult classics.
If I wanted to use MF lenses I could easily just pickup the C/Y 35/1.4 or etc.
i was hoping that's what the loxia line would be (i don't want AF), but i don't really think the zm 35/2 or zm 50/2 as classic zeiss favorites. what other cult classics were you thinking of besides the c/y 35/1.4?
i was hoping for lenses with the looks of the contax g 21/2.8, contax g 28/2.8, c/y 35/1.4, zm 50/1.5 sonnar, and contarex 85/2 with modernized coatings, physical and electronic aperture, and well built compact designs.
somewhat on topic, the 85/1.8 images do remind a lot of the look of previous zeiss 85/2 sonnars – they've all had cat's eyes and somewhat high contrast bokeh.
p.32 #18 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
I am not big fan of 55FE bokeh at the time I own it but it is still the first lens I buy if I am back to Alpha system. It is very versatile and Bokeh can be beautiful at certain condition. (but not so pleasing with other) Reading briefly online review of Loxia, I actually slightly prefer FE55's rendering to Loxia.
85 looks like as good most of time, just need to be used carefully.(the girl portraits look very good, on the other hand the model on beach not so much) the system become more attractive with this set of f1.8 lens for sure. I agree with Philip that these f1.8 55/85 alone worth to consider enter alpha system.
p.32 #19 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Kalainen wrote:
No problem, I was interested to hear how you feel about them.. :-)
-Toni
Briefly - I think they're more reminiscent of the 35/2 50/2 ZM lenses, but a bit more flat/dull. I feel they do well close up. As you start shooting subjects further away, they tend to flatten out, and seem even more dull. They don't really maintain that pop the more you move away from minimum focus. Also I feel the colors overall aren't fantastic.
To be fair, I had a week with the both of them (not the shortest period of time I've owned a lens though).
I will add props for the fact that they actually have texture to them.. As in, the bokeh isn't a plastic mess. Though reducing the contrast in the bokeh would have made them better. And I suppose less flat at medium to long distances.
p.32 #20 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
sebboh wrote:
argh! i can't even look at pictures from normal distance on a 72 ppi screen. i don't just see the pixels, i see the 3 separate colors of each pixel. it gives me a headache.
i was hoping that's what the loxia line would be (i don't want AF), but i don't really think the zm 35/2 or zm 50/2 as classic zeiss favorites. what other cult classics were you thinking of besides the c/y 35/1.4?
i was hoping for lenses with the looks of the contax g 21/2.8, contax g 28/2.8, c/y 35/1.4, zm 50/1.5 sonnar, and contarex 85/2 with modernized coatings, physical and electronic aperture, and well built compact designs.
somewhat on topic, the 85/1.8 images do remind a lot of the look of previous zeiss 85/2 sonnars – they've all had cat's eyes and somewhat high contrast bokeh.
I don't think we are likely to see redesigns of some of the true classics due to cost (one of the reasons often cited for the demise of the original Sonnars). For instance, look at the older Sonnar designs. The closest we have is the ZM 50/1.5 and it's design does not replicate the original version as it uses only one single triplet group in the rear. There is nothing (current Zeiss) that replicates the design of the original Sonnar 50/1.5 or the Contarex 85/2 Sonnar that I'm aware of, both of which use cemented triplets in the front and rear groups.
