p.3 #1 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
ohsnaphappy wrote:
I'll definitely say this, Nikon's 50's are incredible for the price. When I switched from Canon I couldn't believe how good the 50 1.4G was, especially compared to Canon's. Anyone who's just getting started, when they ask, I tell them the same thing, just get the 50 1.8G and shoot in aperture priority.
That's more a commentary of how lousy Canon's cheap 50's are, both are ancient designs that were merely good when new. The Canon 50/1.4 is comparable in performance to Nikon's 50/1.4D (ironically, the Nikkor's optical design is 20+ years older than the Canon's, originally dating to the pre-AI 50/1.4). The G however is a modern design and notably better as it should be.
p.3 #2 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
ohsnaphappy wrote:
I think I'm just looking at this lens differently than many of you. I'm not looking at the 1.4G vs 1.8G vs. Sigma vs Otus etc. I look at the 58 1.4G as my opportunity to finally get the Noct. I have a friend who shoots with the Noct. Look at his Flickr. http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhotelin/
Portrait photographers, like myself, lust after this lens. It's magical. And now I have one for half the price. And I think that's exactly why Nikon made it.
If I was just in the market for the sharpest 50 out there, which many of you are, then I'd understand why the 58 1.4G frustrates you. ...Show more →
From that perspective, buy the 58 Nokton. You'll be pleasantly surprised. Aside from wide-open correction (irrelevant for portraits, important for astrophotography) it's every bit as good as the 58G, has very similar bokeh and costs $400. No AF though. It's functionally a clone of the old Topcon 58/1.4, which is very similar in optical design to both the Noct and the well-regarded Minolta 58/1.2, which also renders similarly to the Noct.
Feb 01, 2014 at 11:23 PM
Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #3 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
j.liam wrote:
You miss "mawz" point. With exquisitely corrected optics like the Sony 55 and others coming out for $1000 or less, don't you think Nikon could have done more than simply faithfully emulate and tweak a lens designed almost 40 years ago?
That it's 1/2 the price of a collectible is hardly meaningful; what are you getting for the extra $1300-1500 over their own next best offerings.
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I do agree that for $1700 the lens should be somewhat sharper wide open and probably should be f/1.2 to boot given the march of 40 years of technology ... but aside from that, it seems like it's quite the performer. To get anything better costs some $2300 more and looses you AF.
Feb 02, 2014 at 12:37 AM
Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #4 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
mawz wrote:
I'm praising the Noct for being a legend, and I understand the costs for an extremely rare collectible. Wouldn't buy one today, not at that cost. But it is rightly considered a legend (and like many legends, has been passed by in performance). Note a Noct cost new only a little more than a 58G does today (and it was a hand assembled lens with custom-ground elements, far more expensive to manufacture), it's only used and effectively as a collectors item that it got so expensive. Same thing happened with the 28/1.4D.
The 58G is no legend. It's a good lens, but costs world-class money and doesn't deliver world-class performance. Neither does the Noct today, but the Noct isn't a modern design and I don't expect modern performance from a lens designed 37 years ago....Show more →
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I'm glad you explained yourself ... this makes much more sense. Legends are great if you take them in context of their time ... but as compared to modern stuff, legends turn out to be has-beens.
p.3 #5 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
Andre Labonte wrote:
I'm glad you explained yourself ... this makes much more sense. Legends are great if you take them in context of their time ... but as compared to modern stuff, legends turn out to be has-beens.
last I checked exotic glass was still in fashion, demand, and still of significance. Even though you don't mention specifically the Noct in your sentence you certainly imply it. It is hardly something I would call a has-been.
p.3 #6 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
funwithlight wrote:
last I checked exotic glass was still in fashion, demand, and still of significance. Even though you don't mention specifically the Noct in your sentence you certainly imply it. It is hardly something I would call a has-been.
I agree. You won't find anything that renders like the Noct, except the new 58
I follow portrait photographers who work with the Noct. Some even photograph celebrities. The only reason why the lens fetches $3500-$5000 today is precisely because of it's unmatched rendering.
I also want to challenge the notion that modern lenses are automatically superior. There's a thread on this forum that features over 3000 posts demonstrating just how remarkable Nikon's classic lenses are. In many cases I prefer the classic rendering of these "outdated" lenses. They have a lot of soul.
I think Nikon recognized this interest and designed a new 58 that would imitate the previous model while improving on some of its faults. I maintain that they did a remarkable job, especially considering that the 1.4 renders bokeh just as well as the older 1.2.
Feb 02, 2014 at 01:19 AM
Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #7 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
funwithlight wrote:
last I checked exotic glass was still in fashion, demand, and still of significance. Even though you don't mention specifically the Noct in your sentence you certainly imply it. It is hardly something I would call a has-been.
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Agreed, exotic glass is in fashion for one of two reasons:
1) Collection due to it being exotic
2) Capability that cannot be found in current glass.
For the Noct, #2 has been eliminated by the 58mm as it gives similar performance at half the price. #1 holds no interest for me.
p.3 #11 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
Andre Labonte wrote:
Agreed, exotic glass is in fashion for one of two reasons:
1) Collection due to it being exotic
2) Capability that cannot be found in current glass.
For the Noct, #2 has been eliminated by the 58mm as it gives similar performance at half the price. #1 holds no interest for me.
I think legendary lenses are only created with one way... end of production+unique rendering.
The Noct and the 58G are both great lenses that produce amazing images. Many complain about the 58G and how it fails to perform "sharper" comparing to other lenses in production. Nevertheless, most fail to understand that there is no other lens on the market that render the same except another one that's more expensive and even more difficult to find.
The noct, before it became a legend of its own, was often criticized for its ridiculous price and limited usage. It was until a few years AFTER its discontinuation that people/collectors started to realize that there wasn't anything on the market that quite matches the Noct and the price just went completely nuts.
IMO, if Nikon decides to call it quit on the 58G tomorrow... better buy yourself a few copies before it vanishes from the shelves because there isn't another lens that renders quite like it.
Take the Otus for example, I personally don't feel the rush to get it (not anymore at least). And the reason is that the images it creates lack character; except it might be exceptionally sharp comparing to everything else. However, It's only a matter of time someone else come up with one that is almost as sharp (the new Sigma Art is rumoured to do just that at a fraction of Otus' cost) to replace it and their images would look identical; perfect color reproduction, perfect sharpness and minimal comma. It's a perfect tool, but that perfection don't make them a legend.
p.3 #12 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
Notwithstanding a few (needlessly) snarky posts, this has been an illuminating thread.
From the adamant voices here, Nikon has clearly catered to an unmet need, following up with a lens that renders like the much-cherished NOCT; one comment I can make that won't get blow-back is that they rightly should have done so five years ago, an error they paid for with the delay in a fast 35.
It is refreshing to see that there is a cornucopia of choice now, seemingly an ever-growing one, between modern, ultra-sharp, high-contrast optics that function at unheard of levels wide open and the more classic rendering style, still preferred by many. Cosina, as well as some of the Zeiss Z* series (notably the VM 1,5/50 ASPH and Z* 1,4/35, respectively) have good company.
Feb 03, 2014 at 10:12 AM
Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #13 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
azenis wrote:
I think legendary lenses are only created with one way... end of production+unique rendering.
The Noct and the 58G are both great lenses that produce amazing images. Many complain about the 58G and how it fails to perform "sharper" comparing to other lenses in production. Nevertheless, most fail to understand that there is no other lens on the market that render the same except another one that's more expensive and even more difficult to find.
The noct, before it became a legend of its own, was often criticized for its ridiculous price and limited usage. It was until a few years AFTER its discontinuation that people/collectors started to realize that there wasn't anything on the market that quite matches the Noct and the price just went completely nuts.
IMO, if Nikon decides to call it quit on the 58G tomorrow... better buy yourself a few copies before it vanishes from the shelves because there isn't another lens that renders quite like it.
Take the Otus for example, I personally don't feel the rush to get it (not anymore at least). And the reason is that the images it creates lack character; except it might be exceptionally sharp comparing to everything else. However, It's only a matter of time someone else come up with one that is almost as sharp (the new Sigma Art is rumoured to do just that at a fraction of Otus' cost) to replace it and their images would look identical; perfect color reproduction, perfect sharpness and minimal comma. It's a perfect tool, but that perfection don't make them a legend....Show more →
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My comment clearly assumes that the [legendary] exotic glass was out of production and was illustrating that the Noct no longer holds as much interest to many since the 58G now produces similar character & performance at half the price.
I don't care about "legend". I care about performance and if something new can get me the same thing at half the price, that's where money is going.
Also, I have yet to see a side by side that shows this unique "character" of the 58 G that makes it so much better than say a 50 1/4G or 50 1/8G ... and likewise a comparison to the Otus. If someone can explain and show it to me, that would be great ... otherwise, I like what I see out of the Otus better but find it too expensive. And it seems I can get similar performance to the 58G from a much less expensive lens.
p.3 #15 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
I'm preferring #1 at first glance but would love to see larger examples. At this point I would still buy the Noct because I think my $ is much safer there and, well, it's a legend
You rock for getting this gear together, I think we should take up a collection and hire you a model for some more testing
p.3 #17 · Clash of Titans - Battle for the ultimate Nocturnal lens
I think the bottom 2 are the Nikon's since they're the most similar. I'm going to guess the middle on is the Noct. Ha! This is fun!!! Thanks for posting. Next do a portrait
