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Archive 2004 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question

  
 
taob
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p.1 #1 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


(I've posted this in another forum to positive feedback, so here it is for FM members)

(edit: yeah, it still is kind of long... I've added section headers to break things up a bit...)

http://www.risc.org/Images/LJ/lj-canon_1dmk2.jpg


As many of you know, I've been shooting with a Canon EOS-10D for about 18 months now, and with a D60 before that. In late July, I jumped on a chance to buy a 1D Mk2. I had a rental 1D Mk2 reserved at Vistek (Toronto) for a few weddings anyway, and I was about to leave on a three-week vacation in Europe, which was the perfect opportunity to break in a new camera.

In a word: WOW. It is true what other people say... you won't want to go back to anything else once you've handled a 1-series body. Everything about the 1D Mk2 is about speed and performance: near-instant startup, hair trigger shutter release, mirror blackout faster than the blink of an eye, 8 fps with a huge buffer (18 in raw, as much as 70 in small JPEG), zippy AF, fast image review, etc., etc. The 10D now feels sluggish and inadequate by comparison. For any 10D/300D owners out there... do yourself a favour and steer clear of any 1-series bodies, lest your mind be tortured by the temptation, or your wallet emptied if you give in.


Ergonomics and controls

The ergonomics are fantastic with the 1D Mk2. The body is slightly wider and slightly taller than a 10D with the BG-ED3 grip. They both weigh about the same, so if you're used to carrying the 10D + BG-ED3 + 70-200/2.8 IS around, switching to a 1D Mk2 body won't add much more weight to your bag. Since it is about 1 cm taller than the 10D, the 1D Mk2 is a bit more snug in my LowePro Toploader 75 AW and CompuTrekker AW bags. The same Canon E1 hand strap for my 10D works just fine with the 1D Mk2 and its integrated portrait grip. The rubber grommets and weather seals are apparent everywhere on the body, including on the lens mount and the battery compartment. When you mount a lens like the Canon 17-40 f/4L or the 70-200 f/2.8L IS, you feel the "squish" as the rubber O-ring on the lens meets the one on the mount. Unfortunately, not all "L" lenses have this feature (e.g., the 135mm f/2L and the 28-70mm f/2.8L do not). The viewfinder eyecup provides a huge amount of eye relief, to the point where my nose barely touches the LCD. On the 10D, it was always squashed up against the back of the camera.

The first thing I had to get used to was the control layout and the press-n-turn way of changing settings. The 1D Mk2 does not have a mode dial (P, Av, Tv, M, etc.). Instead you press and hold the "MODE" button, then turn the main dial. This is how you change settings (besides Av and Tv) and select menu items. For instance, I hold down MENU and turn the rear dial to select one of the submenus, then I hold down the SELECT button and turn the dial to choose a command or a setting. Similarly, when I'm reviewing images, I hold down SELECT and turn the dial to move between images. I got used to this very quickly, and now find it difficult to switch back to the 10D's interface.


Viewfinder and display screens

The viewfinder is fantastic. Not as big as the 1Ds, but noticeably roomier than the 10D. The digital display along the bottom now includes the ISO setting (yay!). Along the right side is a vertical exposure meter (+/- 3 stops instead of +/- 2 stops on 10D). There are actually two exposure scales visible. In the non-M modes, one scale shows you the current exposure compensation. When you half-press the shutter to lock the metering, a second box shows up beside the first one, showing you how the exposure changes if you recompose. So if I point up at the sky, half-press, then point down to the ground, the first box will still show, say, a +1 EC, but the second box will now be down around the -2 mark, telling me that the metering says the scene is now 3 stops darker than before.

The rear LCD display is crisp and bright, although I find it less useful than the 10D's for doing quick assessments of exposure and sharpness. It has the different zoom steps like the 10D, but at no point does a well-focused image appear to "snap". With the 10D, I find that if I zoom in about 10 steps and the image looks sharp in the LCD, it will be sharp on my computer monitor at home. It isn't as obvious on the 1D Mk2 for some reason... some shots that don't look super sharp on the LCD turn out to have exact focus. I guess I'll have to blindly trust the AF system. Also, the LCD tends to "overexpose" images, but they look fine once you're back at your computer. Last weekend, I had some shots of a bride walking down the aisle, and the shots looked a wee bit dark on the LCD, but they actually needed a +2 push afterwards. Trust the histogram and the blinking highlight indicator, not how the image looks.


Dynamic range and noise

Although I haven't done any tests, the 1D Mk2 seems to have more dynamic range than the 10D, and is thus more forgiving of exposure mistakes (like with the shots of the bride). In an extreme case, one of my vacation photos ended up being 4 stops underexposed (I was in manual mode, and turned to grab a different shot, without switching back to Av). Even so, the resulting JPEG was pretty darn good, and the colours were still accurate. I'd say that for important work, I would be comfortable knowing I can push by 2 to 2.5 stops, and pull maybe 1 to 1.5 stops (e.g., for an overexposed image).

ISO noise is an improvement over the 10D. Not only is the amount of visible noise reduced, the pattern appears to be much finer, and not as "splotchy". I'm comfortable shooting at ISO 400 on the 10D in raw, and up to ISO 1600 if required (with NeatImage coming to the rescue afterwards). On the 1D Mk2, I'd say that even ISO 800 will produce very useable images that do not need further treatment with NeatImage. This will be a great advantage shooting in ambient light for things like weddings and concerts. This factor also contributes to how forgiving the 1D Mk2 images are of exposure mistakes. If I need to push an ISO 200 image 2 stops (to the equivalent of an ISO 800 one), the results will still be useable. The images are so clean that I typically keep the 1D Mk2 at ISO 200, since others have shown that the colour rendition seems to be best at that setting, and not ISO 100, surprisingly enough. ISO steps are also adjustable in 1/3-stop increments (e.g., 100, 125, 160, 200, 250, etc.) giving you more ability to fine-tune the shot. The expanded ISO range starts at 50 and goes to 3200.


E-TTL2 and flash exposures

For those who have read my posts on other forums, you'll know that I'm a big fan of the Metz 54 MZ-3 hot-shoe flash. I never found E-TTL to be accurate or reliable on the D60 or 10D, and preferred to keep things simple, and used auto-thyristor mode on the Metz. However, with a Canon 550EX flash and the 1D Mk2's distance-linked ETTL-2, I can say that no-brainer flash exposures are finally possible, and Canon has figured out what Nikon has known for years. I used the 550EX + 1D Mk2 combo for two weddings last weekend, and all the flash shots (with the exception of maybe one or two) turned out as I expected them to. And I didn't have to press the FEL button even once!


Complaints?

What about caveats? No camera is perfect, although the 1D Mk2 comes pretty close. I have found some situations where single-shot AF will continuously bounce between two points. This seems to happen if you have two high contrast vertical edges that are very close together in the viewfinder, but at different distances. The camera can't seem to make up its mind about which to focus on. This is using just the central AF point on a fast lens (e.g., f/2.8 or faster). Some people have reported that this may be a serviceable issue. I would also like to see less of the dreaded "Busy" indicator. It is much better than the 10D, but not as good as the 20D is purported to be. I am still locked out of the menus if the camera is busy writing out files,and I can only review images as they are being written out. I cannot scroll to other images, or zoom in. Again, that is fixed on the 20D, so perhaps Canon will release a 1D Mk2 firmware upgrade to address this? Given Canon's weak track record on firmware upgrades though, I'm not holding my breath.


What about the 20D?

So what's the real question I'm asking myself now? When I looked forward to a replacement for my 10D, I wanted something that would address the weaknesses that bothered me the most. I wanted a camera that had faster and more accurate AF, higher/cleaner ISO (since I do a lot of ambient light shooting), a bigger buffer or faster write times (I often bumped up against the 10D's buffer limit), and perhaps a bit more speed on burst mode. The image quality on the 10D is already great, 6 megapixels was quite sufficient, and battery life was never an issue. Back in July, I knew Canon was going to announce the successor to the 10D (which we now know as the 20D). I also knew that it would not be comparable to a 1-series body.

Or would it?

Looking at the 20D's specs (and without having held one in my hands yet), it does seem to address all the issues I had with the 10D. The buffer management and I/O system is even better than the 1D Mk2's. It does occupy a region along the price/performance scale between the 10D and the 1D Mk2. There is no question that the 1D Mk2 is still the superior camera, but I could pick up three 20D bodies for the price of one 1D Mk2. Do I need 8 fps, or will 5 fps do? Will I miss the 45-point AF when I only use the center point 99% of the time? How often will I need to shoot a burst of 18 raw images, or would a small 6-shot buffer be enough? The 20D produces 8-megapixel CR2 files, same as the 1D Mk2, so my workflow would be better streamlined (I have to deal with both CRW and CR2 files now). Both cameras feature E-TTL2, so my flash exposures will be consistently good. The 20D also has the EF-S mount, which opens new possibilities in the future.

I will need a backup body. In the past, I've rented a second 10D from Vistek as needed. I could do the same with the 1D Mk2, at $125/weekend. I cannot justify a second 1D Mk2 body right now, but perhaps a 20D would fit the bill. I would still have to deal with two different control/menu layouts, but I can see the 20D being my "everyday" camera, and the 1D Mk2 as the workhorse camera. It's also possible that the 20D is so good that I can justify selling the 1D Mk2 and picking up two 20D's instead... having two identical bodies is obviously preferable in terms of shooting operation and workflow. But none of that will be known until I've had a 20D in my hands for a few days and several hundred frames.




Regrets? None, now that I've forgotten about the big hole the 1D Mk2 left in my gear budget (i.e., "there's even a budget left?"). This is one heck of a camera, and it is obvious why Canon's 1-series is the top choice for professional photojournalists, sports shooters and wedding photographers around the world. And, yes, you heard it here first... the 1D Mk2 might actually be too much camera for what I need. But I'm sure that feeling will pass.


Edited by taob on Sep 06, 2004 at 09:20 PM GMT (Reason: Added section headers)



Sep 06, 2004 at 09:00 PM
jmreese
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p.1 #2 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


WWWWWWOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW that's the longest entry I've ever seen!!!!!!!! I'm gonna print it out and read it when I have some more time (maybe tomorrow at break )!


Sep 06, 2004 at 09:10 PM
brogala
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p.1 #3 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


Brian,

Very interesting and quite through review. The point which quickly caught my attention was the one about not being able to judge sharpness on the LCD even at 10x. On the 10D it was quite reliable, if it appeared sharp at 10x it was also sharp on the computer screen at 100%. Your review is the first I've seen that mentioned this difference. It will be interesting to see if anyone else has noticed this problem or perhaps we have faulty cameras.

Bill



Sep 06, 2004 at 09:18 PM
taob
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p.1 #4 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


CanonShooter88 wrote:
WWWWWWOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW that's the longest entry I've ever seen!!!!!!!!


You haven't read any of gervaise's "mini" reviews on his Epson 4000 then.



Sep 06, 2004 at 09:39 PM
taob
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p.1 #5 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


brogala wrote:
Very interesting and quite through review. The point which quickly caught my attention was the one about not being able to judge sharpness on the LCD even at 10x. On the 10D it was quite reliable, if it appeared sharp at 10x it was also sharp on the computer screen at 100%.


I do recall reading about that elsewhere as well, not in a review, but just from user comments... can't remember if it was here or on Rob Galbraith's site or what. There doesn't seem to be a "1:1" zoom setting, where one image pixel is displayed by one LCD pixel. Combine that with the bright display gamma and me not caring about WB (since I shoot all raw), and about the only thing I check the rear display for is composition and framing.



Sep 06, 2004 at 09:42 PM
Rod Eddies
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p.1 #6 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


Brian

re: reviewing shots with the rear LCD on the 1D2.

FWIW I have found (after c. 3k shots) that it is simply not possible to determine whether a shot is sharply in focus at x10, but it is possible to tell whether a shot is grossly out of focus.

I don't feel that the 10X LCD magnification is much of an improvement over the 1D if all 1D2's have the same characteristics as my copy, and yet the 10x zoom was a feature heralded by many as being one of the reasons to upgrade from 1D to 1D2.

Regards

Rod



Sep 07, 2004 at 08:33 AM
Kyle Yates
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p.1 #7 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


I must be the only shooter around here who couldn't really care whether or not the LCD enables you to review pics clearly or not.
I only really use it for the Menu and maybe for a quick look at the histogram and to delete obvious "no hopers" -- but with enough CF / SD cards if you bracket you've got exposure adequately covered so you shouldn't nered to review until you can get to a computerl.

In some cases I'd rather have a cheaper cam than bother with the LCD at all.

But I will add the 1D MK II is not only a fabulous camera --but also a real pleasure to shoot with.

I'd change the CF==>SD==>CF card switching mechanism -- that's a real pain to do on the fly -- I cheat by removing the CF card before switching it on so the SD card starts as the primary. I've got a CF==>SD adapter so I' ll be using more and more SD cards now I've sourced a cheap supply.

The other pain is that it's easy to forget to switch the ISO back after you've changed it to say 800 -- but even if you make a mistake and leave it on the camera takes great shots at 800 anyway.

Finally why show the Filename/ number on the back on the little panel -- of all the most useless pieces of information this one tops it. I'll bet you could have locked the designers into a room for an entire week and got them to decide what to display on this panel (as default). -- and I'll bet none of them would have come up with File name / number.

Still a great piece of kit and I'm certainly not swapping mine for a 20D even if a 20D looks attractive as a smaller more unobtrusive camera to use in some situations. I'm tempted to get a 20D as well BTW.




Sep 07, 2004 at 09:17 AM
Gateboy
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p.1 #8 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


Good review I especially like the 10D -> 1Dmk2 Slant of the review. I just bought a mk2 as well, upgrading from my D60 and have to add a few thoughts

- That shutter and frames per second speed is insane! The first time I used the camera, I shot of 4 frames at a static subject, with the intention of just getting 1 shot. I was used to setting my D60 to continious shooting mode and could control how many shots it took, not so with this camera, I am still trying to get used to the hair trigger :P

- Brian I think like you, getting used to different button layout and the lack of a SET button took some getting used to. I am not as thrilled as you are about having to hold down the select button to scroll through the different menus.

- I love having a spot meter

Question, are most of you using the AF point expansion or just the central AF point? I am trying the expanded AF atm.



Sep 07, 2004 at 10:05 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #9 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


Thanks for a nice review Brian. I'm also buing the mkII next month after using the 10D as long as you.

Lars



Sep 07, 2004 at 11:12 AM
stevenD
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p.1 #10 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


Great Review,

I had a D60, now a 10D

I guess it's time to move up to the 1D Mk II

Who has the best prices?
If I could find a new one around $4k, I would do it today...



Sep 07, 2004 at 11:13 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #11 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


kyle wrote:
I must be the only shooter around here who couldn't really care whether or not the LCD enables you to review pics clearly or not.
I only really use it for the Menu and maybe for a quick look at the histogram and to delete obvious "no hopers" -- but with enough CF / SD cards if you bracket you've got exposure adequately covered so you shouldn't nered to review until you can get to a computerl.

In some cases I'd rather have a cheaper cam than bother with the LCD at all.

But I will add the 1D MK II is not
...Show more

To Kyle,
I have never used the camera so I don't know. But why is it easy to forget to switch back the ISO when you have it in the viewfinder in the mkII

Lars



Sep 07, 2004 at 11:14 AM
wfosterphoto
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p.1 #12 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


I too am a recent owner of the Mark II. I can say without hesitation that it is the finest camera I have ever owned. I still have my EOS 3, but recently have been using a D-rebel that belongs to the magazine I shoot for. Having extensive experience with the EOS 3, I easily navigated the controls for the MarkII. I will never go back to the Rebel.

I have only one comment (not a complaint) so far about the MarkII. I love being able to shoot in RAW + jpg. I use this as a way to shoot my photos and send uncorrected proofs to my editor. She decides what she likes and I use the RAW image to give her a color corrected, cropped and sharpened image for print. I only wish the Mark II had an option to have the RAW images saved to SD and the JPGs saved to Compact Flash.

One last note about the sharpness of images. I have heard people talking about the marked softness of images out of the camera. I am no expert on this, but I think this was very smart on Canon's part. They know that as a professional photographer, you don't want any decisions being made for you by the camera; thus allowing total control over the final image.

Since image sharpness is a very subjective matter from photographer to photographer, Canon left it up to the user. A landscape photographer may want more sharpness than a portrait photographer. By building in the customization features of the camera (parameters and color matrix), Canon does let the user determine if they want additional sharpness directly out of the camera, but ultimately, it needs to be addressed at the computer.

For me, I would rather choose in post production exactly how sharp I want an image due to the variety of subjects I am called up on to photograph. Thank you Canon.



Sep 07, 2004 at 11:59 AM
infosecgeek
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p.1 #13 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


I have a 10D but I am saving my funds to upgrade to the 1Ds.... I got a chance to play with the 1D MKII and I loved it absolutely loved it... But I think the 1Ds would be a much better upgrade for me.... assuming it ever drops under 5k


Sep 07, 2004 at 12:22 PM
krames
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p.1 #14 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


Good review brian- makes me want one even more, i want to get one in my hands and test it out first, that way there is no turning back thanks for taking the time to put that together.

Stephen



Sep 07, 2004 at 12:28 PM
James Lyons
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p.1 #15 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


noooooo... just when I've convinced myself that a 20D would suit my needs... this review is posted... Now I have to figure out a way to get another 2K.....



edit:typo

Edited by James Lyons on Sep 07, 2004 at 11:21 AM GMT



Sep 07, 2004 at 01:06 PM
BrianP
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p.1 #16 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


kyle wrote:
The other pain is that it's easy to forget to switch the ISO back after you've changed it to say 800 -- but even if you make a mistake and leave it on the camera takes great shots at 800 anyway.

Finally why show the Filename/ number on the back on the little panel -- of all the most useless pieces of information this one tops it. I'll bet you could have locked the designers into a room for an entire week and got them to decide what to display on this panel (as default). -- and I'll bet none of
...Show more

Hi Kyle:

There is a custom funciton which shows the ISO in the viewfinder, and it also changes the filename/number to the number of shots remaining on the back. I think this will take care of your problem.



Sep 07, 2004 at 01:07 PM
fsyong
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p.1 #17 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


ooohhhhh i really need the mkII, held it last weekend, was a beauty but the vertical shutter was way to sensitive - small matter though Time to cough out the money

regards
shing



Sep 07, 2004 at 01:50 PM
taob
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p.1 #18 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


EarthSolutions wrote:
FWIW I have found (after c. 3k shots) that it is simply not possible to determine whether a shot is sharply in focus at x10, but it is possible to tell whether a shot is grossly out of focus.


I suspect (though I haven't tested this) that at maximum zoom, the 1D Mk2 is showing great than 100% magnification on the rear LCD. And it does not appear to be an integer level of zoom either (it's like 150% or something). You need to back off a bit on the zoom, just like on the 10D. I'm going to load a JPEG with some artificial patterns onto the 1D Mk2 and see what it looks like on the rear LCD.



Sep 07, 2004 at 10:19 PM
gyapp
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p.1 #19 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


Sweet! A great write-up from a fellow forum poster from Canada. Brian, any chance of letting me try out that 1dmk2 anytime soon? I myself am thinking of upgrading to a 20D but am currently short of funds.

I've always thought of upgrading to a 1-series camera but I guess with the specs of the 20D, ETTL 2, 8.2 mp (not that 6mp wasn't enough but I guess 8mp would be better for cropping), a bigger buffer and higher fps than my current 300D, upgrading to the 20D doesn't seem so bad after all and easier on my wallet. Hopefully in 6 months to a year I'll upgrade.



Sep 08, 2004 at 01:56 AM
taob
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p.1 #20 · 10D->1DMk2 mini-review, and 20D question


taob wrote:
I suspect (though I haven't tested this) that at maximum zoom, the 1D Mk2 is showing great than 100% magnification on the rear LCD. And it does not appear to be an integer level of zoom either (it's like 150% or something). You need to back off a bit on the zoom, just like on the 10D. I'm going to load a JPEG with some artificial patterns onto the 1D Mk2 and see what it looks like on the rear LCD.

Hrm, interesting... the 1D Mk2, even a maximum review zoom, only displays every other pixel or every fourth pixel. Probably better to start a different thread about this "problem" though.



Sep 08, 2004 at 02:13 PM
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