Steve Spencer
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Upload & Sell: On
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ecarlino wrote:
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this point, but clearly this has been the worst 'coming out' party ever (probably my own fault). I've always respected FM and those that post here because the conversation was always a bit more elevated.
Literally my first 2 posts made the point "I hope our favorite mfgs thrive" and I consider myself a "stakeholder in them". Probably very positive themes.
Unfortunately, that's gotten lost in an odd conversation that resembles a presidential debate and whether profits are moral or something (I don't even know anymore).
My only point in coming back today was to attempt to clarify the manner in which carsten characterized me, but that's probably only back-fired as well.
Oh well, back to my hole........Show more →
There really is no reason to go back to any hole. I can see how you think this is the worst 'coming out' party ever and why you wanted to walk away, but if you learn from this experience I think you can enjoy participating. Here's how I see. You made a couple of posts that you meant to be and actually were positive, but you didn't realize they were on a somewhat controversial topic. People around here have ideas all over the map about our relation to manufacturers. Carsten responded in his typical straightforward/blunt slightly challenging way with a different view than you might have expected about this relation. You responded with an at least slightly condescending post about the nature of economics without realizing that some might take a different view on things. Carsten again responded in his typical way dismissing your condescending post. You then go off on Carsten with an ad hominem attack. You come back today and take a much more conciliatory tone, but, IMO, unfortunately make another gratuitous attack with the bit about everyone who uses non-trivial is a jerk. Jon tries to be helpful by reminding you this is like any other social situation when you step into a group that has known each other for quite awhile even if you have watched and listened to them you should pick your spot to step in.
To try to be helpful let me try to suggest where this went off the rails. Mistake #1 was the at least slightly condescending post about economics. I think this post was well intentioned, but you didn't realize that it might be controversial. Mistake #2 you attack Carsten for the number of posts he makes, the ADD references, and his use of language particularly non-trivial. This was the place where you alienated everyone and went completely off the rails. Like Jon said this is a social situation. Carsten has been coming to the same pub, if you like, for ten years. He knows a lot of people. Even more have had a beer with him once or twice. He's a regular, a fixture. People have put up with his quirks for a long time. Personally, I have disagreed with him as much as agreed but I think he is a great photographer and I respect him, but in this analogy I have had no more than had a beer with him.
You come into the pub for the first time and start a conversation with Carsten. You disagree. He razzes you. Then you call him names and say in analogy that he is drunk because he comes there so often, and then you wonder why people aren't welcoming you with open arms. You come back the next days and say sorry I got off on the wrong foot, but isn't that Carsten an ass. He says non-trivial after all. Not surprisingly to every one, but you perhaps, the reception is still chilly.
You can start again, however. I don't think we are a bunch that won't forgive a bad start. Maybe make an apology here without saying anything negative about anyone, but more importantly go to one of the threads and post a photo or two, talk about your favourite gear, and have some nice interactions with folks. Then down the road after you have "had a few beers" with people then jump into the more non-photo stuff including the market forces around the industry and realize these are controversial and try to be extra respectful. Things will go fine and it would be great to have you around. I don't mean this to be condemning or condescending, but maybe it will be seen that way. To me, however, you seem lost for why it went so badly and this is both my account of how that happened and how it can go much better in the future.
Edited on Aug 27, 2014 at 12:51 PM · View previous versions
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All these nice Zeiss lenses with the A7 sensor are pointless. Let's see if Sony learned their lesson