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Archive 2013 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses

  
 
douglasf13
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p.12 #1 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Makten wrote:
I'm mostly interested in a really good 35 mm lens for the α7 or α7r, but I have a hard time choosing what to aim at, regardless of price. Here's a little list I compiled, where the * indicates that I've tried it myself:


  1. *ZM 35/2.8 – Fantastic lens with great 3D and smooth bokeh, but a tad slow.

  2. ZM 35/2 – Seems great and affordable, but gives occasionally harsh bokeh wide open. Optimized for non-closeup work.

  3. CV 35/2.5 – Small and sharp, but only in the middle and with great bokeh. Slow max speed.

  4. *CV 35/1.4 – Acceptable, old school rendering and sharp
  5. CV 40/1.4 – Probably much like the above, but seems better overall and with less COF.

  6. *CV 35/1.2 – Best bokeh around, but hazy wide open and a bit bulky. Very allround characteristics though.

  7. *Summicron-C 40/2 – Old school rendering with very nice "glow" wide open (totally different from the 35/1.2 WO haze) and very sharp stopped down from f/2.8, but gives almost as bad COF as the CV 35/1.4. Probably one of the smallest RF lenses ever.

  8. *Summarit 35/2.5 – A tad better than the ZM 35/2.8 colorwise and with similarly great bokeh. The only downside is lack of speed and the price.

  9. Summicron 35/2 ASPH – Mixed reviews but is probably awesome, if one can afford it. Sharper WO than the ZM, but lesser so stopped down.

  10. Summilux 35/1.4 ASPH – Expensive as hell but good as hell, although sharpness doesn't seem uniform across the frame even stopped down (wavey MTF). The FLE version is sharper WO but gives harsher bokeh and perhaps even more wavey MTF.


I probably forgot a lens or two. There are Canon RF 35:s that I know nothing about.
...Show more

I'm embarrassed to admit that I've bought and sold half of those 35s on your list over the last few years, and your opinions are about right on the money. The only thing I might add is that I'm betting the two ZM 35s will show color shift on the A7r. The Summicron 35/2 ASPH is probably my overall favorite (it also has a bit of a wavy field, but not like the Summilux,) and, if it weren't for the RX1's lens, it probably still would be.

Two more lenses to mention are the Contax G 35 and 35 Summicron IV, which are actually VERY similar in lens design, mtf and overall performance. They aren't going to be as sharp wide open or corner to corner as the 35/2 ASPH, but they have a nice look, and they exhibit less color shift than the ASPH on NEX cameras (35/1.4 Nokton is also void of color shift on NEX.)

All of this being said, I'd probably just buy the FE 35/2.8, if I were buying an A7/R.




Oct 18, 2013 at 02:30 PM
uhoh7
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p.12 #2 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


I have:
all 3 CVs 1.2 is v1
SLR: FD 35/2 radioactive.
Nikon PC 35/2.8
Sony alpha 35/1.8

It'll be fun to get to know them all over again.

The CV 35/1.2 is going to be unreal for indoors.



Oct 18, 2013 at 02:37 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.12 #3 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


douglasf13 wrote:
I'm embarrassed to admit that I've bought and sold half of those 35s on your list over the last few years, and your opinions are about right on the money. The only thing I might add is that I'm betting the two ZM 35s will show color shift on the A7r. The Summicron 35/2 ASPH is probably my overall favorite (it also has a bit of a wavy field, but not like the Summilux,) and, if it weren't for the RX1's lens, it probably still would be.

Two more lenses to mention are the Contax G 35 and 35
...Show more

One other rangefinder lens that I found exceptional except for a little CA wide open was the older CV 35 1.7 Ultron.



Oct 18, 2013 at 02:45 PM
genji
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p.12 #4 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Makten wrote:
I probably forgot a lens or two. There are Canon RF 35:s that I know nothing about.


CV Ultron 35/1.7
M-Hexanon 35/2

Both of these have been fine for me on the NEX-5N (but I never shoot at infinity).



Oct 18, 2013 at 02:55 PM
douglasf13
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p.12 #5 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


uhoh7 wrote:
I have:
all 3 CVs 1.2 is v1
SLR: FD 35/2 radioactive.
Nikon PC 35/2.8
Sony alpha 35/1.8

It'll be fun to get to know them all over again.

The CV 35/1.2 is going to be unreal for indoors.


That is one of the few things tempting me about the A7/R. It'd be fun to glue the 35/1.2 to it for super lowlight stuff. That would be great for shooting my wife's band's nightclub gigs, but I'm not sure that it'd be all worth it for just an extra stop and a half over my RX1.



Oct 18, 2013 at 03:04 PM
sebboh
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p.12 #6 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


i actually really liked the 35 lux pre-asph on my NEX-7. it's tiny and showed no detectable color shift on the 7.




Oct 18, 2013 at 03:07 PM
douglasf13
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p.12 #7 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


sebboh wrote:
i actually really liked the 35 lux pre-asph on my NEX-7. it's tiny and showed no detectable color shift on the 7.



Yeah, the Nokton 35/1.4, which has a bit of a similar design, showed the least amount of color shift of any 35mm I tried on NEX. It is a great people lens. I believe that it does show some shift on the M9, though.



Oct 18, 2013 at 03:09 PM
ebrandon
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p.12 #8 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Some more 35's I plan to test on the A7R

- CY Zeiss 35mm f1.4
- CY Zeiss 35mm f2.8 (should be a great walking around outdoors lens. Tiny, sharp, contrasty, great colors)
- CG Zeiss 35mm f2 (I dont' know what people have against this lens. My copy is stellar on APS-C)
- Perar 35mm f3.5 m mount - this is a wild card
- Canon FD 35mm f2 concave
- Sigma 35mm f1.4 in Nikon mount
- Canon 35mm f1.4L on metabones with AF!

Making this list reminds me of why I'm excited to get this camera. Will I get better results than the Sigma 35mm on my D600? Probably not, but it sure will be fun trying out all those lenses.



Oct 18, 2013 at 05:55 PM
Nanh
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p.12 #9 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Taylor Sherman wrote:
The CV35/1.2, at least on the Nex-7, causes a color cast over the entire frame at f/1.4 and f/1.2.

With a fixed white balance, you can see the frame get distinctively pink as you change the aperture from f/2 to f/1.4.

This is probably the same reason as the corner color-cast caused by wider lenses, just because of the exit pupil size being very large at f/1.2. So, we'll see how it does on FF. (I haven't heard anyone mention something similar on the M9 or 240).

No, I think it's just very bad LoCA. That's why I sold it(also because it's damn heavy). I now use a less sharp and much smaler lens without the color fringing: Canon 35 1.5 LTM



Oct 18, 2013 at 06:22 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.12 #10 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


ebrandon wrote:
Making this list reminds me of why I'm excited to get this camera. Will I get better results than the Sigma 35mm on my D600?


I'd *love* to see a good set of comparison shots between the Siggy 35/1.4DG, the native Sony Zeiss 35/2.8, and a laundry list of 35mm alt-glass.

If the a7r is like the D800, we should expect to need some stellar glass on it to make it shine as best it can. The Sigma delivers well on the D800. Some lesser lenses I've tried ... meh. I'd be happy if the FE35/2.8 can roughly compete aperture for aperture with the Siggy.



Oct 18, 2013 at 06:45 PM
uhoh7
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p.12 #11 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


douglasf13 wrote:
Yeah, the Nokton 35/1.4, which has a bit of a similar design, showed the least amount of color shift of any 35mm I tried on NEX. It is a great people lens. I believe that it does show some shift on the M9, though.


"people lens" i love it---true. You have gotten past the distortion. Also, the colors are totally dif v cv 35/1.2. Each a unique customer.

I can't think of another fast lens so small as the nokton.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5180/5491463494_b0a7630621_b.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5070/5560455258_6bab7a13f7_b.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6019/6349016343_0793ecc33f_b.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5014/5427340766_d50f48827c_b.jpg

But you know what I'm most excited about? The 50's.

Now I have in RF:
50cron
CV 1.1
1938 zeiss sonnar 1.5
1953 nikon 1.4
Canon 1.8. 1.4, 1.2
and a russian f/2 sonnar.

and another 5 or so in SLR



Oct 18, 2013 at 07:17 PM
iskraII
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p.12 #12 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


douglasf13 wrote:
Can you post a link to that? Thanks!


here is the link with A7+G28
http://forum.xitek.com/thread-1222771-3-1-1.html

photos downloaded from the webpage.












Oct 18, 2013 at 07:38 PM
michael49
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p.12 #13 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


Well, I just purchased the CV 40mm f/2 Ultron (Canon mount) for use on my A7 - I'm hoping it will be a nice match - tiny, good optical performance and plenty fast for me at f/2. 40mm is probably my favorite walk around FL.


Oct 18, 2013 at 08:04 PM
douglasf13
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p.12 #14 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


iskraII wrote:
here is the link with A7+G28
http://forum.xitek.com/thread-1222771-3-1-1.html

photos downloaded from the webpage.


That's certainly a good sign. We'll have to see how it does at infinity, where color shift can be most problematic.



Oct 18, 2013 at 08:10 PM
Edgar M
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p.12 #15 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


michael49 wrote:
Well, I just purchased the CV 40mm f/2 Ultron (Canon mount) for use on my A7 - I'm hoping it will be a nice match - tiny, good optical performance and plenty fast for me at f/2. 40mm is probably my favorite walk around FL.


Correct me if I'm wrong...but a canon mount will be using a much thicker adapter, compared to an M-mount or other RF lens/mount. The thinnest mounts will be that of RF's.

If you want "tiny," then I'd cancel my order asap and order an m-mount.



Oct 18, 2013 at 08:11 PM
douglasf13
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p.12 #16 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


uhoh7 wrote:
"people lens" i love it---true. You have gotten past the distortion. Also, the colors are totally dif v cv 35/1.2. Each a unique customer.



I often find that some distortion on 35mm lenses is a good thing when shooting people. Of course, not if their face is in the center of the frame, which it usually isn't, but, as their faces/heads go further out from center, some barrel distortion can make people look better. I rarely correct the distortion of my RX1 on people shots.



Oct 18, 2013 at 08:14 PM
LightShow
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p.12 #17 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


wfrank wrote:
A bit of hope is either that the Australian Sony team got it wrong so that the A7 also have it, or, the lesser pixelated A7 dont mind steep angels too much.

Makten wrote:
Yeah, very much of the information on these cameras seems to come from that single video, and is nowhere else to be found. Never, ever trust a salesperson!

Edit: I don't care about mild color casts either, but COF and smearing (perhaps the same thing?) means no-go. 35 mm lenses should be OK if the sensor is reasonably well designed for far-back exit pupil lenses. The shortest I'll want to get is ~24 mm, which could be worse.

I posted this in the "Our prayers have been answered" thread...

http://www.imaging-resource.com/camera-reviews/sony/a7r/
Sensor.
The Sony A7R is based around a 36.4-megapixel, RGB Bayer-filtered, Exmor CMOS image sensor with approximately the same dimensions as a 35mm film frame. Total resolution is 36.8-megapixels. Sensor size is 35.9 x 24.0mm.

Unlike that of its sibling, the A7, the Sony A7R's sensor doesn't include on-chip phase detection autofocus pixels. However, it does include a low-pass filter-free design for maximum resolution (at the expense of possible moiré), and it features gapless microlenses whose position has been tuned to avoid image quality issues with light arriving at high incidence angles, as in the corners of the image.

According to Sony, the
...Show more
Nothing was said about micro lenses with the A7.

Makten wrote:
I'm mostly interested in a really good 35 mm lens for the α7 or α7r, but I have a hard time choosing what to aim at, regardless of price. Here's a little list I compiled, where the * indicates that I've tried it myself:


  1. *ZM 35/2.8 – Fantastic lens with great 3D and smooth bokeh, but a tad slow.

  2. ZM 35/2 – Seems great and affordable, but gives occasionally harsh bokeh wide open. Optimized for non-closeup work.

  3. CV 35/2.5 – Small and sharp, but only in the middle and with great bokeh. Slow max speed.

  4. *CV 35/1.4 – Acceptable, old school rendering and sharp
  5. CV 40/1.4 – Probably much like the above, but seems better overall and with less COF.

  6. *CV 35/1.2 – Best bokeh around, but hazy wide open and a bit bulky. Very allround characteristics though.

  7. *Summicron-C 40/2 – Old school rendering with very nice "glow" wide open (totally different from the 35/1.2 WO haze) and very sharp stopped down from f/2.8, but gives almost as bad COF as the CV 35/1.4. Probably one of the smallest RF lenses ever.

  8. *Summarit 35/2.5 – A tad better than the ZM 35/2.8 colorwise and with similarly great bokeh. The only downside is lack of speed and the price.

  9. Summicron 35/2 ASPH – Mixed reviews but is probably awesome, if one can afford it. Sharper WO than the ZM, but lesser so stopped down.

  10. Summilux 35/1.4 ASPH – Expensive as hell but good as hell, although sharpness doesn't seem uniform across the frame even stopped down (wavey MTF). The FLE version is sharper WO but gives harsher bokeh and perhaps even more wavey MTF.


I probably forgot a lens or two. There are Canon RF 35:s that I know nothing about.
...Show more
I have a few Canon lenses, the 35/2.8(second from the left) is quite sharp on my NEX-7, I had some smearing with it, but it turned out that there was something on the rear element, it took 4 attempts at cleaning to cure it, colors are vivid, and it's sharp, it should be interesting on the A7R, the black Canon 35/2 is supposed to be very good, but I have no clue how it will do on my 7 or the 7R.


2 lenses I'm really looking forward to using are my FD SSC 24/1.4 Aspherical and 35/2.8 Tilt/Shift, the anticipation is killing me.






Oct 18, 2013 at 08:17 PM
uscmatt99
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p.12 #18 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


michaelwatkins wrote:
I'd *love* to see a good set of comparison shots between the Siggy 35/1.4DG, the native Sony Zeiss 35/2.8, and a laundry list of 35mm alt-glass.

If the a7r is like the D800, we should expect to need some stellar glass on it to make it shine as best it can. The Sigma delivers well on the D800. Some lesser lenses I've tried ... meh. I'd be happy if the FE35/2.8 can roughly compete aperture for aperture with the Siggy.


This will be fun for me, I have a CV 35/1.2 vII, ZM 35/2.8, ZF.2 35/1.4, CV 40/2 SL-II. Heck, I might just slap my old Nikon 35-70/2.8 AF-D on for good measure at 35mm. Someone will have to loan me the new FE35/2.8, my wife is already preparing to strangle me regarding the A7r preorder



Oct 18, 2013 at 08:25 PM
uscmatt99
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p.12 #19 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


douglasf13 wrote:
I often find that some distortion on 35mm lenses is a good thing when shooting people. Of course, not if their face is in the center of the frame, which it usually isn't, but, as their faces/heads go further out from center, some barrel distortion can make people look better. I rarely correct the distortion of my RX1 on people shots.


I agree, I pretty much never correct barrel distortion on my people shots. Pyramidal heads are unbecoming.



Oct 18, 2013 at 08:26 PM
ISO1600
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p.12 #20 · A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses


35's I've had:
Voigt 35/1.4 MC (loved it)
Canon 35/2 LTM (x5 or 6?- LOVED it)
Canon 35/2 IS USM (fantastic, but huge)
Nikon 35/1.4 AIS (x2- loved it)
Nikon 35/2 AIS (x2- good, not fantastic)
Minolta 40/2 M-Rokkor (CL and CLE versions- ++++!!!!!)

I've always had a think for Nikkors. The 1.4 AIS will always be one of my favorite lenses, but they have gotten so overblown on the market since the D700.
I loved the CV 35/1.4, it was a wonderful little lens. I am hoping it kills on the A7(R).
I loved the MRokkors, they are microscopic and have a terrific look to them.
I LOVE the Canon 35/2 LTM (CanCron). It has so much character.

I love a lens with tons of character and a unique look. The 1.4 Nokton, the M-Rokkors, and the Canon LTM are not "GOOD" in a clinical sense- especially when stacked up against the likes of Summicrons and Summiluxes, but.... I can afford the Cosinas and Canons. And they look great too.
I was planning on grabbing an ultra-cheap 35/2.5 Skopar for the A7, but I'm too worried it'll be boring and clinical. It looks like it doesn't have nearly as much personality as the others.



Oct 18, 2013 at 09:16 PM
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