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Archive 2014 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait

  
 
dmacmillan
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p.2 #1 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


How is an unflattering photo of Sam any more truthful than a flattering photo of Sam?

Flattering or unflattering photos are created by someone who, if they have the talent capture their interpretation of the person, not necessarily the person.



Feb 27, 2014 at 03:59 PM
pointbob
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p.2 #2 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


Sorry if asked; but what camera/lens/post processing?


Feb 27, 2014 at 06:09 PM
Laszlo Bencze
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p.2 #3 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


Wow! This post has certainly sparked some fruitful discussion. I much appreciate the many thoughtful comments and will try to respond now though I'm afraid that a careful response may run into a post so long that very few would venture to read it. So if I see that happening, I'll stop and make another post.

The highly skilled photographer Lisa Holloway comments that a constant stream of flattering pictures (such as she does so extremely well) can get boring. I couldn't agree more. If the central theme of a picture is to flatter and everything else is made subservient to that goal, then the result rushes towards blandness. Extreme flattery tends to erase not only imperfections but surprisingly even important perfections! Let me explain. It is well understood that when it comes to female allure, there is a big difference between "pretty" and "beautiful." A pretty face is constantly pretty, all the time and from any angle. Think of the look of a cute high school cheer leader. A beautiful face has some major imperfection—large nose, excess forehead, wide set eyes, disproportionate chin—that counterpoints the face and makes it compelling to look at. Think of classic Hollywood movie stars like Greta Garbo, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Katherine Hepburn. Their flaws made them gorgeous and memorable.

So, returning to photography, we don’t want our flattery to erase character. The greatest offenders in this realm tend to be the wedding shooters who fuzz out any vestige of individuality and even use software programs to alter the essential proportions of a face. Too much mistiness, cuteness, sentiment, winsomeness makes all subjects look like the inhabitants of some distant neverland, utopia where people float rather than walk and the time of day is always dusk. I say dare to anchor your portrait in reality. Take a lead from the greatest portraitists: Julia Margaret Cameron, Nadar, Steichen, Richard Avedon, Arnold Newman, Irving Penn, Gregory Heisler. See how they don’t shy away from the perfect imperfection. And note how memorable their pictures are. Rush out and buy Irving Penn’s Small Trades book. You will not stop looking at it. Buy Gregory Heisler’s current and compelling 50 Portraits. It is a revelation.

Good grief! I’ve written nearly 400 words and have barely begun to respond to all of you who wrote. Please bear with me. I will resume later.



Feb 28, 2014 at 08:51 AM
canerino
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p.2 #4 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


I think its important to distinguish the difference between flattering and realistic photographs.

Realism trumps almost all things for me when it comes to my personal work. Sometimes this means that my subjects are not exactly flattered. I suppose it's just a matter of where we place our priorities and photographic vision.

I made the distinction to drive at reality when I stepped back from my body of work and realized all I had were images that were of people that I really didnt know (even though they were my own children!). I would dress them up in their best clothes, hell, I'd even buy something 'cute' for them to wear just so I could photograph. In 20, 30, 50 years...would I even recognize them? This approach also didnt satisfy me from an artistic point. I'd buy the 'sharpest' lens with the shallowest depth of field that I could afford and make the eyes sharp and blur the background. I dont think I'd still be shooting today if I were shooting this way.

Putting flattery first caused me to miss the story of my children and their childhood. I missed the fights, the scrapes, the tears, the moments when they just woke up with bedhead. I would also miss the moments that happened in less than ideal light.

This isnt to say that a realistic approach cannot be flattering. It all just really depends on the photographer's priorities.

Some of my personal work: www.growingupanerino.tumblr.com



Feb 28, 2014 at 09:25 AM
KatieInTexas
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p.2 #5 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


This topic hits home for me. I have skimmed through, but will come back when I have time and read everyone's thoughts thoroughly.

I once took a portrait of my Mother in Law. I had just had my last child and she and he were playing and I stuck them in my studio and got a great, real capture of their happiness together. Lighting was good, it looked killer in black and white (as do most things I think) and it really summed up what I thought a grandmother should be like with a new grandchild. Well, guess what. She hated it. She said "I look old". Hmmm ....

I suppose a portrait photographer would have taken that as a "I need to edit this shot more so that it is a pleasing portrait", but I simply took it as "she doesn't realize that she is in fact old now".

Some people just can't face the fact that the person in the image is what they have become. I know we all think that we are the same energetic, smooth skinned, youthful person we were 20 years ago; but we aren't that visually to the camera. What CAN be seen, though, is that this is an energetic grandma with well earned lines on the face from smiling, and some fat on her body from the glorious meals she cooks. The family resemblance in the photo of those two is also undeniable. Did she even see that? Probably not. She only saw what she thinks has changed about her face.

I am all for a flattering portrait; good light, nice color/tones, etc... but the truth will always come out in people. THAT is what I want to capture. Perhaps her portrait should have been of her staring horrified into a mirror? Just kidding, but seriously, most people only like the image of themselves they create in their head. Or from a psychological standpoint, can't seem to face what they really are when seeing themselves in a truthful light.



Feb 28, 2014 at 09:44 AM
nikt
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p.2 #6 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


It's a view , certainly understand what you mean, I just don't necessarily agree with it exactly.
Photography doesn't tell the truth all the time and portraits certainly don't.

I like to show images that 'don't' represent the person, but show the person in a completely different light.

But that's what makes photography what it is, everyone has a different view thankfully.



Feb 28, 2014 at 10:18 AM
dmacmillan
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p.2 #7 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


canerino wrote:
I made the distinction to drive at reality when I stepped back from my body of work and realized all I had were images that were of people that I really didn't know (even though they were my own children!). I would dress them up in their best clothes, hell, I'd even buy something 'cute' for them to wear just so I could photograph. In 20, 30, 50 years...would I even recognize them?

Putting flattery first caused me to miss the story of my children and their childhood. I missed the fights, the scrapes, the tears, the moments when they
...Show more
When I look around my house at the photos of my children and grandchildren on display, very few are "posed" photographs, even though when I was a professional photographer I'd take them into the camera room and put them in front of backgrounds to make the traditional formal photos.

That's not my kids or my grandkids. The photos on display are not always perfectly composed or lit. They have little, if any post processing. Instead they capture real moments of real people.

My daughter-in-law have an ongoing discussion regard my photos of one of her boys. I don't have many photos of Sam smiling, mainly because he just doesn't smile a lot. He's happy and contented, but his "at rest" face looks sad to her. Her mind's eye sees Sam smiling, mine sees his "at rest", unsmiling face.

Our preferences are similar. I also like the "flattering" photos every once in a while, but I think if you only take out the camera for posed, "fantasy" sessions, you're missing capturing a lot of great memories.



Feb 28, 2014 at 11:08 AM
Wildcats_Fans
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p.2 #8 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


Yes, but how many people want their photograph taken when they just wake up in the morning? We all have multiple sides of ourselves that are true to who we are. A basic example is women with makeup on or off. Both are how we see them on a daily basis and how they see themselves.


Feb 28, 2014 at 02:02 PM
bcguy
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p.2 #9 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


glennh56 wrote:
Interesting read.
I like the portrait of Sam.
Sam did not like the portrait of Sam.
Or maybe he did.
Sam I am.


He didn't like it in a house
He didn't like it with a mouse
He didn't like it on a train
He didn't like it in the rain
He would not, could not like the shot
not the view or the feelings it brought

I've read Green Eggs and Ham too many times for my son. Dr. Suess was a great author.

But about the photo! Awesome. Simple and perfect. Your writing is very interesting too. Thanks for the post. I enjoyed it. A good truthful photo is not easy. It can't be done later in photoshop. To do it, you have to capture something of his personality as well as his features. This you accomplished!



Feb 28, 2014 at 09:20 PM
GeorgieGirl
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p.2 #10 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


Laszlo Bencze wrote:
Wow! This post has certainly sparked some fruitful discussion. I much appreciate the many thoughtful comments and will try to respond now though I'm afraid that a careful response may run into a post so long that very few would venture to read it. So if I see that happening, I'll stop and make another post.

The highly skilled photographer Lisa Holloway comments that a constant stream of flattering pictures (such as she does so extremely well) can get boring. I couldn't agree more. If the central theme of a picture is to flatter and everything else is made subservient
...Show more


Whoa! Again I state that there is very little insight into the soul of a character in portraits. They are momentary captures that are superficial.

That you point to photogs that stage their portrait work illustrates this perfectly.

The images are pretty. But one knows nothing about the person in the images. Lisa's images are primarily of kids.

Perhaps you are mixing two completely different ideas about end result image capture in simple terms.

You're capture of Sam has little to do with Lisa's genre of kids.

You leave me very confused with your aims and goals.


( I have to edit to state I have seen some important insights in to a souls eye in photos by deinfaces)




Feb 28, 2014 at 10:28 PM
natemerz
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p.2 #11 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


Hope no one thinks this is off topic but it reminds me a bit of a recent shoot for vanity fair where the photographer took pictures of hollywood stars using a giant 20x24 polaroid camera and published the photos without post production work. It was interesting to read the comments--one person in particular suggested Brad Pitt stop drinking because he "looked like crap."

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2014/03/chuck-close-hollywood-portfolio




Mar 01, 2014 at 03:37 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #12 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


KatieInTexas wrote:
This topic hits home for me. I have skimmed through, but will come back when I have time and read everyone's thoughts thoroughly.

I once took a portrait of my Mother in Law. I had just had my last child and she and he were playing and I stuck them in my studio and got a great, real capture of their happiness together. Lighting was good, it looked killer in black and white (as do most things I think) and it really summed up what I thought a grandmother should be like with a new grandchild. Well, guess what. She
...Show more

Katie you are in good company
"It seems dangerous to be a portrait artist who does commissions for clients because everyone wants to be flattered, so they pose in such a way that there’s nothing left of truth." - Henri Cartier-Bresson

"When one sees the residuum of greatness before one's camera, one must recognize it in a flash. There is a brief moment when all that there is in a man's mind and soul and spirit may be reflected through his eyes, his hands, his attitude. This is the moment to record. This is the elusive "moment of truth". "- Yousuf Karsh

My opinion is that when someone looks at a portrait the ultimate compliment to a portrait photographer is "thats them" not, "oh don't they look pretty." The most powerful portraits, in my opinion, are the ones that reveal the subject and sometimes something deeper to. Not the way the subject might want to be. Thats not saying that i don't see a place for pretty commercial type portraits and I do them all the time (gotta eat) but for me the real stuff is what I shoot for me and it's usually trying to get to something real.



Mar 01, 2014 at 11:38 AM
Anurag
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p.2 #13 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


We were just having the same discussion on a different thread I started.

I too find excessive editing to be detrimental to the final product. But the line gets drawn (for me at least) depending on who asked whom - if someone asked me to take a picture, I give them what they desire however if I am doing so for personal reasons, they stay in Lightroom long enough to where I make sure they look the same way on the screen as they do to me in real life.



Mar 01, 2014 at 03:01 PM
Laszlo Bencze
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p.2 #14 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


Before I move on to some of the deeply thought provoking comments that have been made in response to my posting, I'd like to address a few relatively minor issues. The eyes in my portrait of Sam were lightened to the point which I determined to be just right. Any more than this would have looked strangely bright and contrary to the dark mood of the picture.

As to Georgie Girl's point about captions and descriptions adding to the story a picture tells, I fully agree. Dorothea Lange, my favorite photographer, captioned her images brilliantly because she did indeed agree that they were very important. Look at any collection of her images and I think you'll concur. It's a modern affectation amongst art photographers to title their work in brusque and unhelpful ways like "Untitled 127" or "Nebular Irony." As for portraits of Hitler, well it's impossible for us to look at him without recognizing evil incarnate; but such was not the case in 1930 when he was on his way up and into the German government. It was during those early times that the excellent photography of Heinrich Hoffman lent Hitler an aura of strength, wisdom, trustworthiness, and yes, even kindness. Remember, he was voted into office by millions of citizens.

I titled my picture "ugly" simply to attract attention. I don't really think it or my subject Sam are ugly. Nor do I think of my portrait as unflattering. I think of it as truthful. I'm surprised that a few people who look at the picture claim to see a friendly, welcoming person. You'll just have to trust me on this one. He's not and I think the portrait depicts that coldness accurately.

As for the shallow depth of field, I like it. It concentrates attention on the most critical features of the face: the eyes and mouth. With greater depth of field it would still be a good picture but not a better picture.

In my next post I'll dive deeper as I discuss profound comments made by several people.



Mar 02, 2014 at 11:03 PM
tonyfield
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p.2 #15 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


I think something is missing from this discussion.....

Portrait of people tell more about the photographer than it does about the person being photographed. A photographer "sees" people through his specific attitude towards people in general and records portraits that are consistent with the photographers world view. At best, a portrait is a "personal interpretation" and may or may not represent the subject with any degree of accuracy (how the heck do we know "who the subject" really is).

Look at Yosuf Karsh's portraits. They are completely different in all aspects compared to Avedon's portraits. Look at the work of Sam Haskins - his lovely ladies from the 1960's are, when you get down to it, a set of portraits. The same could be said about David Hamilton with his beautiful portraits of youth.

All of my portraits in my garage doorway are yet another divergent view of the people I photograph. Portraits are a matter of the photographers style --- lighting, location, attitude, etc. For example, here is a set of portraits - the only thing in common is the shooting in my garage doorway, style of lighting that happens (all daylight) and my personal view of women. Shooting time for each portrait is usually 3 minutes or less and 25 or fewer snaps. You know nothing of the ladies, all you can do is judge the images as "photographs" and your judgment may be very divergent from the nature of the real person:

http://pix.tphoto.ca/random/andrea01.jpg
http://pix.tphoto.ca/random/elena44.jpg
http://pix.tphoto.ca/random/port02.jpg
http://pix.tphoto.ca/random/novi01.jpg
http://pix.tphoto.ca/random/jackie00.jpg
http://pix.tphoto.ca/random/port06.jpg





Mar 03, 2014 at 12:54 AM
DianeinCR
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p.2 #16 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


While I do not believe I am qualified to comment on the merits of either image, I feel compelled to question the statement, "Obviously Sam did not like the portrait. He would never have paid me a penny for it. Yet I was capable of taking a flattering portrait of him."

I wonder if Sam verbalized his dislike for the image of himself, or if perhaps he just poo-pooed it in a dismissive fashion?

When I looked at the image of Sam I thought that he wouldn't likely be a person who would ascribe much value to portraits, but that he was most likely secretly pleased with this shot. I imagined he thought it a good likeness...maybe liked that his eyes were straight forward and solid...and that the details of his hair, skin and clothing were not in focus as they are of little significance to him anyway.

I should say that I am not someone who enjoys a heavily post processed portrait. Occasionally I find one that pleases me, however I would say those images grab me more due to the setting (and the person just happens to be in it).

Flattery AND truth! I am thinking you have captured both in this image. There is nothing "ugly" in your shot. Sam prefers to look at the world straight on while Hitler turns away to protect his secret(s).

Great discussion with much food for thought...

Edited on Mar 03, 2014 at 06:01 PM · View previous versions



Mar 03, 2014 at 10:28 AM
goosemang
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p.2 #17 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


Laszlo Bencze wrote:
I'm surprised that a few people who look at the picture claim to see a friendly, welcoming person. You'll just have to trust me on this one. He's not and I think the portrait depicts that coldness accurately.



I'm also someone who sees this in the image. Maybe not welcoming, particularly, but there's something about his eyes.... like underneath it all there is an honest, caring person.

Good portrait. Good thread. Thanks.



Mar 03, 2014 at 11:02 AM
jsbeith
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p.2 #18 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


That portrait of Sam is good - really good. It may not be how he envisions himself, but it is a solid portrait.


Mar 03, 2014 at 12:56 PM
mjgphotoz
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p.2 #19 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait





What a wonderful and thought provoking thread! Let me throw a little more into the stew pot.

If we who make a living as professional photographers sometimes "like our snapshots" better than our studio work or feel they better portray a moment or the subject, why is that Are we over posing in the studio? Are we not getting our clients to relate to us and "forget the camera"?? If sometimes the moment and the subject trump technique and aesthetics how do we justify our profession when there are GWCs and Moms WCs who are very happy with their snapshots that depict Suzy or Johnny "as they are" at some time and place? Can we explain to a bride or client why they shouldn't use a friend to document their wedding, or later, their maternity, newborns, or other life's events? Might they not get lucky and capture the moment better or as well?

On the flip side, when we as experienced photographers take PJ images of our subjects, do we suddenly forget depth of field, lighting, composition and exposure? Are these not so ingrained subconsciously that we use them in spite of ourselves?? Do we ever get past some of our acquired concepts of what will look good in the traditional sense?? Don't these all color our work in spite of our intent? Would we be happy to let the world see the results?? Can we convey to a client that one must be a master of the rules to break the rules successfully without actually saying it verbally and looking like a pompous twit? Do we promise on a stack of Webster's that we won't ever, ever, over post process an image again

This conversation really caught my attention due to an experience I had two weeks age. I attended a get together with a client that is also a dear, dear friend. As always I had a camera bag with me. Her husband's cousin, also a client, was there with her two small children and husband, as were their in-laws. I was asked to take a group photo of their family. Bingo. I am now looking at a background I cannot stand, people who do not wish to be posed and about 1 minute to take a shot or two, which I did. The following morning I was looking at the images and trying to determine how the dickens I was going to create an image from the files that would not cause me a heart attack if posted on FB. I went so far as to take the image I liked best into PS6, dupe the layer, change the background, start touching up facial blemishes etc. I kept wondering why the heck didn't I make them pose in a manner that would actually represent my work ?? Really? Is it because they know I am a photographer that makes a living at it? Because I think they expect it Because ego won't allow me to let a photo out of my control that I created and wasn't satisfied with even if it accurately captured the moment and their family dynamics I deleted the processed PS file and went back and used the original... but it sure did make me uncomfortable and this thread perhaps sheds some light on why.

mjgphotoz





Mar 03, 2014 at 03:17 PM
Laszlo Bencze
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p.2 #20 · Flattery or Truth: My Ugly Portrait


I had every intention of replying to all the insightful responses my post garnered. But there were so many good ones that a comprehensive response promised to become a lengthy textbook. So please forgive me mjgphotoz, tonyfield, airfrogusmc, KatieInTexas, dmacmillan, John Caldwell, Wildcats_Fans, and many others as I turn my attention to the single most touching comment on the essence of photography I have ever read and that includes hundreds of books and thousands of magazine articles:

canerino wrote:
I made the distinction to drive at reality when I stepped back from my body of work and realized all I had were images that were of people that I really didn’t know (even though they were my own children!). I would dress them up in their best clothes, hell, I'd even buy something 'cute' for them to wear just so I could photograph. In 20, 30, 50 years...would I even recognize them? This approach also didn’t satisfy me from an artistic point. I'd buy the 'sharpest' lens with the shallowest depth of field that I could afford and make
...Show more

Mr. Anerino’s heartfelt words of self-reproach caution us all. What might we be missing as we pump up cuteness, augment the adorable, emphasize sexiness, and steamroll imperfection? The answer is life itself. As for Mr. Anerino, a look at his personal website (which I urge everyone to study: www.growingupanerino.tumblr.com) shows that he learned his lesson and moved on to create images of his family which are wonderful, authentic, lively, real, and truthful. We see newborn babies, children doing homework, playing on the floor, ogling birthday cakes, peeing in the shower, taking naps, reading to one another on the sofa, or leaping from the coffee table. These are pictures that rise way above personal family documentation to the level of fine documentary photography in the grand tradition of Eugene Smith and Elliott Erwitt. They are not merely “my kids” but childhood itself.

But there’s a fascinating aspect to this set of family photos: though they avoid all the standard tricks of flattery (you know the drill) they are intensely beautiful—even the little boy peeing in the shower—and hence deeply flattering. They make the viewer say, “What a beautiful family. What sweet moments. I wish it were mine.”

These musings lead me to the big question: Why do we bother to take good pictures? After all the world is filled with crappy snapshots taken on millions of cellphones and most people seem to ooh and aah about these as if they were treasures from the Louvre. Why go through the hassles brought on by being self critical? Why be diligent in studying the best work of the past and striving to raise our standards to match? That’s hard work.

So here’s the big answer: I believe we are designed to seek for perfect beauty, perfect love, perfect home. If we dig hard enough in our photographic efforts by mastering technique and improving our taste we get glimpses of the perfections we seek. And those hard won glimpses, if we can preserve them well enough to show to others, bring immense satisfaction. No, they will never be perfect. That’s not attainable. But they point towards perfection and that is enough to invigorate our souls and sometimes even the souls of those who see them.



Mar 05, 2014 at 08:42 PM
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