p.3 #1 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
rondphoto wrote:
I'll mention it again...just this year alone I had 1 wedding not come to fruition after being called off the day of, and had another one come unravelled the day of.
Good luck collecting that money from a cancelled wedding.
I'd spend the same or more in legal fees to get that money.
I understand it's not the client's fault that this is my chosen profession, but it's a business and I do what is necessary to protect it...including taking payment before the wedding.
Yeah I changed my policies to add another payment along the way because of this happening to me this year. I had a couple call the wedding off less than a month out before final payment was made. I had been paid my retainer of $1000. Shot their engagement session and held the date for over year. That is worth more than $1k to me.
I am a small business owner. I just don't have the time to chase clients down for payments. I pretty much believe in all of the reasons listed as to why I collect 30 days upfront. My initial responses always starts out like this. I start with it is my policy and I am not willing to alter or change that one. If that gets questioned. I explain to them that I don't want to collect money from them on their wedding day that I feel like that is tacky and something we won't have time for. And if that gets pushed or why can't they pay after, I will actually tell clients straight up the realities of why I do it, including couples split up, and how do I get guaranteed that I will get final payment after the wedding?
They know they are hiring a small vendor. Not some big service organization with a billing department. My clients understand this, and they tend to thank me for being so honest about things.
p.3 #2 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
One of the ONLY times I ever allowed payment "later" (on/after), it took me forever to get it. Never again. I shouldn't have to work as a collector as well. It adds to my cost - uncontrollably. Quite frankly, I only want clients that view the value of my product as enough to pay me up front. If they want to argue the point, they're not the client for me. There's a reason this industry swapped to this model many years ago.
p.3 #4 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
rondphoto wrote:
My contract states all payment are non-refundable.
However, it's all case-by-case.
If someone died, I'd issue a refund. However, the only cancellations I've ever had were day-of. In those cases, no refunds.
Yeah, I wonder how well it would actually stand up in court? I could see you getting to keep the retainer but since no work had been performed I really wonder who the judge would side with? Based on past cases that have read about over the years you would probably be ordered to repay it all or repay less the retainer.
p.3 #5 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
My contract states that I be paid in full before or on the day of the wedding, but in practice I am very flexible.
30% of the time the couple pays it down far in advance, owing nothing come the wedding date. This is my least preferable route, because it makes it more difficult for me to be motivated doing the editing. My mind telling me "I got paid already, forget this"
50% of the time the couple will hand me the check when I'm wrapping up the day of. This is my most preferred..
The remaining 20% or so, the couple says "ok let me go get my checkbook" or "find [whoever] has the payments", and I'll be so tired I just tell them "Don't worry about it, just send me the remainder in the next week or so"
Of the 100ish weddings I have shot, I have not once had difficulty chasing down a payment. I'm either THAT good, or Minnesotan's are just THAT nice
Either way, I am pretty sure my flexibility and easygoing nature goes a long way in securing referrals. If one day I have some problems getting the final payment, so be it.
That aside, theres no way they are seeing the photos until contract is completed.
p.3 #7 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
I am not in the business, but it is different in many other fields, where final payment is never given until final delivery. A simple example is a house addition. The final payment of ~10% is only made after the town issues the occupancy permit. I understand that the financial risks to a photographer are different as mentioned above (loosing the date, etc), but the same principle seems to apply: the customer gets some reassurance and there is minimal risk to the business.
p.3 #8 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
gotta take it back to page 1. As Todd noted it's the industry standard. The other vendors, the venue will be paid in advance. Why does the photographer have to make the exception? Yes I know we have a product. But what's really the difference between paying before the wedding and paying before the product is turned over after the wedding? Either way you will be paid before the product is delivered, right?
Anyhow for me, this is simply one policy I don't budge on. They are welcome to hire a photographer that will. And I have yet to have someone not sign as a result of this policy.
p.3 #10 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
What we call an industry standard was set by who? No one that I know of, if just morphed into what we have today and what photographers whated it to be. This was not set by any kind of governing or legislative body. I totally understand why it bristles some buyers. If I was a buyer of wedding photography today I would maybe only pay full price up front if the person came with a very very good recommendation from trusted personal friends. Otherwise the seller would get great push back.
Keep in mind, after the wedding we have all the leverage, we have what the clients want, their wedding photos.
p.3 #11 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
SGallant wrote:
gotta take it back to page 1. As Todd noted it's the industry standard. The other vendors, the venue will be paid in advance. Why does the photographer have to make the exception? Yes I know we have a product. But what's really the difference between paying before the wedding and paying before the product is turned over after the wedding? Either way you will be paid before the product is delivered, right?
Anyhow for me, this is simply one policy I don't budge on. They are welcome to hire a photographer that will. And I have yet to have someone not sign as a result of this policy....Show more →
What "The Industry Standard" Ok, where is it written? Is it in the licensing exam for photographers? Inscribed on the wall at Headquarters? What are some other standards? Or is it a fancy way to say "that's just how we roll"?
Whenever anyone tells me "it's the industry Standard" especially in an industry with few regulations, rules or even a handbook it tells me that they are not willing or able to articulate their reasoning.
I have been in discussions with clients where we both tried to play the industry standard card, being in different industries we had different standards that were at odds with eachother.
Once you have in your head why and how things are done, explaining it with confidence and without a chip on the shoulder goes a long way.
Photographers need to trust clients will pay and clients need to trust that photographers will show up, create great work, and deliver in a timely manner.
p.3 #12 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
It's the industry standard because it's what other vendors do. Perhaps I should limit my statement to just my area, and that's fine. And I do explain it with confidence and without a chip on my shoulder which is why I started my original statement the way I did in my first response. I have a chip on my shoulder in this thread because there are people coming in here claiming to be "from the other side" which I doubt is true. From the other side would be an actual person in the middle of planning a wedding.
You guys run your payments anyway you see fit. I will do the same.
p.3 #13 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
SGallant wrote:
It's the industry standard because it's what other vendors do. Perhaps I should limit my statement to just my area, and that's fine. And I do explain it with confidence and without a chip on my shoulder which is why I started my original statement the way I did in my first response. I have a chip on my shoulder in this thread because there are people coming in here claiming to be "from the other side" which I doubt is true. From the other side would be an actual person in the middle of planning a wedding.
You guys run your payments anyway you see fit. I will do the same. ...Show more →
But the response is still "that's what everybody else does". In the words of my mom, "If all the other kids jumped off the bridge would you jump too?"
When I get that kind of response from a vendor I hire, I see it as kind of a smokescreen. It's obvious that I won't be getting an explanation. It's not the practice of paying upfront, it is the explanation why, to people who only get married 2 or 3 times in their life, you deal with this every day as your business. They don't.
Oct 02, 2014 at 07:53 PM
glort Offline • • • • [X]
p.3 #14 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
If or when a client asked me why I get full payment up front my answer would be simple:
Because it's the way I operate MY Business.
If a client dosen't like that, then the same as with my work, they are VERY welcome to find somone whos practices are more suited to their own proclivities.
It's not negotiable and the mere fact a client would ask would get the warning bells ringing to me.
The reasons are multiple and are MY reasons. Other peoples may be different based on their expericences, personal outlooks and clients which is fine as well.
When I didn't get payment up front I had a cupboard full of finished albums and a tray full of unpaid bills from my suppliers and no cash in the bank.
Getting payment up front fixed that.
I have had at least half a dozen couples not pick up their FINSHED ( paid for ) albums over the years because the marrige didn't last the time it took me to put the album together, under 3 weeks.
They go away on Honeymoons etc and come back cash strapped with a pile of other bills to boot. Photos are well down the priority list after the event.
I work on backend sales to increase my averages. If they haven't paid for the base coverage they can use that as an excuse not to spend more which did happen before I got upfront total payment. Having paid for the initial coverage up front they can deal with one bill at a time.
Genuine people have no problem paying up front. When I order something, I'm more than happy to pay for it at the time so I can just collect it when I get it and enjoy the thing rather than thinking about the money.
IF they don't trust me with their money, why the hell are they even thinking of trusting me with the most precious memories of their lives??
In my repeated experience, people whom haggle about paying up front are -usually- pains in the arses who complain about nothing and try to get the price discounted etc after the event and are never happy. They take way more time and effort than anyone else, try to make you feel like you have done them wrong and bring you in the lowest returns.
Frankly, I'm not so desperate for work or money to need these clients and if up front payment motivates them to go to my competition, terriffic.
It's common practice for a reason, the reaon many people throughout the wedding industry have been burned too many times and don't wish to take the risk. In my business I try to minimise risk and maximise profit and upfront payment goes a very long way to assisting with those goals.
Businesses are licenced and set up as companies etc which affords the consumers a good level of protection through virtually no cost legal means here.
Businesses are screwed if they have to chase clients for money and the cost of doing so almost always outweighs whatever you are wanting to recover.
I pay all my suppliers upfront and am not a bank so therefore am not in the business of giveing people loans.
My products are customer specific. If one client dosen't pay or pickup what they ordered, I can't keep their work on the shelf and sell it to another customer that comes along.
I can sit on my fat arse in front of the TV all day and make no money. I don't have to go out, work hard, waste a lot of money and time to get the same outcome.
And it all comes down to reason 1.
It's how I run my business and everyone is allowed to run theirs how they see fit as well.
p.3 #16 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
glort wrote:
In my repeated experience, people whom haggle about paying up front are -usually- pains in the arses who complain about nothing and try to get the price discounted etc after the event and are never happy. They take way more time and effort than anyone else, try to make you feel like you have done them wrong and bring you in the lowest returns.
Frankly, I'm not so desperate for work or money to need these clients and if up front payment motivates them to go to my competition, terriffic.
This is reason enough. You are making it financially beneficial for them to be unhappy with the product and ask to pay less if they haven't paid yet. A couple that isn't fully paid can look for anything to complain about, but if they were paid in full they would just love their photos. If someone asks, just say "I'm not a bill collector".
p.3 #17 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
I guess I go against the industry standard...sort of.
I have a $1000 deposit to hold the date. Then whatever package they choose I divide the balance into two payments. The first is due a month before the wedding when we establish the timeline for the day. The second (here is where I'm different I guess) is due after the wedding, after they get back from the honeymoon when I'm ready to post there proof gallery.
Here is the catch, I don't show them the gallery until I'm paid in full. This can sometimes depending on how busy I am be up to 4-5 weeks after the wedding. I'm totally OK with that.
It is a great sales pitch to say that they don't have to the full balance before the wedding as they are paying everyone else. I've only had a few times where the couple said they were strapped for cash, so I just waited to post the gallery. They totally understood and got me the payments as soon as they could. Not a big deal because the total deposits I collected before the wedding were enough for up to that point.
p.3 #18 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
Great points glort!
I ask for 50% as retainer with the balance due 2 weeks prior to the wedding. Chasing a couple down (afterwards) or having to think about collecting $ right before a wedding is no fun & totally unnecessary in my view.
p.3 #19 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
$500 retainer, payment due in full one month before, payment plans are available. But I'm not emailing them a week before their wedding looking for money, that's madness.
No client has ever questioned it. And any client who would are most likely the same ones who have a list of "must get" shots on the wedding day and countless other demands. Nightmare.
p.3 #20 · Why do we collect the full balance before the wedding?
ZachOly wrote:
I'm not emailing them a week before their wedding looking for money
I'll let them pay on the day of the wedding if they feel apprehensive about paying prior. I will say, though, that about 50% of the time when they pay on the day of, there is a problem with collecting payment. "Don't have my checkbook on me, can I mail it to you?" "Talk to my dad later." "Have to swing by my house to pick it up." "I'll get you at the end of the night" - and then you gotta go hunt 'em down. When problems like this arise, I have found it mentally distracting from doing the actual shoot.
