p.37 #1 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
artd wrote: The point is that "bad" is relative. If you take other mirrorless cameras as a baseline, the A7r is not "bad" at all, it is in line with expectations.
I'm not saying there can't or won't be innovations in battery technology. But again, improvements to battery technology will be just as applicable to DSLRs as they will be to mirrorless cameras, and so mirrorless cameras are always going to be worse in battery life because the fact is they have to power the EVF function and DSLRs don't. That's just the trade off.
With regard to the bemoaning, sure, I get it. But, keep in mind that those who were bemoaning Canon's sensor technology were doing so because a better technology existed and was actually in use. Show me any mirrorless camera that exists today which can get 1,000 shots on a charge, and I'll jump on the Sony battery bemoaning train along with anyone else. ...Show more →
I pointed out the irony earlier, but here you have stated it again. Bad is relative. Keep that in mind when people bash the Canon gear With anything there are thresholds that have limited returns beyond that level. A DSLR getting 4,000 shots would likely be of limited benefit to all but the diehard event shooters. But, I would say there is a huge difference between 300 and 1000+. The battery grip is a very poor way to add extra batteries. Much easier to just carry 2-3 spares in your pocket instead of a giant grip.
With respect to why you should care if mirrorless/A7 bodies make the mainstream market, they need to in order to continue developing the systems. Sony has a history of just throwing out numerous ideas and seeing what works. They have a huge company that can apparently afford to try different directions. Seems like the NEX line is doing ok for them, and the A7 line should likely do ok as well. If it doesn't for some reason, they will gradually start spending less money on it and the lens makers will move to other systems.
It was obviously clear from the first rumours that the A7(r) would have fantastic IQ, it is using a proven sensor from the D800 with only a few modifications to the filters. The success of the camera will rely on the processing, ergonomics and other features, and of course the size of the market beyond the Canon TS/MF alt lens crowd. Sony has much better LV than Nikon, so that isn't likely going to be an issue.
p.37 #2 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I am not a bemoaner. Why? I am an adult who makes reasoned choices. If I buy anything & then moan about its documented idiocyncracies more fool me. I am an even bigger fool if I buy before the market has tested said item & then moan when faults come to light or there is a better alternative in the market.
Buy whatever you like but remember no one is forcing you to buy. We do not live in a perfect world much as there are people out there trying to sell one.
Life is too short as I am fast coming to realise now that I am the wrong end of 60.
My battery is running low.
p.37 #3 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
jctriguy wrote:
I pointed out the irony earlier, but here you have stated it again. Bad is relative. Keep that in mind when people bash the Canon gear With anything there are thresholds that have limited returns beyond that level. A DSLR getting 4,000 shots would likely be of limited benefit to all but the diehard event shooters. But, I would say there is a huge difference between 300 and 1000+. The battery grip is a very poor way to add extra batteries. Much easier to just carry 2-3 spares in your pocket instead of a giant grip.
Yes, but you've seemed to miss my point that when people started complaining about Canon's sensors, they did so because another manufacturer had implemented a better technology. People weren't complaining about Canon's sensors when they were still in line with the industry standard. (But that was so long ago, we've probably forgotten those days )
People can complain at present about the battery life on the A7r, but that doesn't change the fact that it is in line with the current technology. (And keep in mind that battery technology is a much more mature field than sensor technology. If anyone found a way to double battery capacity, you'd be hearing about it in a lot of other places first besides a camera forum).
Now about this grip..."giant"? Really? Do we need to go back to hyperboles? In the history of vertical grips, I don't see how this one is in any way too big. And even with the grip attached it is still not going to be bigger than DSLR. Some people may find it easier to carry spare batteries, sure, but it depends on the scenario. I know for a fact when I'm working off a tripod, I'd much rather have a grip.
p.37 #4 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
artd wrote:
Now about this grip..."giant"? Really? Do we need to go back to hyperboles? In the history of vertical grips, I don't see how this one is in any way too big. And even with the grip attached it is still not going to be bigger than DSLR. Some people may find it easier to carry spare batteries, sure, but it depends on the scenario. I know for a fact when I'm working off a tripod, I'd much rather have a grip.
What do you mean by "won't be bigger than a DSLR"? If will certainly be taller than a DSLR. I don't think you can even remotely claim that the A7 with grip is now a 'small FF camera'.
p.37 #5 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
jctriguy wrote:
What do you mean by "won't be bigger than a DSLR"? If will certainly be taller than a DSLR. I don't think you can even remotely claim that the A7 with grip is now a 'small FF camera'.
No...but if you do want small, just remove the grip and you got it. Options are our friend here.
p.37 #6 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
The A7R grip is 65% of the weight and 56% of the height of the camera if you measure to the top of the EVF bump and 75% if you measure to the shoulder of the camera. Relatively it's huge. By far the biggest/heaviest grip to camera ratio I've ever seen.
p.37 #7 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I'm struck by how much this photo seems to show a continuation of the Contax/Zeiss models and optics, but updated to the AF era. Not many have mentioned this in all the discussion.
I'm warming up to this model. Maybe it won't be perfect for every subject, but it's a big step up in IQ for right now. We'll just have to see what the price tag is with a couple Zeiss FE lenses, the battery grip, and Canon adapter. Grrrrrr. . . I know that's not the answer I want to hear!
p.37 #8 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Pixel Perfect wrote:
The A7R grip is 65% of the weight and 56% of the height of the camera if you measure to the top of the EVF bump and 75% if you measure to the shoulder of the camera. Relatively it's huge. By far the biggest/heaviest grip to camera ratio I've ever seen.
The Sony with grip is clearly taller than 5D III by more than 30mm, but is much narrower and still 170g lighter.
But the real question that needs to be answered is how does the grip feel in your hands. Afterall, the grip serves more than just a holder for more batteries. One review I read claims the grip is the most comfortable optional grip of any camera they tried, which sounds impressive.
p.37 #10 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
So now the grip is the big issue of the camera........you guys need to get out shooting! It is great that you don't have anything else in this camera to complain about (other than the batteries )
p.37 #11 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Jim -- If they really are going to be serious about this line, and treat it with the respect earned by the Contax line, you never know -- those are big shoes, and might have enough room for a pancake someday.
p.37 #12 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
retrofocus wrote:
So now the grip is the big issue of the camera........you guys need to get out shooting! It is great that you don't have anything else in this camera to complain about (other than the batteries )
p.37 #13 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I wanted more DR back with the 5D, which was a marked improvement over the 10D and 20D I had prior to it. I've been pretty consistent about that....
artd wrote:
Yes, but you've seemed to miss my point that when people started complaining about Canon's sensors, they did so because another manufacturer had implemented a better technology. People weren't complaining about Canon's sensors when they were still in line with the industry standard. (But that was so long ago, we've probably forgotten those days )
People can complain at present about the battery life on the A7r, but that doesn't change the fact that it is in line with the current technology. (And keep in mind that battery technology is a much more mature field than sensor technology. If anyone found a way to double battery capacity, you'd be hearing about it in a lot of other places first besides a camera forum).
Now about this grip..."giant"? Really? Do we need to go back to hyperboles? In the history of vertical grips, I don't see how this one is in any way too big. And even with the grip attached it is still not going to be bigger than DSLR. Some people may find it easier to carry spare batteries, sure, but it depends on the scenario. I know for a fact when I'm working off a tripod, I'd much rather have a grip. ...Show more →
p.37 #17 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
chez wrote:
why?
Because I'd buy it to be compact - both in the bag and my hand. I know using a pouch seems to defeat that purpose but I don't think I'd enjoy using it with the grip.
p.37 #18 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Paul Mo wrote:
Because I'd buy it to be compact - both in the bag and my hand. I know using a pouch seems to defeat that purpose but I don't think I'd enjoy using it with the grip.
I have a 5D2 which I use without grip at least 80% of the time...but when I am going to be shooting a lot of vertical oriented photos, the grip goes on. Yes, it adds bulk and weight, but it sure helps with the ergonomics for vertical shooting. I see the same with the Sony. If I plan on shooting a lot of verticals, I'll most likely use the grip just for the ergonomics.
p.37 #19 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
retrofocus wrote:
So now the grip is the big issue of the camera........you guys need to get out shooting! It is great that you don't have anything else in this camera to complain about (other than the batteries )
That we know of yet.
With my 5D III I only complain about the lack of EC in M mode with Auto ISO, so they must be making even better cameras I guess
See unlike you guys, even though I know the Canon sensors aren't the ducks guts, I just get on with shooting rather than flog the dead horse. I'm not going to change a whole system for a sensor, just to find the system falls short in different areas. For all the hate plenty of you guys haven't changed systems either, but just keep harping on about how bad Canon is at this and that. While you are quick to tell us to just work around the issues, you clearly don't take your own advice when it comes to Canon. 99.9% of work around the minor limitations in our crappy Canon cameras and somehow get by in life.
p.37 #20 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Things are not too complicate in life until i visit this forum. These tideous nonsense can't make your day, can't they. But im sure it does make your head hurt. It just another tool, c'mon gentlement.
But, keep in mind that those who were bemoaning Canon's sensor technology were doing so because a better technology existed and was actually in use. Show me any mirrorless camera that exists today which can get 1,000 shots on a charge, and I'll jump on the Sony battery bemoaning train along with anyone else. 
