p.82 #2 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Mikael Risedal wrote:
Hmm
people start to understand what i meant and show years back in my old comparison of a d90 and a 5dmk2 and later on with d800 and 5dmk3, the color depth and DR are amazing from the sony sensor due short analog path way , raw wise ADC at the sensor edge, and low read out noise, at Dpreview I was called a fool and could not exposure properly etc etc
wellcome to 14 stops DR and what YOU can do with it , regarding exposure etc
Actually, I wanted to post "No s**t, Sherlock " but in the last minute, I decided NOT to . So, please disregard the first part of the previous sentence then.
But as far as exposure concerned though, as long as you expose correctly or a tad to the right, in most cases, you (almost) cannot tell the difference under real life shooting conditions. The difference between the 22MP and 36MP is more palpable to me.
p.82 #3 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Rickuz wrote:
There is a ridiculous amount of Canon-extremists on CR!.. It's not even funny.
Some of them (like "Neuroanatomist") is there to defend Canon 24 hours a day.. Literally.
Usually in response to anti Canon-extremists. You reap what you sow.
p.82 #4 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
AGeoJO wrote:
Actually, I wanted to post "No s**t, Sherlock " but in the last minute, I decided NOT to . So, please disregard the first part of the previous sentence then.
But as far as exposure concerned though, as long as you expose correctly or a tad to the right, in most cases, you (almost) cannot tell the difference under real life shooting conditions. The difference between the 22MP and 36MP is more palpable to me.
Too many chasing rainbows. I hope that those complaining about the poor quality of images from Canon cameras will refund their clients for all the sub standard work they have produced. Maybe it's not pros who are complaining- or their clients.
There is no doubt that the Sony produces some excellent quality images at a reasonable price
p.82 #5 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I don't really shoot beyond ISO6400, but here is the comparison between a7r and 5d3. Again, processed in Lightroom. No noise reduction other than the +25 color default.
I downsized the a7r to match 5d3 native output. When I upsize the 5d3 to a7r, obviously the Canon just can't match the details to Sony's native output.
Canon 5d3 (please see my flickr for full resolution):
p.82 #6 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Thanks, on my phone that looks close with a slight edge to the canon. Will be using a 6d for the like light stuff soon.. will have a proper look later thanks again.
p.82 #8 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
RobDickinson wrote:
Thanks, on my phone that looks close with a slight edge to the canon. Will be using a 6d for the like light stuff soon.. will have a proper look later thanks again.
No problem. Honestly, it is real close, and I could use either of the outputs with no issues.
p.82 #10 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
AGeoJO wrote:
Your previous comparison was the one that enticed a few Canon sensor "bashers" to come out of the woodwork .
That wasn't my intention. I had to see for myself what the files looked like and how much latitude I can get processing them. I wouldn't give up either cameras for the other. It is just too bad I cannot get a hybrid.
p.82 #11 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
AGeoJO wrote:
Your previous comparison was the one that enticed a few Canon sensor "bashers" to come out of the woodwork .
I have no problems with Canon's sensor performance at higher ISO levels. It's all good.
But then again, I don't really care about high ISO. 90% of my photos are at ISO 100. Hence the sensor "bashing".
p.82 #12 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
HEMIROTT wrote:
That wasn't my intention. I had to see for myself what the files looked like and how much latitude I can get processing them. I wouldn't give up either cameras for the other. It is just too bad I cannot get a hybrid.
The hybrid might be coming eventually This is why I wouldn't give up my Canon, the Sony can't do things that my Canon can do. For me the trade-off is in Canon's favour, but I totally see how many are the opposite and would gladly give up the responsiveness and speed for the DR and MP.
p.82 #13 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
chez wrote:
As it sits here, I am really pleasantly surprised with what the Sony is delivering at high ISO and just amazed at it's base ISO capabilities.
+1, I don't expect A7r hi-iso sample can be this good. Matter of fact, I like its WB colors and textures better at 6400 iso range. 1Dx and 6D should be better in higher iso range and that what I saw in some test.
p.82 #14 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
HEMIROTT wrote:
That wasn't my intention. I had to see for myself what the files looked like and how much latitude I can get processing them. I wouldn't give up either cameras for the other. It is just too bad I cannot get a hybrid.
Not to worry . Seek and you will find - a torture test will bring out the not so good characteristics of the current Canon sensors. Seriously, a lot of folks on the internet fora know about that already. Most photographers out there however that take properly exposed shots, they are perfectly happy with the results. I have seen stunning images taken with lowly Canon, like a Rebel, and admittedly also Nikon low end cameras with kit lenses. Ultimately, it is the photographer's skill in capturing and processing that counts and doing so in more than one way.
p.82 #15 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
chez wrote:
I'd love to see the same comparison with the 5d3 uprezzed to the Sony mpix...after all that is one of the reasons of using the Sony, the extra pixels.
As it sits here, I am really pleasantly surprised with what the Sony is delivering at high ISO and just amazed at it's base ISO capabilities.
Here you go.
Canon 5d3 (please see my flickr for full resolution):
p.82 #16 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
AGeoJO wrote:
Not to worry . Seek and you will find - a torture test will bring out the not so good characteristics of the current Canon sensors. Seriously, a lot of folks on the internet fora know about that already. Most photographers out there however that take properly exposed shots, they are perfectly happy with the results. I have seen stunning images taken with lowly Canon, like a Rebel, and admittedly also Nikon low end cameras with kit lenses. Ultimately, it is the photographer's skill in capturing and processing that counts and doing so in more than one way.
When the dynamic range of the scene exceeds the sensors abilities, I don't care how you expose the scene, you'll either get blown highlights or dark muddy shadows. The more capable the sensor, the more you can salvage the blown highlights or the muddy shadows. Proper exposure has squat to do with the sensors dynamic range abilities.
p.82 #18 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Yes, the details are retained at higher ISO from what I can tell. It allows me to do the noise reduction how I see fit. For what I shoot, I don't see any issues with higher ISO. If you like to auto focus, then that is another story. Fortunately, manual focus isn't too shabby with the a7r.
p.82 #19 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
chez wrote:
When the dynamic range of the scene exceeds the sensors abilities, I don't care how you expose the scene, you'll either get blown highlights or dark muddy shadows. The more capable the sensor, the more you can salvage the blown highlights or the muddy shadows. Proper exposure has squat to do with the sensors dynamic range abilities.
I lifted shadows from files taken with an Exmor sensor camera and frankly, I didn't like the results. They looked flat like half baked HDR images. So, I ended up putting in darker tones back to make it look "normal" again. I did shadow lifting at approximately the same amount from files of the 5D Mark III and I didn't see any ill effect. And yes, the images look pretty much the same. I am not denying the presence of better shadow details of the Exmor files but I didn't see the advantage of that in my workflow. Again, under real life shooting conditions. BTW, I got the impression that the files of the 5D Mark III can tolerate highlights a tad better than those of the other camera. Take your poison.
p.82 #20 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
KiboOst wrote:
From my a7r review :
I did test this several times, with 70-200LII (IS off) on tripod, at 200mm focusing on a small piece full of details. With shutter times of 1/30s, 1/15s, 1/8s, 0.5s, 1sec, I couldn’t discern any vibration there. Gear was mounted with arca plate on the Metabones, on a Markins M20 + Gitzo GT5530S (unweighted).
.
You are implying that since there is no sharpness that is apparent when varying the shutter speed that therefore the A7R is not leaving some sharpness on the table? You are inferring a lot that you have not proven. Since the A7R cannot do the test of with electronic first curtain Vs without electronic first curtain it is impossible to evaluate how much improvement can be had with EFCS. The Sony has a relatively loud shutter, (especially since there is nor mirror slap) but it is unknown how the shutter design impacts the camera vibration during the shot. With greater resolution possible (more MP) and a very high quality lens, it is only logical to assume even greater resolution could be had if the A7R had EFCS.
I linked to my test to show that the additional detail available from EFCS is rather small, but it certainly is visible. With higher resolution sensor and lens the potential improvement it is safe to assume even greater improvement is possible.
Mike K
" but in the last minute, I decided NOT to 
. So, please disregard the first part of the previous sentence then.
. Seek and you will find - a torture test will bring out the not so good characteristics of the current Canon sensors. Seriously, a lot of folks on the internet fora know about that already. Most photographers out there however that take properly exposed shots, they are perfectly happy with the results. I have seen stunning images taken with lowly Canon, like a Rebel, and admittedly also Nikon low end cameras with kit lenses. Ultimately, it is the photographer's skill in capturing and processing that counts and doing so in more than one way.