p.74 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Tariq Gibran wrote:
That just goes to show you have a steadier hand than me. I don't like to be surprised with soft images so I do tend to overcompensate a tiny bit. I also prefer shooting at F4 or 5.6 so fast shutter speeds in decent light are seldom an issue.
I think the lighter weight of the A7r is going to come into play as well...particularly with it's mouse-trap like sprung shutter.
Just figure out how to use this to trip the shutter hand held
p.74 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
ct8282 wrote:
So no, if you want those focal lengths why would you let a shutter sound put you off buying the A7R which is significantly cheaper than the RX1 and provides much more flexibility?
fredmirandafan wrote:
Simple, because I shoot at quiet and business events where shutter sound like the A7R is frowned upon.
I often shoot Zen meditation and ceremony events, with X100s, X-Pro 1, and 6D. The 1D-series stuff usually stays outside.
p.74 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Jonas B wrote:
When using the great Zuiko 75/1.8 on a µ4/3 camera (without IBIS) the rule of thumb says 1/150 or thereabout.
I did some handholding tests of the amazing Zuiko 75/1.8 on my EM1 and found out not all shots at 1/75 is sharp at the pixel level. The claims of IBIS giving 4-5 stops may be ok for web size, but to really get pixel level, even with IBIS on, I need to give the best handholding techniques plus over set 1 over 2x FL for shutter speed.
p.74 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I think the lighter weight of the A7r is going to come into play as well...particularly with it's mouse-trap like sprung shutter.
I shot hundreds of photos during several Sony A7(R) events recently, almost 80% are not sharp at the pixel level due to low shutter speeds that would have yielded pin sharp photos on my RX1R, which is when I know the A7R would require more shooting discipline from me. Either that or every time I heard the mouse-trap, I unconsciousness jerk my hands
p.74 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
fredmirandafan wrote:
I did some handholding tests of the amazing Zuiko 75/1.8 on my EM1 and found out not all shots at 1/75 is sharp at the pixel level. The claims of IBIS giving 4-5 stops may be ok for web size, but to really get pixel level, even with IBIS on, I need to give the best handholding techniques plus over set 1 over 2x FL for shutter speed.
...and that's why I prefer cameras with no IBIS and lenses without stabilizing elements in them. All this exotic stuff adds to the price and for the money you get another factor that's pretty much unpredictable. With the EM5 (which I have owned and enjoyed) we have this known problem with the IBIS not compensating for the shutter shock. Maybe it's the same with the EM1?
Stabilization most often helps but it's not failproof and comes with a set of drawbacks. Now all this is off topic and I think we shouldn't discuss it too much here. For 100% viewing and sharpness at pixel level my guess is that the old rules don't apply (which partly brings us back on topic but...).
p.74 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Folks really need to be shooting at 1/250 sec or so handheld for a 35-50mm lens and FF 36MP's in my experience if they want very sharp images at 100% view. Also, as previously mentioned by sebboh I believe, even if the pixel density is the same as APS 16MP roughly, the longer focal length required for FF to get a similar AOV as when using APS and shorter focal lengths must be considered. So, it's not just pixel density but pixel density and the focal lengths used for that pixel density (longer focal lengths of course requiring higher shutter speeds). The lighter weight and smaller size of the A7r could also come into play against it for steady hand hold-ability and sharp images at 100%.
edit - Rich, I think the above is particularly relevant to someone coming from say an M9, as you posted above. It's really no surprise that 1/100 sec hand held is not going to result in files that are up to scrutiny at 100% from the A7r. Heck, I would not expect that even from my older a900 at 24MP's and a 50mm lens....Show more →
That is quite a drop off from the 1/30 sec that I can hit 95% , and 1/15 sec about 50%, of the time with a 35mm on my 5d2. Either you are horrendously bad at holding a camera steady or this is excessively hard to do with a high density sensor. Probably a little bit of both. It is looking more and more like an a7 in my street life night photography future.
p.74 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
fredmirandafan wrote:
I shot hundreds of photos during several Sony A7(R) events recently, almost 80% are not sharp at the pixel level due to low shutter speeds that would have yielded pin sharp photos on my RX1R, which is when I know the A7R would require more shooting discipline from me. Either that or every time I heard the mouse-trap, I unconsciousness jerk my hands
Hilarious!
It has always been the case that a leaf shutter based camera can be shot hand-held at a slower shutter speed versus a camera with a focal plane shutter. I'm still surprised by your high % of soft images. Others have mentioned the shutter button being "mushy" with no real tactile feedback and I wonder if that also comes into play.
p.74 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
kezeka wrote:
That is quite a drop off from the 1/30 sec that I can hit 95% , and 1/15 sec about 50%, of the time with a 35mm on my 5d2. Either you are horrendously bad at holding a camera steady or this is excessively hard to do with a high density sensor. Probably a little bit of both. It is looking more and more like an a7 in my street life night photography future.
Was that with the Canon 35 F2 with IS? I will say my "hit" rate at 1/250 is 100% so I don't take chances when I don't need to. If you are getting 95% tack sharp images at 1/30 sec hand held with a non IS 35mm lens on a 5DII, I would say that's damn good...and probably not that common.
p.74 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Jonas B wrote:
Stabilization most often helps but it's not failproof and comes with a set of drawbacks. Now all this is off topic and I think we shouldn't discuss it too much here. For 100% viewing and sharpness at pixel level my guess is that the old rules don't apply (which partly brings us back on topic but...).
I much prefer a stable shutter behavior instead of shutter shock or inconsistent IBIS behaviors. On my EM1, it is very weird that sometimes 1/FL would give blurry images even with IBIS turned on, but if I set the shutter speed one stop slower then it's pin sharp, really strange.
p.74 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Hilarious!
As hilarious as it sounds, I'm not exactly kidding. There are two very distinct slaps, it really feels like something bad was about to happen, maybe it's some kind of childhood trauma thing being injured by mouse traps before, so every time I hear that kind of sound...
Tariq Gibran wrote:
It has always been the case that a leaf shutter based camera can be shot hand-held at a slower shutter speed versus a camera with a focal plane shutter. I'm still surprised by your high % of soft images. Others have mentioned the shutter button being "mushy" with no real tactile feedback and I wonder if that also comes into play.
I was also deliberately pushing the limits by shooting on the edge shutter speeds like 1/60, 1/80 that my RX1R would usually still give sharp images, now that I have the EVF to brace on. But that A7R, it's a different beast. Requires better ways to tame
p.74 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I think it's DPR using the crappy Sony kit lens, which I also tested on the A7, its got some kind of lens stabilization which lowers auto shutter speed further, thereby yielding inconsistent results
I still couldn't find any min shutter speed setting like on the Fuji and Nikon on the Sony, just like their entire RX series, urgh... So I resorted to M and let ISO ride, not ideal. Good luck convincing Sony to add it.
Also, Sony rep said there will be no chance in hell they will change the Auto Magnification behavior on RX1 while MF, some kind of "engineering limitation". Thank goodness it's no longer an issue on A7 series.
p.74 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Yawn. It's a stunning camera. Take pictures, end of.
5 years ago you wouldn't be discussing this tosh. You'd argue over fps and ISO. It's like you're trying to find any minor detail possible to debate.
Fact is both A7's are astonishing. Peeps, they're full frame interchangeable lens cameras that can take practically any lens (with adaptor), fit in the palm of your hand, have 24mp and 36mp sensors (I mean, seriously wtf), and have been launched at very respectable price points.
p.74 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
ct8282 wrote:
5 years ago you wouldn't be discussing this tosh. You'd argue over fps and ISO. It's like you're trying to find any minor detail possible to debate.
Let's get real here. Damn.
A year from now we'll still be discussing more tosh when A9R comes out, that is the point of forums, no?
I don't like to be surprised with soft images so I do tend to overcompensate a tiny bit. I also prefer shooting at F4 or 5.6 so fast shutter speeds in decent light are seldom an issue.
