Access wrote:
I said think. Honestly I don't see that one in the wild too often.
Have you actually been to a kids soccer or baseball game lately?
Soccer mom's use T4i's with a 55-250, baseball dads use a 60D (at best) with the same 55-250 lens. But 90% use their phones.
The really fancy dads will have a 70-200 f/4 or 100-400L, on their 50D-70D's, but that's it.
I see a ton of 7D's at road course races, usually with 70-300L or 100-400L's hanging off of them. Amateur shooters mostly, but some of the lower-level credential shooters too.
aladyforty wrote:
[what a crock of $#@, most so called soccer mums I know are using 60D or smaller, most birders I know are using 7Ds nikons equivalent etc. Not everyone wants to carry a huge lens for focal length, I could probably scratch the money together and buy a big canon, but could I be bothered carting one around....no, like most of those who hike around the birding areas where I live, I prefer a 400mm lens with a crop camera, we don't all sit around in bird hides waiting with a full frame and big lens for that illusive bird shot. I will be prepared to pay up to $2600 for a good cropper if canon can manage to get it right ...Show more →
You are neglecting the big picture. BIF shooters are a rare breed, a subset of a subset, an asterisk in the scheme of things. Compared to a major segment, even if half of them were to use one specific camera or another, it's dwarfed by the more common segments out there.
While BIF shooters do desire a specific and somewhat unique set of camera capabilities, no company can be expected to define a product line around just that.
For daytime sports in general the 7D is/might be the 'only' non-1D 8fps body that many can afford. After using a 40D with its 6.5fps the 7D is just killer for BIF, motocross, car/drag racing, surfing, kids sports of every variety.
It's not just a BIF body, there is a much bigger audience out there and like myself look forward to Canon's update...whatever its called or when it arrives.
StillFingerz wrote:
For daytime sports in general the 7D is/might be the 'only' non-1D 8fps body that many can afford. After using a 40D with its 6.5fps the 7D is just killer for BIF, motocross, car/drag racing, surfing, kids sports of every variety.
It's not just a BIF body, there is a much bigger audience out there and like myself look forward to Canon's update...whatever its called or when it arrives.
Yes, agreed.
And probably on the dream list for these guys is something like a "digital shutter" or "global shutter" that would allow previously unheard of fps. Or even just a 4K video mode that one could grab frames from.
Access wrote:
You are neglecting the big picture. BIF shooters are a rare breed, a subset of a subset, an asterisk in the scheme of things. Compared to a major segment, even if half of them were to use one specific camera or another, it's dwarfed by the more common segments out there.
While BIF shooters do desire a specific and somewhat unique set of camera capabilities, no company can be expected to define a product line around just that.
Seems to me you are the one that can't see the big picture. BIF photography happens to be the same as action photography. Not a very major segment, eh?
The 7D just happens to be one of the most popular DSLR's in this price range. Guess Canon had no idea when they defined a product with 7D specs that happened to be so popular for action photography, eh?
Imagemaster to me BIF falls under "nature" photography, and then a very specific type of nature photography.
You can put it under action but no matter how you look at it, it doesn't change that there aren't a lot of BIF shooters out there.
If you look at what the the amateur sports shooter wants and what the BIF shooter wants -- camera, capabilities, price point -- sure there are some commonalities. But there are also some notable differences. If the 7D2 is for real, it's most likely going to cater to the former.
BIF photographers and action photographers have more similarities than dissimilarities. Lets's look:
Both want high FPS
Both want multi-point AF
Both want rugged build, weather resistance
Both want fast AF
Both want good high ISO capability
Both want good low light AF capability
Both want brighter, larger viewfinders
Both want high IQ
Both want high MP
etc., etc.,
So, what is it that a BIF photographer and action photographer don't have in common?
1) A high-end camera and price point (ie. $3000.) versus a mid-end camera and price point (ie. $1800.)
2) Ultimate or maximum magnification and "pixel density" versus a range of focal lengths (though generally still telephoto), less emphasis on megapixels and "pixel density".
3) You give the example of rugged build, weather resistance, etc. But I think this is one area where a setup aimed at amateur sports shooters could skimp on to cut costs.
Jeff Donald wrote:
BIF photographers and action photographers have more similarities than dissimilarities. Lets's look:
Both want high FPS
Both want multi-point AF
Both want rugged build, weather resistance
Both want fast AF
Both want good high ISO capability
Both want good low light AF capability
Both want brighter, larger viewfinders
Both want high IQ
Both want high MP
etc., etc.,
So, what is it that a BIF photographer and action photographer don't have in common?
How many bif shooters are purely bif shooters. I shoot a lot of bifs, but also shoot a lot of non bif stuff, including nature, surfing, landscape, macro. I don't think most of us can be pigeon holed. A good camera benefits everyone no just bif and action photographers.
Access wrote:
3) You give the example of rugged build, weather resistance, etc. But I think this is one area where a setup aimed at amateur sports shooters could skimp on to cut costs.
I'd expect any 'action' camera (and lens!) to be more rugged than the standard fare, i.e. Rebels or the D3x00/D5x00. Doesn't have to be 5D-level like the 7D, my 60D (and presumably the D7x00-series) was fine for bumps and light rain, but from my perspective the closer they can get to a Pentax DSLR, the better.
Ok I have stayed out of this, I am the amateur exports shooter (currently shoot 7D). I had a T2i and switched to the 7D. I currently shoot U12 and U9 soccer and little league with a little kids football thrown in. Don't make a cent but check my profile. Guess what, two other parents on our team shoot a lot of the soccer as well with guess what, 7ds. Most games have at least one other 7d on the other team and all lot of the time a 1d or two. I am one of those planning to get the Mark II as are 3 others I know. Sure there are lots of cell cameras used, but we get current DSLRs as well. The market is not that small.
Jeff Donald wrote:
BIF photographers and action photographers have more similarities than dissimilarities. Lets's look:
Both want high FPS
Both want multi-point AF
Both want rugged build, weather resistance
Both want fast AF
Both want good high ISO capability
Both want good low light AF capability
Both want brighter, larger viewfinders
Both want high IQ
Both want high MP
etc., etc.,
So, what is it that a BIF photographer and action photographer don't have in common?
jjoejr wrote:
"Because those poor ickle ladies can't use big boys cameras? Seriously dude"
Yea dude, seriously I'll repeat it again if necessary. I've met a lot of ladies through the last 10 years, and the main complaint was the size and weight of the lens and equipment. Most if not all do not want to transport a gimbal, tripod, and large lens. They want the freedom of reach, and weight especially for BIF. Perhaps the ladies you hang with are more manly than the southern belles I meet?......Ha!
John
I know more women that have a 500/4 and 1D series than a 7D and some shorter lens. You know, it does not take great strength to handle such equipment.
johnctharp wrote:
I'd expect any 'action' camera (and lens!) to be more rugged than the standard fare, i.e. Rebels or the D3x00/D5x00. Doesn't have to be 5D-level like the 7D, my 60D (and presumably the D7x00-series) was fine for bumps and light rain, but from my perspective the closer they can get to a Pentax DSLR, the better.
I believe a nature shooter (of just about any type) would desire ruggedness, weather-sealing, water resistance, dirt/dust/other elements more than, say, a sports shooter or a general action shooter.
Rusty1 wrote:
Got to see a noticeably improved sensor before I'm excited. Then I'd be all in.
That's the thing. I hate the 7D for its gain. And while it wouldn't take much to improve upon it, I bet Canon will let us down again. I say this rather cynically because I am currently gun shy about Canon's claims.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
How many bif shooters are purely bif shooters. I shoot a lot of bifs, but also shoot a lot of non bif stuff, including nature, surfing, landscape, macro. I don't think most of us can be pigeon holed. A good camera benefits everyone no just bif and action photographers.
Absolutely true. I think most BIF shooters are also involved in wildlife and perhaps landscapes, scenics etc. However, BIF and sports/action shooters stress their equipment more in my experience. I generally don't shoot sunrises, sunsets etc. at 8 FPS. When it's raining or snowing I'm still on the sideline, but not watching the sunset.
I have two 7D's and the one I bought in 2009 (first body in Tampa) has almost 300,000 exposures on it. The metal body is cracked in two places from being dropped 3 or 4 times, but it still works flawlessly. The second body looks almost like new and has just over 100,000 exposures on it. This is not the kind of abuse/use that an xxD or Rebel/Kiss body will withstand.
Sure, but I don't usually shoot Elk, Bison, Moose, Bear at 8 FPS. Eagles, owls and falcons in flight, I do shoot at 8 FPS. I also don't need multi AF points to shoot a bear or a moose, but BIF I generally will take all the help I can get from multi AF patterns etc.
thank you
