WarrenL wrote:
When you cover youth sports and photograph every competitor, you can easily take 10000 to 20000 images, all high quality and not spray and pray
Not sure if I've ever hit 10K in a day but I've come close in the course of a 6+ hour track meet. I'm usually looking at 200+ athletes to cover at meets and many of them do multiple events. While I don't usually spray and pray sometimes you have to do that if there are 6-8 guys doing a 100m sprint and you need all of them in around 12 seconds.
jamato8 wrote:
Having shot for years, and professionally, how do you edit that many images for one days shooting? I would get a headache after a while.
During long festival days I have covered 3-4000 if the artists are interesting enough. You are forced to cull photos down to a few stand outs and make sure that you have 1-3 per artist/band. After you have done that, you only have a few hundred to edit. I imagine ggreene has a similar workflow.
Despite the overwhelming majority of people here mostly doing landscape photography and portraits, there are other genres of photography . Some of them require a totally different workflow.
molson wrote:
If you have to shoot 10,000 to 12,000 frames a day, maybe it's time you started to work on quality rather than quantity... ?
I do a lot of of high-end catalogs and 10K images a day is actually on the low-side. It is very doable to shoot that kind of volume and maintain very high quality standards when you are working with a large team with lots of experience.
mtbakerskier wrote:
I do a lot of of high-end catalogs and 10K images a day is actually on the low-side. It is very doable to shoot that kind of volume and maintain very high quality standards when you are working with a large team with lots of experience.
Wait.
10,000 images divided by an 8 hour day is 1250 per hour, about 21 per minute, or 1 every 3 seconds. And with "very high quality standards." I'm impressed.
I've stayed out of this 30 odd pages cause what is there to say? On this remark I believe you are underestimating how much data large companies collect from the press and various other sources. They actually are concerned about how they are perceived - though often not in the way that we might think they should.
Pre-Internet there were "clipping services" where for a varying fee, organizations would track a given number of newspapers and "clip" any reference to the company. It was considered a valuable and standard practice.
In the electronic error given the ability to borrow tech from NSA , I strongly suspect that Canon has a fair idea of what at least a good chunk of the reviewers and prominent blogs are saying and no doubt select forums that have enough readership.
So does Canon read this post and pay any attention? No likely, particularly since I don't know if FM is on their list of places to watch. Does Canon collect and analyze information from various electronic sources? Absolutely. The tricky question is what do the read, how do they value it, and most important, is it used simply to reinforce an already held world view or do they actually find value in their user data?
Very hard to say though it does appear that Canon is relatively tone-deaf on a number of subjects.
There are numerous companies that collect brand information from the Internet on behalf of large firms. Some have a war-room like setup to be able to deal with possible threats right away. I'm not sure what Canon does but I wouldn't be surprised if they have some service that digests Canon-related info from thousands of Internet sources.
10,000 images divided by an 8 hour day is 1250 per hour, about 21 minute, or 1 every 3 seconds. And with "very high quality standards."
;-)
A typical catalog shoot day is more like 12~16 hours. With 10~12 different setups per day and multiple variations of each set up. Each variant is only 100 images or so. It is a lot of volume but keeping the quality very high is really easy with the right team of set designers, stylists, make up artists, digital tech, etc, etc. Catalog photograph is a completely different beast than landscape, travel photography etc.
Arun Gupta wrote:
i.e., the last year over year growth in DSLR/ILDC was recorded in 4Q12.
The digital camera business as a whole is certainly rapidly declining.
The DSLR/ILDC business is in slow decline. Can Canon put out new product in DSLR/ILDC to lure new customers and upgrade customers?
Hi Arun Gupta,
Thanks for taking the time putting all that data together. It was both interesting and enlightening. The puzzlement when watching corporate inaction and paralysis is the "why?". Loss of revenue and market share one would think requires direct action and one would hope that any business would then step up to the plate with new and innovative products rather than incremental updates.
A quick google search of the OP's mythical 46MP camera reveals a rumor history not just back to 2013, but to 2012 for this beast. A symptom of a population of current users who are dissatisfied with the current product offerings. In the real world of supply and demand that user base will migrate elsewhere to those companies supplying those demands.
It is my opinion that part of the reason for inaction on Canon's part on issues like wide-DR, High ISO performance, high megapixel sensors, and 4k video, is that they have tied their market-reasoning and investment (product development) strategies with several groups of professional shooters who, quite frankly, either see no need or reason for these functionalities or, even, outright poo-poo them on forums like this. Studio togs shooting for print with an idealized 5-stop image target, and sports shooters looking for machine gun shutter and AF response get more ear-time, it seems, with Canon than the wildlife, nature and landscape artists and indie shooters clamoring for megapixels, ISO and DR and 4K.
The point is, all of the above shooters, myself included, invested heavily in Canon's system. Those who won that lottery have great cameras that suit their needs. Those of us who lost that lottery now have to either make-do with what we've got or go shop elsewhere for our creative tools. 2015 will be an interesting camera-head shopping year for me, we'll see who's selling what I need come springtime. One can't purchase a rumored camera.
Thanks for taking the time putting all that data together. It was both interesting and enlightening. The puzzlement when watching corporate inaction and paralysis is the "why?". Loss of revenue and market share one would think requires direct action and one would hope that any business would then step up to the plate with new and innovative products rather than incremental updates.
A quick google search of the OP's mythical 46MP camera reveals a rumor history not just back to 2013, but to 2012 for this beast. A symptom of a population of current users who are dissatisfied with the current product offerings. In the real world of supply and demand that user base will migrate elsewhere to those companies supplying those demands.
It is my opinion that part of the reason for inaction on Canon's part on issues like wide-DR, High ISO performance, high megapixel sensors, and 4k video, is that they have tied their market-reasoning and investment (product development) strategies with several groups of professional shooters who, quite frankly, either see no need or reason for these functionalities or, even, outright poo-poo them on forums like this. Studio togs shooting for print with an idealized 5-stop image target, and sports shooters looking for machine gun shutter and AF response get more ear-time, it seems, with Canon than the wildlife, nature and landscape artists and indie shooters clamoring for megapixels, ISO and DR and 4K.
The point is, all of the above shooters, myself included, invested heavily in Canon's system. Those who won that lottery have great cameras that suit their needs. Those of us who lost that lottery now have to either make-do with what we've got or go shop elsewhere for our creative tools. 2015 will be an interesting camera-head shopping year for me, we'll see who's selling what I need come springtime. One can't purchase a rumored camera.
The wildlife guys got exactly what they wanted in 7D2 - more megapixels, better sensor for high ISO, more fps, and a top of the line AF unit - who else is selling all of these things?
Once again, keep in mind that canon is selling more of these "bum" cameras than Nikon or sony combined.
kezeka wrote:
The wildlife guys got exactly what they wanted in 7D2 - more megapixels, better sensor for high ISO, more fps, and a top of the line AF unit - who else is selling all of these things?
Once again, keep in mind that canon is selling more of these "bum" cameras than Nikon or sony combined.
McDonalds sells more hamburgers than all the pubs combined...so what? I know what burger I would purchase...and it's not necessarily the most popular.
chez wrote:
McDonalds sells more hamburgers than all the pubs combined...so what? I know what burger I would purchase...and it's not necessarily the most popular.
True, but in a few years time, it's likely that the neighborhood burger store is no longer around while McDonalds continues to thrive (especially in Asian countries).
mtbakerskier wrote:
A typical catalog shoot day is more like 12~16 hours. With 10~12 different setups per day and multiple variations of each set up. Each variant is only 100 images or so. It is a lot of volume but keeping the quality very high is really easy with the right team of set designers, stylists, make up artists, digital tech, etc, etc. Catalog photograph is a completely different beast than landscape, travel photography etc.
so only one high quality shot every 6 seconds then... ;-)
molson wrote:
If you have to shoot 10,000 to 12,000 frames a day, maybe it's time you started to work on quality rather than quantity... ?
This slam is unkind and unnecessary. But it serves as a reminder to us all that there are vastly different uses for the photographic equipment that Canon manufacturers. Digital, and the incremental upgrades Canon (and Nikon) have made since digital, have expanded the various uses for cameras exponentially.
Just because someone doesn't shoot the way I shoot... doesn't mean they should. They may not be shooting what I shoot. I may not have any idea of what they shoot. And that may very well be the crux of why some folks can't understand Canon's product/feature implementation cadence... because they can't imagine the uses that other Canon customers have for the product.
gdanmitchell wrote:
"Wait. 10,000 images divided by an 8 hour day is 1250 per hour, about 21 per minute, or 1 every 3 seconds. And with "very high quality standards." ;-)"
There are several event photographers who have posted on this forum over the years, and they have reported that their jobs require them to shoot between 80 to 120 pictures every 2 1/2 minutes, on single shot drive (motordrive forbidden), with a 30 seconds "rest" in between, which is all the time they have to edit before shooting again. For 12 hours straight. Do the math on that.
And as for "quality standards", those shots have to meet several quality standards (exposure, focus, subject isolation, situational decorum, peak action, eyes visible, non embarrassing facial expression, etc), because they are sold straight out of camera, within minutes of having been shot. No post adjustments whatsoever.
It might not be a job that every photographer can relate to, and the job didn't exist before digital, but Canon sells a lot of high end professional cameras to high volume event photographers who can log up to a half million clicks (not an exaggeration) before sending them in for a replacement shutter and mirror box.
Arun Gupta wrote:
The format of each line is year over year growth in digital camera units, year over year growth in DSLR/ILDC). Percentage of digital camera units sold and value of DSLR/ILDC.
Year over year compares the same period the previous year with the current year.
The 2011 annual report records a -4% growth year over year in digital camera units sold. DSLRs were 28% of the units sold and 71% of the value.
1Q12 saw a +4% growth y/y in digital camera units sold. DSLRs were 28% of the units and 73% of the value.
2Q12 showed a +35% growth y/y in digital camera units sold. ILDC had a +47% y/y growth in units sold. ILDC were 31% of the units and 75% of the value.
3Q12 showed a -17% growth y/y in digital camera units sold. ILDC were -7% y/y in units sold. ILDC were 33% of units and 79% of the value.
4Q12 showed a -3% growth y/y in digital camera units sold. ILDC were +14% y/y in units sold. ILDC were 32% of units and 77% of value.
1Q13 had a -31% growth y/y in digital camera units sold. ILDC were -15% y/y in units sold. ILDC were 35% of units and 81% of value.
2Q13 had a -19% growth y/y in digital camera units sold. ILDC were -4% y/y in units sold. ILDC were 36% of the units and 80% of value.
3Q13 had a -22% growth y/y in digital camera units sold. ILDC were -3% y/y in units sold. ILDC were 41% of the units and 83% of value.
4Q13 had a -16% growth y/y in digital camera units sold. ILDC were -6% y/y in units sold. ILDC were 35% of the units and 81% of the value.
1Q14 had a -22% growth y/y in digital camera units sold. ILDC were -7% y/y in units sold. ILDC were 41% of the units and 83% of the value.
2Q14 had a -31% growth y/y in digital camera units sold. ILDC were -19% y/y in units sold. ILDC were 42% of the units and 82% of the value.
i.e., the last year over year growth in DSLR/ILDC was recorded in 4Q12.
The digital camera business as a whole is certainly rapidly declining.
The DSLR/ILDC business is in slow decline. Can Canon put out new product in DSLR/ILDC to lure new customers and upgrade customers?
To put the numbers in perspective, for each 100 DSLRs Canon sold in 2Q11, Canon sold 147 in 2Q12, 141 in 2Q13 and 114 in 2Q14.
If we do the same exercise for the first quarter of the year, for each 100 DSLRs Canon sold in 1Q11, it sold 104 in 1Q12, 88 in 1Q13 and 82 in 1Q14.
To REALLY put these numbers in perspective, remember that 1Q12 and 2Q12 saw the first shipments to satisfy the highly pent up demand for the newly released 1DX, 1DC, and 5D3 in the professional line of DSLRS. The same two periods a year earlier, and a year since, saw no such blockbuster product releases.
Further aiding in 1Q12's and 2Q12's standout growth performance was the simultaneous new release of the 650D, the Rebel T4i, the Kiss X6i, and the 60Ds. That's a total of seven new interchangeable lens camera bodies made available for sale in 1Q12 and 2Q12. Some of those DSLRs, like the 1DX, were announced earlier in 2011, but did not ship in revenue creating quantities until the first and second quarters of 12. And because they were announced some months prior to actual availability, there was some built up demand that wasn't satisfied until the end of 2Q12.
If Psychic1's fanciful notion of 46mp camera being announced this weekend were actually anything close to accurate, and the unit began shipping 1Q15 or 2Q15, it is a highly probable "prediction" that the investors will be pleased with the y/y comparison of DSLR sales compared to 1Q14... especially when combined with the 7D2 shipments. No psychic powers needed.
So, all this is to say that the availability of new and vastly improved product in the segment could very well reverse the downward trending of the percentages since the last major introduction of new product. Product is king. If you build it, and build it right, they will come.
gdanmitchell wrote:
so only one high quality shot every 6 seconds then... ;-)
Yep. When you have your light 100% dialed, the athlete or model is 100% and your set designer has everything peeped 100%, all you have to do is check focus / composure and shoot. Doesn't even take 6 seconds then. Especially when you have an amazing Art Director that knows exactly what they want.
Now on the other hand, when I am dragging 2+ studio packs into the backcountry to shoot skiing, I am perfectly content with just 1 quality shot a day. Once again, a different beast. The point is its not that difficult to do a lot of high-quality volume in certain disciplines.
To add to the dismal numbers, Canon's 3rd quarter 2014 financials are out. Interchangeable Lens Digital Cameras registered a drop of 20% in units sold compared to 3rd quarter 2013. Probably most important for those looking for new product, Canon projects a 15% drop in Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera units sold in financial year 2014 relative to financial year 2013 (i.e., the last quarter of 2014 is not going to be great either).
Also
Within the Imaging System Business Unit, although sales volume of interchangeable-lens digital cameras
declined owing to the shrinking market in Japan and other regional markets due to the delayed economic
recovery, the advanced-amateur-model EOS 70D realized healthy growth, enabling Canon to maintain the top share in such major markets as Europe, the U.S. and Japan. As for digital compact cameras, despite a decline in total sales volume, sales of high-added-value models featuring high image quality and high-magnification zoom capabilities recorded solid growth, enabling the maintaining of a high market share. Looking at inkjet printers, amid the market contraction due to the delay in economic recovery, especially in Europe and Asia, sales volume for the quarter remained at the same level as the previous year while sales of consumable supplies increased from the year-ago period. As a result, third-quarter sales for the business unit decreased by 9.4% to ¥315.8 billion (U.S.$2,898 million) year on year, while operating profit declined 23.9% to ¥43.3 billion (U.S.$398 million). Sales for the first nine months totaled ¥941.0 billion (U.S.$8,633 million), decreasing 8.9% year on year, while operating profit totaled ¥136.3 billion (U.S.$1,251 million), a decrease of 3.8% year on year. ...Show more →
Arun Gupta wrote:
To add to the dismal numbers, Canon's 3rd quarter 2014 financials are out. Interchangeable Lens Digital Cameras registered a drop of 20% in units sold compared to 3rd quarter 2013. Probably most important for those looking for new product, Canon projects a 15% drop in Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera units sold in financial year 2014 relative to financial year 2013 (i.e., the last quarter of 2014 is not going to be great either).
Also
Fiscal Q4 2014 just ended, and canon released the 7D2 but it hasn't shipped yet. Tough to grab sales increases without new products.
Does anyone have statistics on canon's lens revenue year over year?
Archive 2014 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...
. Some of them require a totally different workflow.
, I strongly suspect that Canon has a fair idea of what at least a good chunk of the reviewers and prominent blogs are saying and no doubt select forums that have enough readership.