I am looking to add a second medium format film camera to my kit that can be used handheld for natural light portraits and the occasional landscape. Currently shooting canon for digital and Fuji GA645 for medium format. The Fuji is a great camera, but I would like something with longer, faster glass. I have been struggling to decide between the four options below.
I am leaning towards the 645 AFD because it has (sluggish) autofocus and if I ever win the lottery it will accept a digital back. The larger negative and laster lenses are drawing me towards the other systems, but I am concerned with manual focusing and shooting them handheld.
What are your experiences shooting these systems handheld? What systems am I missing?
The Pentax and the RZ 67 are enormous beasts. Nice, but not really good for handheld shots. The Mamiya 6 or 7 is great but hard to find for less than a $1000. The minimal focus distance on the 6 is very long, which hampers the system, esp. for portraits. Don't know about the 7. And don't know the 645AFD.
others that IMO you should consider...
Pentax 645N + 105mm 2.4 or 150mm 2.8 or 75mm 2.8
Hassy 500cm + 80mm 2.8
Rolleiflex w/ 80mm 2.8 (older ones like D, E and maybe F can be found for under $1000, TLR though)
the RZ67 and P67 are huge beasts that I wouldn't enjoy to carry with me all the time
the Mamiya 6/7 is nice, it's a RF camera and can be challenging shooting with longer lens.
Although the Pentax 67 and RZ 67 are similarly sized, ergonomically they're very different: the Pentax was absolutely meant to be shot handheld, and much of its reputation is from handheld fashion photography with its unique addon grip. The mirror slap is something to watch for, but i would absolutely recommend the Pentax for handheld, and the large film size is really something else.
I have two of them (Mamiya 7 and RZ67) and I have used the Pentax a bit while my local rental house carried it. If I were you, I would not bother with another 645 - the difference you get with the largest negative possible is very noticeable.
I would not be concerned with AF if you are going to use this primarily for portraits.
I absolutely love my RZ67 and Mamiya 7ii, but those systems are meant to complement each other. The RZ67 is a portrait machine, but I usually use it on a tripod (or if I handhold it's not for very long). The Mamiya 7 is great for landscapes and carrying it isn't burdensome at all, but it's not as versatile as the RZ is.
Kind of tough without seeing your work, or really knowing what you want to accomplish, but I think taemo is on the right track - maybe an older Hasselblad with the 80mm and 150mm. I have a Rollei I can sell you, but it's one focal length (which for portraits would limit you to environmental or getting in your subject's face).
I can tell you that the Mamiya 645Af is a nice way to go. If you have not used one and experienced the AF speed you're in for a surprise, it's not exactly sluggish. It won't match a Canon or Nikon speed demon but more than fast enough for medium format work and once it locks in it's spot on. Way, way different than using a Hasselblad or any other non AF camera, very usable handheld and much like a DSLR in use due to the grip and eye position. No contest against the others, IMO for ease and speed of use but since you are using it for landscape and portraits, you can go with any of the other systems for that. I did use a digital back on mine and it was also great due to the AF and the auto exposure. Bob.
If you want to shoot handheld forget the 6x7 and larger cameras. Way too big. And I'd never get a medium format rangefinder - if you're planning on wasting the advantage of the larger film area by only sorta vaguely getting your shots in focus, just get yourself a lighter, cheaper 35mm rangefinder.
The Mamiya 645 (or one of the other 645 systems if you decide to go manual focus) are where to look. If you hit the lottery a Rollei 6008AF (or Hy6 if you hit an even bigger lottery) give you 6x6 AF.
Lee Saxon wrote:
If you want to shoot handheld forget the 6x7 and larger cameras. Way too big. And I'd never get a medium format rangefinder - if you're planning on wasting the advantage of the larger film area by only sorta vaguely getting your shots in focus, just get yourself a lighter, cheaper 35mm rangefinder.
What? I don't know what exactly your experience is but shooting a 6 x 7 rangefinder and getting accurate focusing is no problem at all, assuming the equipment is working properly.
I shoot 90% or more 6 x 7 rangefinders and never have issues hitting focus.
I've had the M645 and RZ over the years. The M645 is almost as easy to use hand held as a 35mm camera. The RZ is not, but the image quality is superior to 645.
It isn't hard to find a Hy6 for a bit more than 1000 these days; I just bought one.
Lee Saxon wrote:
If you want to shoot handheld forget the 6x7 and larger cameras. Way too big. And I'd never get a medium format rangefinder - if you're planning on wasting the advantage of the larger film area by only sorta vaguely getting your shots in focus, just get yourself a lighter, cheaper 35mm rangefinder.
The Mamiya 645 (or one of the other 645 systems if you decide to go manual focus) are where to look. If you hit the lottery a Rollei 6008AF (or Hy6 if you hit an even bigger lottery) give you 6x6 AF.
Rz67 and Mamiya 7 are the two best of everything listed so far. The rz is far superior for portraits, but the mamiya 7 lenses are the best, bar none, in the world or medium format.
Rz is not bad to handhold, I do so with mine almost exclusively. And that is with the grip, motor drive, and prism finder. Heavyish, but not that bad, really.
The RZ can take a digital back also, but film is where it shines. It also has probably the most extensive system of lenses and accessories of any medium format system. Everything from fisheye to long apo teles, tilt-shift, dedicated macro lenses, soft focus, multiple types of focus screens and finders, and more. All lenses are leaf-shuttered too (flash sync at any speed).
I like my Mamiya 6. I paid a bit more than $1k, but I'm sure there are deals out there. Also, if GAS hits there's only 3 lenses that I can 'need'....keeps the long term cost down
With used prices what they are, I would go with a Hasselblad 500cm and a 150 or 180mm
lens, or a Bronica Sqai with the same focal lengths. If you want, you can use 645 backs with either systems, but it really isn't necessary as it is very easy to crop the square format.
Thanks for the input everyone. I will add that I have used a Kowa 6 with the 85 f/2.8 and found it difficult to use handheld for what I am trying to do. All handheld photos had shutter speed greater than 1/125 but ended up blurry / unsharp. I am assuming this is the result of shaky hands or poor focus. I found the WLF w/ magnifier difficult to use. This experience with the Kowa is pushing me toward the 645 AFD as well.
I have never been a fan of the 645 format...and today with the quality of DSLR I still see no use for it.
6x6 and 6x7 or bigger really make a impact with the major step up in film size. the 645 is a baby step from 35mm and always has been a compromise.
If you win the lottery why would you keep an old 645 anyway!
Has anyone mentioned Fuji GSW69 ? That's one I wish I still had.
carstenw wrote:
It isn't hard to find a Hy6 for a bit more than 1000 these days; I just bought one.
The prices of used film cameras went downhill but I think you still got lucky, or maybe German market has more supply. I managed to put together 6008 SRC 1000, Zeiss 80 f2.8, S-K 90 f4 Macro and S-K 180 f2.8 for about 2300$ and I was one internet glitch away from adding S-K 50 f2.8 for another 700$ to the kit but it was lucky strike at estate auction. Whenever I look at e-bay or photo forums the prices are usually much higher than that. I am still looking for wide angle lens.
Wow, that is amazing! I wish I could find prices like that. Yes, there is a better supply of the cameras here in Germany, unsurprisingly since they are made here, so this makes it a little easier to find them. I did buy mine from the UK though
What do you think of the 90 and 180 lenses? I am considering both... And the 120.
