Archive 2014 · Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
p.4 #2Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
A7+Canon FD 24/2.8 SSC
http://zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1396203311.SEQ.4.jpg
http://zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1396203311.SEQ.4.jpg
Mar 30, 2014 at 12:06 PM
p.4 #3Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
Based on this thread, I went out and bought an absolutely mint 20mm FDn for my A7R. Using it with a good Novoflex adapter.
I'm on a bit of a wide-angle quest/binge right now, and am comparing this lens to my recently acquired Tokina 17mm f3.5 AT-X Pro, the amazing Zeiss ZE 21mm f2.8, my OM 21 f2 which is out for adjustment, the Nikon 18-35 G zoom, and course a whole bunch of 24mm (Nikon AiS, Canon TS-E, OM, FD, etc.)
It's one of the quirkier lenses I've tried with the following characteristics:
1) Spherical aberration at f2.8, not terrible but very clear if you compare with f4 or f5.6. SA glow pretty much gone by f5.6.
2) A very warm color cast in the AWB chosen by the A7R from f2.8-5.6. Pretty neutral colors by f8. Very pleasing natural colors, perhaps a touch too blue at f11. I don't believe this an optical characteristic of the lens, but some quirk of how it interacts with the WB sensor in the A7R.
3) Busy bokeh at f2.8, better by f4, really good by f5.6. Close focusing and the 36 megapixel sensor mean that even at f5.6 or f8 it's common to have large areas of the image out of focus.
4) Focus shift. Haven't quite figured out how much and at what f stops it occurs, but it's clearly better to stop down first and focus second with this lens.
5) Vignetting very strong at f2.8. Improves a lot by f4. Not an issue for me by 5.6.
At all apertures it has little distortion and little field curvature, except possibly (not sure) in the extreme corners.
Bottom line -- it's mechanically marvelous, small, light, looks great on the A7R. It's usable in a pinch at f2.8-f4, and can give quite good results at f5.6 & 8 except for the distant corners (edges are already very good), truly excellent by all my criteria at f11.
I intend to use it for deliberate artistic/dreamy effects at f2.8 & f4, and to bring it along on sunny days when I'm not sure if I'll be taking ultra wide pictures or not, to use at f8/f11.
Here are some samples of what I'm talking about:
Color shift from f2.8 to f8
http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-PP8LbNr/0/O/FD20mm%20color%20shift-07105%20copy.jpg
http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-8923rVF/0/O/FD20mm%20color%20shift-07108%20copy.jpg
Bokeh ugly at f2.8, good at f8
http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-RS8dvgL/0/O/FD20mm%20bokeh-07188%20copy.jpg
http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-vqGjZQd/0/O/FD20mm%20bokeh-07191%20copy.jpg
Lens at f4 used artistically
http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-pkGBm5H/0/O/FD20mm%20artistic-07136%20copy.jpg
I'm on a bit of a wide-angle quest/binge right now, and am comparing this lens to my recently acquired Tokina 17mm f3.5 AT-X Pro, the amazing Zeiss ZE 21mm f2.8, my OM 21 f2 which is out for adjustment, the Nikon 18-35 G zoom, and course a whole bunch of 24mm (Nikon AiS, Canon TS-E, OM, FD, etc.)
It's one of the quirkier lenses I've tried with the following characteristics:
1) Spherical aberration at f2.8, not terrible but very clear if you compare with f4 or f5.6. SA glow pretty much gone by f5.6.
2) A very warm color cast in the AWB chosen by the A7R from f2.8-5.6. Pretty neutral colors by f8. Very pleasing natural colors, perhaps a touch too blue at f11. I don't believe this an optical characteristic of the lens, but some quirk of how it interacts with the WB sensor in the A7R.
3) Busy bokeh at f2.8, better by f4, really good by f5.6. Close focusing and the 36 megapixel sensor mean that even at f5.6 or f8 it's common to have large areas of the image out of focus.
4) Focus shift. Haven't quite figured out how much and at what f stops it occurs, but it's clearly better to stop down first and focus second with this lens.
5) Vignetting very strong at f2.8. Improves a lot by f4. Not an issue for me by 5.6.
At all apertures it has little distortion and little field curvature, except possibly (not sure) in the extreme corners.
Bottom line -- it's mechanically marvelous, small, light, looks great on the A7R. It's usable in a pinch at f2.8-f4, and can give quite good results at f5.6 & 8 except for the distant corners (edges are already very good), truly excellent by all my criteria at f11.
I intend to use it for deliberate artistic/dreamy effects at f2.8 & f4, and to bring it along on sunny days when I'm not sure if I'll be taking ultra wide pictures or not, to use at f8/f11.
Here are some samples of what I'm talking about:
Color shift from f2.8 to f8
http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-PP8LbNr/0/O/FD20mm%20color%20shift-07105%20copy.jpg
http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-8923rVF/0/O/FD20mm%20color%20shift-07108%20copy.jpg
Bokeh ugly at f2.8, good at f8
http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-RS8dvgL/0/O/FD20mm%20bokeh-07188%20copy.jpg
http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-vqGjZQd/0/O/FD20mm%20bokeh-07191%20copy.jpg
Lens at f4 used artistically
http://thebrandons.smugmug.com/Other/Samples-for-forums/i-pkGBm5H/0/O/FD20mm%20artistic-07136%20copy.jpg
Mar 30, 2014 at 02:01 PM
p.4 #4Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
Does anyone who has the 24mm f2 know what I can expect from the corners? Is the field curvature a problem by f8? Thanks!
Apr 17, 2014 at 12:29 PM
p.4 #5Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
In another thread I sort of promised to do a comparison of my recent purchase of a FDn 20mm f2.8 and the Distagon 2,8/21. All in all the lens performs in line with the findings of others in this thread:
- Wide open the FDn has low contrast/ resolution and SA glow as well as strong coma, this improves at f4 and more so at 5,6. The lens is useable at f4 but should be closed down at least to 5,6 for across the frame sharpness. The center sharpness peaks at f8, corners at f11.
- In comparision the ZE21 is (as expected) excellent from wide open with better sharpness and contrast across the frame. The FDn approaches the sharpness of the ZE21 at f8 in the centre, but is never as good in the edges/corners.
- Vignetting is stronger on the FDn than the ZE21 from wide open and does not improve as fast as the ZE21 when stopping down.
- The 20mm FDn has less distortion than the ZE21. The LR-profile of the ZE21 at 40% corrects most of the distortion of the FDn
- The FDn weighs in at 380g with adapter as compared to the 900g of the ZE21, handles beautifully on the A7r and will be a good alternative for landscapes when weight is a concern, at a fraction of the price.
- The 20mm is as expected a little wider than the 21mm :-)
What I want is probably a Loxia 4/21 with the performance of the ZE21 and the size/ weight of the FD 20. (Or a M9 + SEM 21.)
- Wide open the FDn has low contrast/ resolution and SA glow as well as strong coma, this improves at f4 and more so at 5,6. The lens is useable at f4 but should be closed down at least to 5,6 for across the frame sharpness. The center sharpness peaks at f8, corners at f11.
- In comparision the ZE21 is (as expected) excellent from wide open with better sharpness and contrast across the frame. The FDn approaches the sharpness of the ZE21 at f8 in the centre, but is never as good in the edges/corners.
- Vignetting is stronger on the FDn than the ZE21 from wide open and does not improve as fast as the ZE21 when stopping down.
- The 20mm FDn has less distortion than the ZE21. The LR-profile of the ZE21 at 40% corrects most of the distortion of the FDn
- The FDn weighs in at 380g with adapter as compared to the 900g of the ZE21, handles beautifully on the A7r and will be a good alternative for landscapes when weight is a concern, at a fraction of the price.
- The 20mm is as expected a little wider than the 21mm :-)
What I want is probably a Loxia 4/21 with the performance of the ZE21 and the size/ weight of the FD 20. (Or a M9 + SEM 21.)
Nov 13, 2014 at 06:01 AM
p.4 #6Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
Having shot with the 20mm for a few months, Not bad sharpness stopped down in the corners. Quite a lot of CA. Vignetting also rather noticeable (not that I mind actually). Rather cool rendition. Annoying that the front element rotates, makes using a polariser or even mounting the lens a real pain. I'm growing rather fond of it as a lens. Doesn't look like a modern lens but doesn't quite look classic either.
Nov 13, 2014 at 10:11 AM
p.4 #7Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the 20mm FDn to the great little Olympus 21/3.5?
Nov 14, 2014 at 05:21 PM
p.4 #9Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
uhoh7 wrote:
ZE 21 is 900 g? OMG!
Not quite...
ZE version: 720g
ZF.2 version: 600g
C/Y version: 530g
ZE 21 is 900 g? OMG!
Not quite...
ZE version: 720g
ZF.2 version: 600g
C/Y version: 530g
Nov 15, 2014 at 09:38 AM
p.4 #10Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
BenjaminSmith wrote:
Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the 20mm FDn to the great little Olympus 21/3.5?
I had the Olympus (MC version) before the Canon.
The Oly is much much smaller. Colour rendition is similarly cool. I found the Oly to be slightly harsher in drawing style. I was not at all impressed with the Oly on my A7r, the corners and edges were frankly awful. The canon however is considerably better. I sold the Oly almost immediately, I've had the Canon for a few months already and will be keeping it until I can find something as sharp in the corners but with a more classical rendition suited to B&W.
Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the 20mm FDn to the great little Olympus 21/3.5?
I had the Olympus (MC version) before the Canon.
The Oly is much much smaller. Colour rendition is similarly cool. I found the Oly to be slightly harsher in drawing style. I was not at all impressed with the Oly on my A7r, the corners and edges were frankly awful. The canon however is considerably better. I sold the Oly almost immediately, I've had the Canon for a few months already and will be keeping it until I can find something as sharp in the corners but with a more classical rendition suited to B&W.
Nov 15, 2014 at 09:49 AM
p.4 #11Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
uhoh7 wrote:
ZE 21 is 900 g? OMG!
That is with the Metabones adapter (but without the hood).
On my scale I find it to be a bit more heavy than the manufacturers specs.
ZE 21 is 900 g? OMG!
That is with the Metabones adapter (but without the hood).
On my scale I find it to be a bit more heavy than the manufacturers specs.
Nov 15, 2014 at 10:01 AM
p.4 #12Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
Beni wrote:
I had the Olympus (MC version) before the Canon.
The Oly is much much smaller. Colour rendition is similarly cool. I found the Oly to be slightly harsher in drawing style. I was not at all impressed with the Oly on my A7r, the corners and edges were frankly awful. The canon however is considerably better. I sold the Oly almost immediately, I've had the Canon for a few months already and will be keeping it until I can find something as sharp in the corners but with a more classical rendition suited to B&W.
Thanks Beni! It is a bit surprising to me as the Oly performs pretty well on my 5DmkII. I also like its teeny size. I can only assume if the FDn works better o the Sony it will do so on the Canon body as well. I would like to try the FDn using the EdMika conversion, and the extra millimeter might come in handy. If I may: what do you mean by 'more classical rendition suited to B&W', and what lenses are in the running for audition? The Leica 19mm Elmarit-R vI?
BenjaminSmith wrote
Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the 20mm FDn to the great little Olympus 21/3.5?The Oly is much much smaller. Colour rendition is similarly cool. I found the Oly to be slightly harsher in drawing style. I was not at all impressed with the Oly on my A7r, the corners and edges were frankly awful. The canon however is considerably better. I sold the Oly almost immediately, I've had the Canon for a few months already and will be keeping it until I can find something as sharp in the corners but with a more classical rendition suited to B&W.
Thanks Beni! It is a bit surprising to me as the Oly performs pretty well on my 5DmkII. I also like its teeny size. I can only assume if the FDn works better o the Sony it will do so on the Canon body as well. I would like to try the FDn using the EdMika conversion, and the extra millimeter might come in handy. If I may: what do you mean by 'more classical rendition suited to B&W', and what lenses are in the running for audition? The Leica 19mm Elmarit-R vI?
Nov 15, 2014 at 11:14 AM
p.4 #13Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
Um, nothing I can afford 
Honestly I've yet to find a lens which would give me the right feel at either 24mm or 16-20mm. I love a classic look with a gentle draw but finding that and sharp to the corners in an ultra wide (I do commercial work too where it's needed) seem to be a contradiction. In the era when they were making that kind of rendering they didn't know how to do ultra wides with sharp corners. Luckily the FD 24mm f2 and 20mm f2.8 I have are only appreciating in price while I continue my search.
BTW I wouldn't be so sure about the same effects showing up on your Canon. The A7r is brutal on lenses period and the cover glass on the sensor exaggerates corner issues badly.
Honestly I've yet to find a lens which would give me the right feel at either 24mm or 16-20mm. I love a classic look with a gentle draw but finding that and sharp to the corners in an ultra wide (I do commercial work too where it's needed) seem to be a contradiction. In the era when they were making that kind of rendering they didn't know how to do ultra wides with sharp corners. Luckily the FD 24mm f2 and 20mm f2.8 I have are only appreciating in price while I continue my search.BTW I wouldn't be so sure about the same effects showing up on your Canon. The A7r is brutal on lenses period and the cover glass on the sensor exaggerates corner issues badly.
Nov 16, 2014 at 01:32 AM
p.4 #14Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
Thanks for the photos! I just pulled the trigger on one yesterday. Hope to get it by end of next week.
What adapter are you using?
sculptormic wrote:
Wide angles which I like on the A7r. And yes those FD(n) lenses are just great.
What adapter are you using?
sculptormic wrote:
Wide angles which I like on the A7r. And yes those FD(n) lenses are just great.
Jun 11, 2015 at 09:51 PM
p.4 #15Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
Just a regular cheap adapter. No problem for the FD mount. No inner reflections. chrome parts are outside on top of the adapter.
Jun 12, 2015 at 05:32 AM
p.4 #16Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
Canon FD SSC 20/2.8 +A7
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/med_U951I1427395925.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/med_U951I1427050499.SEQ.1.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1427050500.SEQ.2.jpg
Canon FD SSC 24/2.8+M5 Extension ring+A7
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/med_U951I1415653409.SEQ.4.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/med_U951I1415773232.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/med_U951I1415654207.SEQ.0.jpg
Canon FD SSC 24/2.8
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1401615435.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/med_U951I1427395925.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/med_U951I1427050499.SEQ.1.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1427050500.SEQ.2.jpg
Canon FD SSC 24/2.8+M5 Extension ring+A7
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/med_U951I1415653409.SEQ.4.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/med_U951I1415773232.SEQ.0.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/med_U951I1415654207.SEQ.0.jpg
Canon FD SSC 24/2.8
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1401615435.SEQ.0.jpg
Jun 13, 2015 at 09:00 AM
p.4 #17Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
I have the 24 and 20 FD's. The 24 is slightly better in the corners and edges at infinity. Both suffer from field curvature so if shooting interiors or down a street where the edges are nearer the center it won't matter. On the A7r I set the infinity stop on the 20 to just go over infinity to balance the edges and center and at F11 it's 'acceptable' but not quite as good as the 24.
Jun 15, 2015 at 02:57 AM
p.4 #18Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
Fred Miranda wrote:
So I guess I'll see first hand and access the adapter when I get it, then decide whether to invest in the Novoflex.
I'm very interested in the mythical Novoflex EF / E adapter that you know is in the works.
-Tim
After seeing these samples I just ordered my 20mm FD f/2.8 off eBay! I also splurged on the Novoflex adaptor. Do you think the Novoflex is really worth the extra money? I figured with the money I will save when I return the Zeiss 24-70mm F/4 I still came out ahead. I picked up what looks to be a very clean copy of the lens for <$300. I hope the optics are as good as your copy!
Also, 1 other question. is the lens attached to this post the same Canon "FDn" you are using? I wasn't sure as is just said "FD" in the eBay description. Also I noticed there is an SSC version. I hope I got the right lens
Thanks
Dimitri
I also would expect more CA from the Sony FE lens at 24 mm than what we see here.Yes, CA correction was turned off. I just double checked. Turning it on removes CA completely.
The FDn 20mm f/2.8 is one of the best wide angle values for the A7R. I'm impressed by the extreme corner resolution at small apertures, low distortion and CA.
It's only 300g and has great resolution from center to corners when stopped down to about f/5.6. Peak performance at f/8.
FredThat's the lens. I will post a picture of the FDn 20mm f/2.8 with the adapter on the A7R.
It's hard to justify spending $200 for an adapter but I highly recommend the Novoflex and would not use any other adapter. There is a trick when attaching it for aperture control. Don't throw away the manual.The 35 f/2.8 TS is way better than the TS-E 24 f/3.5L II + 1.4x extender, especially in the corners. However I never pass 5mm shifting in order to maintain great border resolution.
.
My experience is the reverse - the 35PS is easily beaten by the Canon combo at the corners and edges on a flat field at infinity ( even with no shift). The major problem with the 35 PS is it's pronounced field curvature - the edges and corners are very sharp but just not in the same plane as the center. The Canon 24+1.4 is a very flat field performer.
tsdevine wrote
It was sort of a chicken and egg problem for me. I ordered the CIECIO7 adapter a little over a week ago, since I heard it shared some of the desirable qualities of the Novoflex....it should be getting here in the next few days. I didn't want to spend $$$ on the Novoflex until I had some idea how the lenses performed. It's coming from Poland, and I ordered it before I saw all the buzz as to how the FD lenses are performing. The 24mm nFD 2.8 just came today. I also have a 28mm nFD, 50mm FL, and a 70-150 f/4.5 FD (got the last 3 sold together on eBay.) So I have a bunch of lenses and no adapter....brilliant.So I guess I'll see first hand and access the adapter when I get it, then decide whether to invest in the Novoflex.
I'm very interested in the mythical Novoflex EF / E adapter that you know is in the works.
-Tim
Fred Miranda wrote
pixelreaper wrote
Hi Fred!After seeing these samples I just ordered my 20mm FD f/2.8 off eBay! I also splurged on the Novoflex adaptor. Do you think the Novoflex is really worth the extra money? I figured with the money I will save when I return the Zeiss 24-70mm F/4 I still came out ahead.
I picked up what looks to be a very clean copy of the lens for <$300. I hope the optics are as good as your copy! Also, 1 other question. is the lens attached to this post the same Canon "FDn" you are using? I wasn't sure as is just said "FD" in the eBay description. Also I noticed there is an SSC version. I hope I got the right lens
Thanks
Dimitri
Fred Miranda wrote
alundeb wrote
I was about to ask the same question, the FDn 20mm should show more CA than the 24 mm.I also would expect more CA from the Sony FE lens at 24 mm than what we see here.
The FDn 20mm f/2.8 is one of the best wide angle values for the A7R. I'm impressed by the extreme corner resolution at small apertures, low distortion and CA.
It's only 300g and has great resolution from center to corners when stopped down to about f/5.6. Peak performance at f/8.
Fred
It's hard to justify spending $200 for an adapter but I highly recommend the Novoflex and would not use any other adapter. There is a trick when attaching it for aperture control. Don't throw away the manual.
.
My experience is the reverse - the 35PS is easily beaten by the Canon combo at the corners and edges on a flat field at infinity ( even with no shift). The major problem with the 35 PS is it's pronounced field curvature - the edges and corners are very sharp but just not in the same plane as the center. The Canon 24+1.4 is a very flat field performer.
Jun 15, 2015 at 03:03 AM
p.4 #19Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
I just got the nFD 20 in today, and I've had the 24 for a while. Both are quite good. Just took a few test snaps and aside from CA and some mustache distortion (which the LR EF 20/2.8 profile mostly corrects for shots that its noticeable), I'm very pleased. Only very extreme corners are soft, with the rest of the frame showing really good resolution and excellent color and contrast. The 20 is smaller than I expected, which is a nice treat.
Jun 18, 2015 at 11:08 AM
p.4 #20Canon FDn 20mm f/2.8 and 24mm f/2.8 on A7R
I bought the lens after Fred's recommendation, used it a lot and I can only second twoeye's analysis
I would add that the flare resistance can be a problem and that for best corner performance the moderate field curvature should be taken into consideration.
Then I sometimes see a hot spot in the center. Have others observed that as well? The a7's reflective sensor might play a role.
When I compared it to the Sony 4/16-35 ZA OSS the Canon FD actually had better corners at f/11.
I once had to use it for night sky photography, with "interesting" results:
CAnon nFD 2.8/20 | distortion by Phillip Reeve Data, on Flickr
Oh an I just finished my review: Canon FD 2.8/20
I would add that the flare resistance can be a problem and that for best corner performance the moderate field curvature should be taken into consideration.
Then I sometimes see a hot spot in the center. Have others observed that as well? The a7's reflective sensor might play a role.
When I compared it to the Sony 4/16-35 ZA OSS the Canon FD actually had better corners at f/11.
I once had to use it for night sky photography, with "interesting" results:
CAnon nFD 2.8/20 | distortion by Phillip Reeve Data, on FlickrOh an I just finished my review: Canon FD 2.8/20
Jun 19, 2015 at 03:21 AM