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Archive 2013 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?

  
 
Bones74
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p.4 #1 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


molson wrote:
A puzzling comment. Have you actually used either system?


Risedal is making an inane and daft comment about racial stereotypes in his endless quest to pan anything with a Canon logo on it.



Dec 04, 2013 at 05:57 PM
Michaelparris
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p.4 #2 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?



BRAVO!!!
akclimber wrote:
I own a 5D2, 5D3 & D800E. My quick, bulletized thoughts are below (I've not read the thread so sorry if this is redundant or unduly controversial)

Buy a D800e if you:

1) Want the best sensor in and image quality from a DSLR, especially at ISOs up to about 400 (but even past that it's about a wash).

2) Need or want high DR or hate Canon's banded and blocked up shadows.

3) Need or want in-camera, easy to use intervalometer and/or timelapses

4) Need or want a built in viewfinder curtain

5) Need or want the highest resolution sensor in a DSLR

6) Already own
...Show more



Dec 04, 2013 at 11:45 PM
dehowie
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p.4 #3 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


I dont think you need any tests to prove that the Canon AF is superior to Nikons.
If you need any evidence just look in the Nikon forum..



Dec 05, 2013 at 02:16 AM
akclimber
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p.4 #4 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


dehowie wrote:
I dont think you need any tests to prove that the Canon AF is superior to Nikons.
If you need any evidence just look in the Nikon forum..


Man, I dunno. 5D2/5D3 vs D800e AF? It's about even as far as I can tell. Maybe Canon gets a slight edge on initial AF lock but they seem to track about the same. Granted, I haven't shot many small fast moving critters with the D800e but for bigger moving critters (whales/bears) tracking is OK with both cams.



Dec 05, 2013 at 02:32 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #5 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


SOMEONE wrote:
A puzzling comment. Have you actually used either system?


(The attributions in the original may have been a bit off, so I removed the names to avoid misidentification - and to move the thinking away from the person and towards the issue.)

I value the thoughts of people who have used products that are under discussion. This is one of the reasons that I enjoy spending time with friends and colleagues who shoot with a variety of gear and who will, in idle moments, talk about their experiences. These folks can often offer direct commentary that others of us cannot, since most of us made a decision to work with one or the other.

On the other hand, I'm often amused at and occasionally annoyed by the reflexive dismissal of any comment from people who have not used both or all of the products under discussion - typically from a commenter who disagrees in some way with the thoughts presented. (While people often employ this argument when they hold a contrary opinion, I don't recall ever hearing: "I agree with your opinions completely... but please don't post them since you haven't used both systems!" ;-)

A few things to think about:

1. Some people who don't own both options (cameras, lenses, cars, computers, furniture, televisions, etc.) made a carefully researched choice among the options, and in the process developed a great deal of knowledge of the options, including those that he/she ultimately did not select. While we can argue that the rare person who owns every camera, lens, car, computer, couch, television, etc. can have a better basis for offering first-hand comparisons, it does not follow that the person who educated himself or herself about the options has nothing worth saying. In fact, these people often know a great deal about the options.

2. In other cases, people who do not own each of the options under discussion may well work closely with other photographers who do and, in fact, may have had extensive discussions of their comparative first-hand experiences with the different products. (In my case, I've shot extensively with a colleague who added a D800e to his MF digital system, and we have spent a great deal of time discussing the differences among these and various other systems, and circumstances in which any of them might or might not be the best choice.)

3. General principles apply that may not be obvious to the OP in many cases. A person who has not used a D800, for example, can accurately point out the objective potential difference in native pixel resolution from the higher MP system without having used any of the cameras being compared, or set straight a poster who imagines that no one complains about Brand X and everyone complains about Brand Y, or help someone understand the unfortunate role that brand loyalty (or brand hatred) can play in some discussions, or point out the settled knowledge that brand distinctions tend to even out over time.

I think all of us value thoughtful input from people who have extensive experience with various products, but the dismissal of contributions from all who do not own and extensively use both systems is simplistic and misguided. This, and personalizing the discussions by speculating about the personal competence and motives of other participants, do little to improve the quality of forum discussions.

Carry on... ;-)

Dan



Dec 05, 2013 at 11:59 AM
snapsy
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p.4 #6 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


dehowie wrote:
I dont think you need any tests to prove that the Canon AF is superior to Nikons.
If you need any evidence just look in the Nikon forum..


Neither my D800 nor 5DM3 hardly ever miss in AF. I would rate them as exactly equal.



Dec 05, 2013 at 12:28 PM
Lasse Eriksson
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p.4 #7 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


If you don't have any lenses go for the Nikon for landscape shooting. If owning lenses go for the brand you already have lenses for


Dec 05, 2013 at 12:29 PM
abqnmusa
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p.4 #8 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


simple D800 is useless. it cannot accept my Canon lenses


Dec 05, 2013 at 12:29 PM
galenapass
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p.4 #9 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


I do agree that the complete dismissal of contributions from those who have no practical experience is somewhat misguided; however, giving such an opinion equal weight is also misguided and simplistic.


Dec 05, 2013 at 12:32 PM
galenapass
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p.4 #10 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


snapsy wrote:
Neither my D800 nor 5DM3 hardly ever miss in AF. I would rate them as exactly equal.


I am an avid fan of gear renting (often a cheaper way of satisfying the lust to play with new gear ), and based upon my limited rental experience with both cameras simultaneously, I would concur.



Dec 05, 2013 at 12:35 PM
chez
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p.4 #11 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


galenapass wrote:
I do agree that the complete dismissal of contributions from those who have no practical experience is somewhat misguided; however, giving such an opinion equal weight is also misguided and simplistic.


Totally agree...everyone has an opinion...its a matter of how you go about separating knowledgable opinions from just opinions. One good measure, and for me it's a must, is has the person giving their opinion actually used the equipment? If not...then its just another opinion and goes into the big bucket at the end of my desk.



Dec 05, 2013 at 01:11 PM
chez
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p.4 #12 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


galenapass wrote:
I am an avid fan of gear renting (often a cheaper way of satisfying the lust to play with new gear ), and based upon my limited rental experience with both cameras simultaneously, I would concur.


Case in point about opinions. I see many on these forms that state the Nikon D800 AF is way inferior to the 5D3...yet people who actually use both cameras say both AF systems are great. Now who do you believe...someone who used the camera, or someone with just an opinion?



Dec 05, 2013 at 01:13 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #13 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


galenapass wrote:
I do agree that the complete dismissal of contributions from those who have no practical experience is somewhat misguided; however, giving such an opinion equal weight is also misguided and simplistic.


Of course. It would seem "misguided and simplistic" to think such a thing, but I have not seen such an absurd point of view proposed here. Have you? ;-)

Dan



Dec 05, 2013 at 02:08 PM
form
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p.4 #14 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


Any time I start to think of selling off my Nikon D800 again, I have but to reexamine the shadow noise in my 5d2/5d3 files...and look at the noise traits (Nikon noise looks much more random).

I'm experimenting with the 5d3's HDR mode now, going to see how flexible the files are. They may be what I need to make the 5d3 worthwhile again.
**update** oh #$&@, it only saves the HDR file as JPG. That's crap for me. My workflow is 100% RAW...no color flexibility with JPG...

So it seems that, in order to get any good dynamic range, I still have to either shoot Nikon or do heavy post-HDR editing, which takes forever.

Edited on Dec 05, 2013 at 03:02 PM · View previous versions



Dec 05, 2013 at 02:38 PM
snapsy
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p.4 #15 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


form wrote:
Any time I start to think of selling off my Nikon D800 again, I have but to reexamine the shadow noise in my 5d2/5d3 files...and look at the noise traits (Nikon noise looks much more random).

I'm experimenting with the 5d3's HDR mode now, going to see how flexible the files are. They may be what I need to make the 5d3 worthwhile again.
**update** oh #$&@, it only saves the HDR file as JPG. That's crap for me. My workflow is 100% RAW...no color flexibility with JPG...


What's prompting you to consider letting go of the D800 again though?



Dec 05, 2013 at 02:46 PM
form
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p.4 #16 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


Convenience, it's still a PITA to carry around two systems, expensive to own two sets of lenses, etc...

And I have never loved Nikon's lenses. They're the reason I sold my first D800. Then I bought several more D800s to get a good-focusing one just because of the horrid Canon shadow noise. But I don't really trust the 35 f/1.4g to focus accurately (because it misses fairly often), and D800 files are huge, and for the most part I'm not enthralled by the bokeh styling of any Nikon lenses (the new 58 f/1.4g does interest me, but $1700 is steep and I'd still lose 1/3 stop vs the Canon equivalent).



Dec 05, 2013 at 03:04 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #17 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


form wrote:
Convenience, it's still a PITA to carry around two systems, expensive to own two sets of lenses, etc...

And I have never loved Nikon's lenses. They're the reason I sold my first D800. Then I bought several more D800s to get a good-focusing one just because of the horrid Canon shadow noise. But I don't really trust the 35 f/1.4g to focus accurately (because it misses fairly often), and D800 files are huge, and for the most part I'm not enthralled by the bokeh styling of any Nikon lenses (the new 58 f/1.4g does interest me, but $1700 is steep and
...Show more

As always... both Canon and Nikon make great gear... but neither Canon nor Nikon (yet) make perfect gear for all situations and all photographers. :-)

Dan



Dec 05, 2013 at 03:08 PM
AGeoJO
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p.4 #18 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


gdanmitchell wrote:
As always... both Canon and Nikon make great gear... but neither Canon nor Nikon (yet) make perfect gear for all situations and all photographers. :-)

Dan



Ain't that the truth...



Dec 05, 2013 at 03:13 PM
form
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p.4 #19 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


Just doing comparisons again for myself, 5d3 vs d800, and the difference in shadows at ISO100 is...still huge.

That's why I bought the D800 again. At ISO100, I start noticing lines and shadow chroma noise (that might show in print) at 2 stops shadow pushing of 5d3 files in LR. I notice no chroma noise that would show in print at 4 stops shadow pushing of d800 files.

Not only is there less noise in the D800 files, but there's more detail to bring back in the shadows.

At 3 stops pushing shadows, I maxed color NR and set luminance at about 44% for the 5d3 file to try to match the d800 shadow noise. The 5d3 still shows blotchiness, and the fine grain details of things like a cherrywood piano are just smears.



Dec 05, 2013 at 03:37 PM
form
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p.4 #20 · Canon 5D Mark III or Nikon D800e?


Checking in LR, playing with ISO6400 files for comparison's sake...5d3 vs d800 -

Base output d800 is probably about 1/3 stop darker at ISO6400.

At LR base noise reduction (25 chroma, 0 lum)...When d800 boosted 1/3 stop, compared noise traits to 5d3 in a nearly black area. Boosted shadows of each image by 2 stops. The 5d3 shows more chroma noise and a finer luminance noise grain overall (grain size difference is reduced/eliminated when images are resized or printed at similar sizes).

12800, similar but the d800 has the purple burn on the bottom. Not that the 5d3 is devoid of any burn effect...but it's less.



Dec 05, 2013 at 05:14 PM
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