p.31 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Does anyone know (or care to speculate) about improvements to the EVF over the NEX models? The product guide suggests it's more like the A99 EVF which I've never tried, but all have the same inherent resolution. Are there accessory lenses in front of the EVF panel that can provide more magnification? I owned the Nex external EVF and liked it, but never achieved better fine focus success than a mediocre modern dSLR OVF, at least in good light. More magnification, if not more resolution, would certainly help.
Edit - just noticed in the specs in the product guide that the magnification is 0.71x which is the same as the Nex EVF's.
p.31 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sebboh wrote:
i'm sure i've mentioned this before in my rambling diatribes about why i prefer evfs to slr ovfs.
clearly you weren't paying attention.
I guess not. I do have a feeling that Sony is being a little over dramatic with that example though as I have never noticed OVF bokeh being that severely altered using solid matte screens. Obviously, it depends on the focusing screen type used - and perhaps they are using a micro prism screen or something similar to overemphasis their point.
p.31 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I guess not. I do have a feeling that Sony is being a little over dramatic with that example though as I have never noticed OVF bokeh being that severely altered using solid matte screens. Obviously, it depends on the focusing screen type used - and perhaps they are using a micro prism screen or something similar to overemphasis their point.
nope, that is almost perfectly in line with what i see everyday looking through the viewfinder of my xd-11 + 58/1.2 compared to what i actually get on film. it's important to note as well that the xd-11 viewfinder stomps the ovf of every viewfinder ever made for a dslr in terms of size, brightness, and ability to see real dof.
i'm probably much more sensitive to it than most since i often look through the same lens with an evf and ovf.
p.31 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Tarocco wrote:
Does anyone know (or care to speculate) about improvements to the EVF over the NEX models? The product guide suggests it's more like the A99 EVF which I've never tried, but all have the same inherent resolution. Are there accessory lenses in front of the EVF panel that can provide more magnification? I owned the Nex external EVF and liked it, but never achieved better fine focus success than a mediocre modern dSLR OVF, at least in good light. More magnification, if not more resolution, would certainly help.
The EVF optics are far superior to those used in NEX models which have the EVF built-in so the finder image will have less aberrations and distortions and should also offer more eye relief. That should make it somewhat clearer as well. Frankly, I was not able to use an NEX-7 for very long due to the really poor EVF optics (low angle of acceptance/ eye had to be perfectly centered and pressed right up to the finder to see whole screen).
p.31 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sebboh wrote:
nope, that is almost perfectly in line with what i see everyday looking through the viewfinder of my xd-11 + 58/1.2 compared to what i actually get on film. it's important to note as well that the xd-11 viewfinder stomps the ovf of every viewfinder ever made for a dslr in terms of size, brightness, and ability to see real dof.
i'm probably much more sensitive to it than most since i often look through the same lens with an evf and ovf.
Yes, but which focusing screen type does your XD-11 use? I know many older SLR's I have owned used a focusing screen with a central, split and or microprism device to aid manual focusing. That's exactly the type that would cause more issues with bokeh. The last few screens that I have used in DSLR's have been pure matte screens with no central focusing aids.
p.31 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Yes, but which focusing screen type does your XD-11 use? I know many older SLR's I have owned used a focusing screen with a central, split and or microprism device to aid manual focusing. That's exactly the type that would cause more issues with bokeh. The last few screens that I have used in DSLR's have been pure matte screens with no central focusing aids.
those only effect the center of the screen though, the matte part works just like the ones in dslrs except that it shows a truer version of the dof at large apertures. i pretty much regard the split image with microprism surround as a blind spot in my finder that i look around.
p.31 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sebboh wrote:
it's important to note as well that the xd-11 viewfinder stomps the ovf of every viewfinder ever made for a dslr in terms of size, brightness, and ability to see real dof.
Isn't that going to be true of many quality film camera viewfinders compared to dslr ovf's?
p.31 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
RustyBug wrote:
Isn't that going to be true of many quality film camera viewfinders compared to dslr ovf's?
yup. dslr viewfinders are terrible.
i was just pointing out that what i see through that viewfinder is the best case scenario. somebody looking through a dslr viewfinder will see something considerably further from the final output than what i see through my film slr and still notice the glaring discrepancy.
p.31 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sebboh wrote:
... it's important to note as well that the xd-11 viewfinder stomps the ovf of every viewfinder ever made for a dslr in terms of size, brightness, and ability to see real dof.
...
Except the Leica R4, probably on account of them being based on the same body/chassis, but not sure how much if any of that relates to pentaprisms/focusing screens etc. Viewfinder magnification is very similar and larger than most cameras which accounts for the larger image and there fore easier focusing.
I always found the R4 to have one of the best, if not the best, viewfinder for focusing wide angle lenses and especially when fitted with a later focusing screen, from R6/7 bodies which where brighter yet easy to focus accurately. That's why I still have it as it has a place even compared to the R8/9, which is also great for accurate focusing, but with a smaller image magnification. The R4 is a great camera for wide angle lenses that are otherwise harder to focus accurately.
p.31 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sebboh wrote:
those only effect the center of the screen though, the matte part works just like the ones in dslrs except that it shows a truer version of the dof at large apertures. i pretty much regard the split image with microprism surround as a blind spot in my finder that i look around.
I'm not so sure that's the case when it comes to bokeh (the central split image or micro-prism only having a central effect). From your statement then, I take it your XD-11 does indeed have a central focusing aid. If you use a ground glass screen, for instance, the bokeh would not be effected like the Sony example. I'm pretty sure the micro-prism has an effect on the oof areas with regard to bokeh. In any case, this is an advantage of EVF's compared to common focusing screens - perhaps the single instance where reality as seen through the lens is portrayed more accurately than through an OVF.
p.31 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
mco_970 wrote:
Yikes! Too sharp!! I am never letting anyone take my picture with that thing...
He had both the sharpness and the contrast set to +1 so the sharpness was enhanced plus...
It's also interesting to note that the new Bionz X processor in these cameras are apparently doing some major "image enhancement" in the form of sharpening which Sony marketing (per the product brochure) describe as "Detail reproduction technology" which "restores clarity". The effect looks good but I'm not so sure I want my raws touched to that extent.
Sony makes a lot of this new Bionz X processor and I'm wondering what other image processing is taking place. For instance, I have yet to see any moire in examples that I would have thought would have exhibited some. Perhaps there is some sort of "anti-moire" processing going on as well.
I do have a feeling that Sony is being a little over dramatic with that example though as I have never noticed OVF bokeh being that severely altered using solid matte screens. Obviously, it depends on the focusing screen type used - and perhaps they are using a micro prism screen or something similar to overemphasis their point.
I am never letting anyone take my picture with that thing...