RustyBug wrote:
+1 ... the tradeoffs of the projection are design choices.
+1 @ popularity of 35mm vs. 18mm. Imo, 35mm isn't exactly much of a wide, given that 43 is normal. Move on in to 28, 24, 21, 18, 15 territory and the story gets progressively more challenging. Not exactly rocket science, but it seems that some want to discount the increasing difficulties of such because they see a good result from their favorite RF 35mm FL.
Somebody double check, but it looks like the ZF 18/3.5 (59mm) / ZE 18/3.5 (61mm) are listed shorter than the ZM 18/4 (65mm) ... hmmm @ longer, slower and more vignetting for the RF.
But, to give fair credence to the ZM ... look at how it performs at the 10mm mark for f8. Inside 12mm (i.e. 24 x 24), the ZM takes the MTF, particularly @ the tangential, both in absolute terms and relative to the sagittal for micro-contrast. Optical design ... imo, a synonym for choose your poison....Show more →
Not sure about the ZF/ZE range, but I know that Zeiss includes both caps in the measurements for ZM lenses, for some reason.
Gary Clennan wrote:
Interesting points Ron. Actually, the 28mm FL is the one I am looking to fill at the moment. I don't want to spring for the 28cron and was considering the ZM28 as the best RF option at the moment. I like to keep my kit small and would rather not go with an SLR lens. This would be primarily a landscape lens for me to edge/corner performance would be very important. Any other RF choices? Konica Hexanon?
The 28 Cron Asph is a great lens to use, and performs well on the M9/Monochrome and M240. Historically the 28 Cron was relegated to more documentary style photography, and really came back into vogue when the M8 was introduced, filling the 35FL effective gap. I have the 28 Cron, and was great with the M9, as no external VF was needed. Now with the M240, the 21 SEM and 24 Lux with LV, these are easy options without having to put on the external VF. Maybe this is why Leica upgraded the 35 Lux Asph first, and then the 21 SEM.
lambers wrote:
...It would be interesting to know what percentage of forum member's shots are taken with focal lengths wider than 35mm. I like to have a 21mm sitting at the bottom of my bag, but only pull it out 5% of the time.
A poll on RF Forum showed that for 90% of people the most used focal lengths on 35mm format were from 35mm and up.
A while ago I looked at my M9 Lightroom stats and I think 21mm was around 1/3 of the total. I would estimate 2/3 of my rangefinder images are wider than 35/50mm.
Gary Clennan wrote:
Interesting points Ron. Actually, the 28mm FL is the one I am looking to fill at the moment. I don't want to spring for the 28cron and was considering the ZM28 as the best RF option at the moment. I like to keep my kit small and would rather not go with an SLR lens. This would be primarily a landscape lens for me to edge/corner performance would be very important. Any other RF choices? Konica Hexanon?
Did you sell your Elmarit? I don't know if I still have the test images I did with the CV28/2 and ZM28... From memory, the CV lagged the ZM at the edges by probably a couple stops, was a bit lower contrast and had focus shift... there was still edge improvement at f/11. The ZM is centrally very sharp with high micro contrast, but you'll probably have to stop it down to f/8 for the edges. The MTF at 5.6 still looks pretty wanting. I think a friend has one and maybe I can borrow it at some point for some additional test photos.
As for other 28mm RF options... I guess there are the older Leica Elmarits. No idea how they perform, but I suspect they're technically not as good as the ASPHs. Haven't tried or researched the Konica. Wasn't there also one from Minolta for the CL? Also the vintage Canon and Nikons... and from MS Optical in Japan... But in terms of new from the major brands, there are only 4 that I know of.
rscheffler wrote:
A while ago I looked at my M9 Lightroom stats and I think 21mm was around 1/3 of the total. I would estimate 2/3 of my rangefinder images are wider than 35/50mm.
Did you sell your Elmarit? I don't know if I still have the test images I did with the CV28/2 and ZM28... From memory, the CV lagged the ZM at the edges by probably a couple stops, was a bit lower contrast and had focus shift... there was still edge improvement at f/11. The ZM is centrally very sharp with high micro contrast, but you'll probably have to stop it down to f/8 for the edges. The MTF at 5.6 still looks pretty wanting. I think a friend has one and maybe I can borrow it at some point for some additional test photos.
As for other 28mm RF options... I guess there are the older Leica Elmarits. No idea how they perform, but I suspect they're technically not as good as the ASPHs. Haven't tried or researched the Konica. Wasn't there also one from Minolta for the CL? Also the vintage Canon and Nikons... and from MS Optical in Japan... But in terms of new from the major brands, there are only 4 that I know of....Show more →
The 28 Elmarit Asph is very sharp and has excellent contrast. I am sorry that I sold it, to upgrade to the 28 Cron, as it is so light and ergonomic. This would be a great lens to try on the A7's!
I keep forgeting I have a near perfect v3 Elmarit 28, which i've meant to sell, but now hold as backup. Somebody was saying it was a good candidate for A7r, as it is not compact.
At any rate if I ever get a camera I can test. I think they go for 800.
I ordered A7r first 5 mins from B&H, but they've no clue what they are going to get to start. Still showing Dec 1.
I keep tweeting Sony Pres Phil to hurry it up, haha.
lambers wrote:
Wow! This is a seriously long thread. It would be interesting to know what percentage of forum member's shots are taken with focal lengths wider than 35mm. I like to have a 21mm sitting at the bottom of my bag, but only pull it out 5% of the time.
A poll on RF Forum showed that for 90% of people the most used focal lengths on 35mm format were from 35mm and up.
uhoh7 wrote:
I'm still wrapping my head around the idea that my 28 cron on the A7r will show me the same FOV as the zm18 does on the 5n, or roughly so.
And the zm 18 will be like a 12mm on the 5n
a 35 will give the FOV of a 24 on the 5n....
long time coming.....
With the cropping you'll need to do (to account for the smearing), you'll be back to square one.
rscheffler wrote:
Did you sell your Elmarit? I don't know if I still have the test images I did with the CV28/2 and ZM28... From memory, the CV lagged the ZM at the edges by probably a couple stops, was a bit lower contrast and had focus shift... there was still edge improvement at f/11. The ZM is centrally very sharp with high micro contrast, but you'll probably have to stop it down to f/8 for the edges. The MTF at 5.6 still looks pretty wanting. I think a friend has one and maybe I can borrow it at some point for some additional test photos.
As for other 28mm RF options... I guess there are the older Leica Elmarits. No idea how they perform, but I suspect they're technically not as good as the ASPHs. Haven't tried or researched the Konica. Wasn't there also one from Minolta for the CL? Also the vintage Canon and Nikons... and from MS Optical in Japan... But in terms of new from the major brands, there are only 4 that I know of....Show more →
Yes, I sold the Elmarit and decided to try the 21/35/50/etc combo. For landscape, I do miss the 28mm FL a fair bit. I don't want to spend much (<$1000) so the ZM28 may be the one I try first.
I checked my LR DB and have shot 35mm and wider for 52% of my shots…. Guess I am in the minority. Or I just love my 21SEM so much it skews the results!
Gary Clennan wrote:
Yes, I sold the Elmarit and decided to try the 21/35/50/etc combo. For landscape, I do miss the 28mm FL a fair bit. I don't want to spend much (<$1000) so the ZM28 may be the one I try first.
Gary, you might want to consider the ZM 25 as well. In reality it is closer to a 28 than a 24, probably around 26-27mm FL. I ordered from Zeiss a (free) 28mm mount so that it brings out the 28mm frames. It took my local technician less than 5 minutes to change the mounts.
uhoh7 wrote:
I do, bought it after seeing one of Philber's incredible Paris shots, and have used it often---as u know the 5n likes it
Philber got a nex-7 I think which is not so great with it, and he moved to one of the sels, i think.
It was the NEX-7 that sparked fear of the future in me in the first place, but I still wish I'd kept that one. Its great on the GXR even if it is a faux 28mm. I did keep the GXR though. Youngest son and I fight over who uses it some days, now that the D800 is gone.
SKumar25 wrote:
I hope I'm not. Not looking great for my 21 SEM though...
Let me get my oujui board........hmmmmm yayaya.....oh wait the lights are on...oooooyayaya..boop Ok it says you will be fine at APS-H f/5.6
Hope it's better yet, what a killer lens that is...drool.
michaelwatkins wrote:
It was the NEX-7 that sparked fear of the future in me in the first place, but I still wish I'd kept that one. Its great on the GXR even if it is a faux 28mm. I did keep the GXR though. Youngest son and I fight over who uses it some days, now that the D800 is gone.
I bet the zm18 is superb on the GXR.
Like I mentioned earlier Brian Smith swears you can get the edges in FF on the A7r--he did not say what aperture.
I do have some SLR backup:
nFD 20/2.8
Kiron 28/2 (pretty friggin sharp actually)
PC nikkor 28/3.5
FD 35/2 SSC convex
PC nikkor 35/2.8
a 40/1.8 pancake
bunch of 50s
edwardkaraa wrote:
Gary, you might want to consider the ZM 25 as well. In reality it is closer to a 28 than a 24, probably around 26-27mm FL. I ordered from Zeiss a (free) 28mm mount so that it brings out the 28mm frames. It took my local technician less than 5 minutes to change the mounts.
Thanks Edward - I have always wanted to try that lens out so it may be an option.
I think they go for 800.
u might be right, but if not, I'll remind u later 
