p.14 #1 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Bones74 wrote:
What on earth was all the fuss about getting 45+ AF pts into a 5D2 replacement? That's just about all that a gazillion forum threads went on about ad infinitum. Then last year Canon gave everyone what they'd been screaming for since 2009. Once the AF was sorted suddenly the mp count and dynamic range was not good enough (Now it's the size!!!). Canon have certainly not made the advancements Sony and Nikon have in the sensor dept., but as an overall package the 5D3 is what thousands of Canon photogs were screaming for.
Sure most photography is as you described. I cant argue that, but for those who need a camera that does just about everything in one package these little mirrorless EVF bodies are not it. Sports, action, photo journalism (I don't think an A7 is going to cut in the middle of a riot or in a warzone) and wildlife are also very big business. If I could justify it, I'd love to buy an A7R in addition to my Canon bodies, just for landscape, but I wouldn't replace either one with it. Out in the field with an A7R/metabones attached to a 500mm f/4 = bad day, but with a 5D3 it would be a very good day
I was shooting alongside a guy last week who was using a D800 on a Sigmonster. Do his images look any better than my 1DX/5D3 shots on flickr? No, is the short answer. Not...at...all ...Show more →
People were talking about more DR before the 5D3 came out. Anyway, the A7R would hardly replace the 5D3 since it won't give you the AF, fps, raw video, etc. but man does it fill a GAPING and TERRIBLE whole that Canon has let appear due to too much MBA types doing their thing and not enough letting the engineers drive things.
p.14 #2 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
"How good is Sony's a7R at noise mitigation?"
jcolwell wrote:
Hi bwana999, welcome to FM.
That's what we're waiting to see. Have some patience, and then we'll all know.
EB-1 wrote:
Better than the 60D I hope.
EBH
jcolwell wrote:
(used in lieu of the bazinga! emoticon, which is sadly absent)
EB-1 wrote:
I thought banana 9999 was a 60d user.
EBH
Woah! It looks like we're pulling into Miscommunication Junction*.
My use of the sacred emoticon, and invocation of the 'under construction' bazinga! emoticon were in support of your own reply, "Better than the 60D I hope.".
We're not always on the same page, but in this case, I think we're on the same line.
Maybe, I should have used the pending "being sarcastic" emoticon - whatever that is.
p.14 #3 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Paul Mo wrote:
No doubt. But are those meetings in the boardroom or on the golf course?
The very fact that they had to have urgent meetings over it implies just shows how out of tune they still are.
Although OTOH at it shows they are in tune enough now to realize they need to have some urgent meetings. Baby steps I guess.
And this time it matters just a little less since at least we have some option to get more DR and such now.
p.14 #6 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
skibum5 wrote:
People were talking about more DR before the 5D3 came out. Anyway, the A7R would hardly replace the 5D3 since it won't give you the AF, fps, raw video, etc. but man does it fill a GAPING and TERRIBLE whole that Canon has let appear due to too much MBA types doing their thing and not enough letting the engineers drive things.
Even I am personally against the route Canon currently takes (which is supporting video and making cameras mostly for event/wedding photographers or photo journalists) I believe that this is the most profitable market in photography. Again, I don't like this, but this is the sad reality. This is why cameras like the 5D MkIII or bulky 1D series cameras (those to a much lower extent) are being bought. So from a MBA point of view, Canon does it right in the presence.
But looking in the future.....here the light seems to get darker on Canon's prospects if they continue in this path exclusively. Because innovation is lacking (what you refer to as engineering). Do we believe that about 40 MP sensors are the end? No way. Resolution will get bigger and better, sensors likely will also grow in size - continuously. Good thing is that Canon seems to have realized this by vesting into the medium format now. This will also affect the most profitable market which I named above. Time will tell if Canon manages its way out of the sinkhole in regard to sensor technology development where it currently sits in. I certainly hope so but I am not certain.
If true I'm not sure what to think. It doesn't appeal to me on any level whatsoever. The biggest issue is the lowly 16MP of the D4 sensor, which gives us nothing the 1D X sensor doesn't already give us. It's also heavy, and IMO butt ugly even compared to the A7's, not that would stop me buying one if it were amazing. But it'll also be a Nikon F mount and since it's not mirrorless, who cares, if we can't adapt our glass to it!
p.14 #9 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Pixel Perfect wrote:
One thing is if Canon can deliver a competitive sensor they have most of the rest of the elements in place and any new DSLRs like a 5D IV or 1D XI would be very successful.
Exactly. Anyone thinking that a 1DX2 with a high MP sensor, high FPS, and current or even better AF is not going to be successful is delusional. It would offer a no compromise set of features for anything you wanted to do. The speed and processing power for sports combined with the high MP/DR for landscape/architecture. They could price it at $10K and not be able to keep them in stock for a very long time.
p.14 #10 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
ggreene wrote:
Anyone thinking that a 1DX2 with a high MP sensor, high FPS, and current or even better AF is not going to be successful is delusional. It would offer a no compromise set of features for anything you wanted to do. The speed and processing power for sports combined with the high MP/DR for landscape/architecture. They could price it at $10K and not be able to keep them in stock for a very long time.
p.14 #12 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
jctriguy wrote:
While many photography subjects and styles can be done without AF, there is a reason that AF is such a key feature on so many cameras. Why were so many complaining about the 'crippled' AF in the 5Dii and now 6D?
First off, I'm not knocking the new Sony - it will have to stand on its merits by itself.
What's interesting is that the 5DII was shagged pretty badly for five years for its inferior AF. Until very recently, AF was very important. Sony seems to have come along with a cheaper and lighter version of the Nikon D800 series. The Nikon bodies are not AF monsters, the A7's are less so.
DSLR lenses are optimized for a larger register distance (than would be on a mirror-less). The farther the lens is from the sensor plane, the easier it is to keep the rays perpendicular to the sensor at the edges/corners. Lens design is always a bundle of compromises - will existing lenses be too much of a compromise? I don't know, but I'd be thinking about this.
If a lens is mounted at a distance greater than its register distance, infinity focus is lost. It would seem that when a lens is mounted closer than its register distance some near distance focus is lost. Is this important - I don't know, but it might be for landscapes with a TS lens (getting the extreme foreground in focus is one of the reasons I use a TS).
At Photozone, the reported barrel distortion of many of the M43 lenses is hideous (when non-corrected in camera). The M43 mirror-less lenses are very close to the sensor.
Maybe Sony will have to develop their own lenses to make this work.
p.14 #13 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
skibum5 wrote:
People were talking about more DR before the 5D3 came out. Anyway, the A7R would hardly replace the 5D3 since it won't give you the AF, fps, raw video, etc. but man does it fill a GAPING and TERRIBLE whole that Canon has let appear due to too much MBA types doing their thing and not enough letting the engineers drive things.
I've worked in high tech companies my entire career of 35 years and if we let the engineers drive the companies...they'd all be very techy and broke. Sometimes cool things just don't make financial sense...and that is where the MBA's come in...to make money.
p.14 #14 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I think a lot of the people are missing the point to anyone doing studio work, advertising photography, or architecture the A7R is a game changer. To get a high megapixel body and do it for a price that is very reasonable compared to anything Canon offers means my next upgrade is a Sony body. I have absolutely no hope that Canon would offer 36mp for less than 5K, and I really don't care about autofocus performance at all for what I would need this body for.
p.14 #15 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I think the Sony offerings are interesting and innovative and it will be interesting to see where this leads. That said, just about everything in this kerfuffle of a discussion is guesswork, wishful thinking, personal frustration, or fantasizing.
p.14 #18 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
bwana999 wrote:
How so? What does the Sony a7R and the latest Nikon have in common?
bwa
The sensors will be very similar, maybe just slight upgrades from the sensor Sony developed for the D800. I think the angled microlenses are new in the A7r.
p.14 #20 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Likely Issue with adapted Canon lenses on A7R
I was watching the Sony product announcement that Fred provided in this thread, Page 11 post #8 start at 17 min. The product manager describes the design of the sensor pixels as having offset micro lenses towards the periphery of the sensor where the light strikes the sensor at an oblique angle. The micro lens design would help to minimize vignetting as one would be able to capture a bit more light. Inherent in this micro lens design is that the mirrorless body has a very short registration distance; from the rear lens element to the sensor. The larger FF sensor requires that the light coming from the lens has to bend more than with a smaller 1.5 or 2X crop design, and thus strikes the sensor at sharper, more oblique angle.
However, when using the Canon EF lens, the lens designers were always blessed with a much longer registration distance (hence a thicker camera body). The light hits the sensor at a more straight on angle than for a lens native for the Sony A7R mount. Thus with the adapted Canon lens the sensor micro lenses will not be optimally placed as the camera presumes a lens of much shorter registration distance. The Sony video has a few diagrams.
How much loss of light will this micro lens misalignment cause? Perhaps just a small fraction of a stop? Will it simply look like a wee bit more vignetting over the native lens performance, or will it be more visible as CA or other forms of distortion in the corners? My guess would be at least a small increase in vignetting. Any opinions?
Mike K
That's just about all that a gazillion forum threads went on about ad infinitum. Then last year Canon gave everyone what they'd been screaming for since 2009. Once the AF was sorted suddenly the mp count and dynamic range was not good enough (Now it's the size!!!). Canon have certainly not made the advancements Sony and Nikon have in the sensor dept., but as an overall package the 5D3 is what thousands of Canon photogs were screaming for.
