p.100 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sebboh wrote:
from the samples I've seen with troublesome lenses
the a7 appears to have less physical vignetting than the ef, f, and a mount.
That is my conclusion also. Many of my old Nikkors vignetted quite a bit on the D700. Not so on the a7, for some reason, where they show very even illumination across the frame in comparison.
The only downside of the narrow mount is that a few lenses get a sharp vignetting in the extreme corners unless stopping down. It's an area so small that less than 10% cropping gets rid of it.
I've had the a7 for 6 days now, and I'm very, very happy with it. It's mostly exactly what I've wanted for years. Of course I had hopes for RF lenses, but I really don't care anymore. Whatever I put on it, the system will be much smaller and lighter than a current FF SLR. And then there is the great EVF that lets me shoot at night with every single image in focus. And the tilting screen that helps me get sharp images at 1/15 with 50 mm focal length. And the gorgeous files with great sharpness, colors and low noise. And it's even cheap too!
What more to ask for, if you're into manual focus lenses? Not much.
Edit:
douglasf13 wrote:
Either way, the main issue is lens size with fast wide angles.
On the other hand, noise is obviously much lower than with the only other "affordable" FF smallish camera (used M9), so you don't need super speed wide angles in the same way.
p.100 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I tend to agree with Carsten on the negative points. However, as he said, despite the limitations, I may buy the camera. Why not be honest -there are some great upsides, and some very bad downsides. I do not understand why people are upset by a little rational criticism - it may still be a great tool for specific purposes, depending on configuration and use. Good to point out the weaknesses, then maybe they will be mitigated in a later model etc. No?
So in the end, I may buy a flawed product - but I am aware of it (or hope to be), and the camera may be good enough for my intended use. But I would like more information and thoughts before I finally make up my mind!
p.100 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Makten wrote:
That is my conclusion also. Many of my old Nikkors vignetted quite a bit on the D700. Not so on the a7, for some reason, where they show very even illumination across the frame in comparison.
The only downside of the narrow mount is that a few lenses get a sharp vignetting in the extreme corners unless stopping down. It's an area so small that less than 10% cropping gets rid of it.
I've had the a7 for 6 days now, and I'm very, very happy with it. It's mostly exactly what I've wanted for years. Of course I had hopes for RF lenses, but I really don't care anymore. Whatever I put on it, the system will be much smaller and lighter than a current FF SLR. And then there is the great EVF that lets me shoot at night with every single image in focus. And the tilting screen that helps me get sharp images at 1/15 with 50 mm focal length. And the gorgeous files with great sharpness, colors and low noise. And it's even cheap too!
What more to ask for, if you're into manual focus lenses? Not much.
Edit:
On the other hand, noise is obviously much lower than with the only other "affordable" FF smallish camera (used M9), so you don't need super speed wide angles in the same way. ...Show more →
True, although I'm talking f2 wide angles, which I'm not sure that I'd consider super speed.
p.100 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
ceder wrote:
So in the end, I may buy a flawed product...
If one is going to be just a tiny bit rational, then any Leica M camera is much more flawed. You can't get everything at this price (nor at any price, currently). I don't mind critizism, but it's getting silly.
douglasf13 wrote:
True, although I'm talking f2 wide angles, which I'm not sure that I'd consider super speed.
Out of curiosity, what smallish f/2 wide angles are you thinking of?
p.100 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
No surprise about Vignetted worse with Nikon Body, which with smaller throat and further flange distance.
But I can't help feel the E mount support FF is afterward thought than prepared given even their native lens has edge color issue: RX1 and EF35. Look that 55f1.8, it almost like a regular 50 lens with adaptor add on, which did not benefit from short flange distance to me. Plus, looks like there isn't fast glass (yet or forever) for it indicate design challenge.
Given even u4/3 has longer flange distance, I doubt E mount is maximized for performance and well balance design trade off before hand for FF.
p.100 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
zhangyue wrote:
No surprise about Vignetted worse with Nikon Body, which with smaller throat and further flange distance.
But I can't help feel the E mount support FF is afterward thought than prepared given even their native lens has edge color issue: RX1 and EF35. Look that 55f1.8, it almost like a regular 50 lens with adaptor add on, which did not benefit from short flange distance to me. Plus, looks like there isn't fast glass (yet or forever) for it indicate design challenge.
Given even u4/3 has longer flange distance, I doubt E mount is maximized for performance and well balance design trade off before hand for FF. ...Show more →
Agreed. However, while there may not be much of an advantage with faster lenses, in terms of size, there does seem to be an advantage in terms of performance. Without a mirror in the way, the lens designs seem to be getting better.
p.100 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Makten wrote:
If one is going to be just a tiny bit rational, then any Leica M camera is much more flawed. You can't get everything at this price (nor at any price, currently). I don't mind critizism, but it's getting silly.
Exactly! The M9 / M240 is flawed, yet it is a great camera. The A7/r may be better and worse in some areas - no need to hide stuff?
p.100 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
zhangyue wrote:
No surprise about Vignetted worse with Nikon Body, which with smaller throat and further flange distance.
Que? The flange distance is of course the same with adapter. I'm not talking about mechanical vignetting, but vignetting because of the sensor properties.
Look that 55f1.8, it almost like a regular 50 lens with adaptor add on, which did not benefit from short flange distance to me.
It's damn much better than any equally sized SLR lens (with adapter) that I know of. And yes, it did benefit from the short flange distance since the rearmost lens element is way farther back than the mirror would clear. Actually very close to the sensor:
p.100 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Their lenses have been brilliant so far. I don't really mind it is a f1.8 or f1.4, at least for AF FE lens.
Even I can't help thinking but E mount support FF, I have bought the camera, I will just sit and see how it(A system) evolve. in the mean time, just adapt whatever lens I have to have some fun .
p.100 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Makten wrote:
Que? The flange distance is of course the same with adapter. I'm not talking about mechanical vignetting, but vignetting because of the sensor properties.
No need to hide stuff, but also no need to call either the M:s or the a:s "flawed". They fulfill their purposes.
Whoops, you are right. I thought you were refer mechanic vignette, which should not matter with adaptor. my bad.
p.100 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
zhangyue wrote:
But Then why sony has less vignette?
The a7R probably haven't and I can't speak for other SLR:s than the D700. That camera has an old sensor that probably sucks when it comes to handling non-perpedicular light rays in the corners, so the same lens on the a7 will give better performance towards the corners (edit: except for a few millimeters in the extreme corners, where the mount can give vignetting with some lenses). I've actually seen a slight purple vignetting on the D700 with some lenses.
p.100 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Makten wrote:
The a7R probably haven't and I can't speak for other SLR:s than the D700. That camera has an old sensor that probably sucks when it comes to handling non-perpedicular light rays in the corners, so the same lens on the a7 will give better performance towards the corners (edit: except for a few millimeters in the extreme corners, where the mount can give vignetting with some lenses). I've actually seen a slight purple vignetting on the D700 with some lenses.
OK, I agree D700 is pretty bad with vignette on many fast glass I have, Though I thought it is the lens but maybe both.
You also right about FE55 design. but in the end, It is doesn't benefit much of flange distance consider how small 50cron AA is, in terms of size. We still need to see more samples to convince ourself that it is better than anything else.
I thought FE35 was already close to be the best of 35mm, but from TAhley review: it seems worse than 35lux FLE. so I will reserve judgement for 55.
p.100 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I can't believe we are still talking size!
Makten wrote:
It's [the FE55] damn much better than any equally sized SLR lens (with adapter) that I know of. And yes, it did benefit from the short flange distance since the rearmost lens element is way farther back than the mirror would clear. Actually very close to the sensor
Agree. A high performance 55/1.8 in the SLR world, plus adapter, would be a little larger in diameter than the FE55 and possibly as long or longer. Call the size comparison a wash at worst.
If we are going to talk size what matters to me is not whether one lens is a few mm bigger or smaller here and there but the overall size of the package. An A7r / FE55 slides without effort into a tiny bag that my D800 with *any* lens can't possibly fit.
Personally I like the form factor of yesteryear's small film SLRs. Folks that like those shapes will probably take to the A7/r cameras like ducks to water.
p.100 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I wonder why Zeiss chose 55mm focal length and not 50? I must say that 40–50 is my all-time favourite FL, but 55 (only 5mm, I know) is just a bit too long.
And I have not been able to find a weight for this—anyone?
p.100 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Kit Laughlin wrote:
I wonder why Zeiss chose 55mm focal length and not 50? I must say that 40–50 is my all-time favourite FL, but 55 (only 5mm, I know) is just a bit too long.
And I have not been able to find a weight for this—anyone?
The OTUS is 55mm, too. I believe that it is just a little easier to design a great performing lens at the longer focal length.
p.100 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
ceder wrote:
Exactly! The M9 / M240 is flawed, yet it is a great camera. The A7/r may be better and worse in some areas - no need to hide stuff?
who's hiding stuff? nobody is disputing carsten's complaints but some people (namely me) will dispute whether those design choices were good or bad. i would find the camera less attractive if it was any larger to accommodate bigger batteries or a larger/longer mount. I also see no advantage (to me) of a different mount that would force me to buy a bunch of new adapters.
p.100 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Makten wrote:
I've had the a7 for 6 days now, and I'm very, very happy with it. It's mostly exactly what I've wanted for years. Of course I had hopes for RF lenses, but I really don't care anymore. Whatever I put on it, the system will be much smaller and lighter than a current FF SLR. And then there is the great EVF that lets me shoot at night with every single image in focus. And the tilting screen that helps me get sharp images at 1/15 with 50 mm focal length. And the gorgeous files with great sharpness, colors and low noise. And it's even cheap too!...Show more →
Thanks for this succinct and to-the-point conclusion.
I suppose I have a fairly good understanding of the pros and cons of the system, but there aren't that many critical users' "final words" available as of yet. This is a valuable insight for me.
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