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Archive 2013 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

  
 
sflxn
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p.144 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


nandadevieast wrote:
1)
Are A7 and A7r both affected by internal reflections?
2)
Is A7 mount weaker because it is set in a plastic front plate?
3)
Is there a consensus that FE 55 also induces vibrations at certain shutter speeds? I would love it if someone could objectively sum up the vibration issue for me. Focal lengths affected, shutter speeds etc.


These are all in progress. However, like all equipment, just because someone's equipment behaves in one way doesn't mean your exact same model will behave the same. Manufacturing variables. You need to test your own equipment.

I can comment on #3. Lloyd did his test, he believes he found vibration. I did my own test. I found almost none. You need to understand how the tests are done and test it yourself. I anchored mine at the camera base using a better ballhead than he did. Where did he anchor? Could that have affected the situation? Who knows. You can read the shutter vibration thread for more details.

The flare and vibration issues are important to me, so I'm keeping very close tabs on them.



Dec 23, 2013 at 02:22 PM
sflxn
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p.144 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


snapsy wrote:
Has anyone notice how when you have a native E/FE mount lens attached and the body set for MF that the on-screen distance scale has a virtual dampening of the decoupled MF ring as you approach optimal focus and then a little pause right at the peak of focus? Nice little touch IMO.


Yes. I wasn't sure if I was imagining it. Really helps with the fine tuning.



Dec 23, 2013 at 02:24 PM
philip_pj
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p.144 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


'the on-screen distance scale has a virtual dampening'

This is the kind of attenton to detail that Sony are really putting work into, snapsy. They really want the FE range to be great, they probably foresaw much of the release-time angst. They do stuff any other company would have the PR shills promoting strongly.

Other similar issues to explore in due season will be their jpeg enhancements to diffraction and sharpening - Imaging Resource were very positive about these developments. I believe, against a torrent of opposition, that Sony would be able to best optimise these things.



Dec 23, 2013 at 03:45 PM
philip_pj
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p.144 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


An excellent article from Roger Cicala who is not generally well-disposed towards Sony: 'Sony did some things very wrong with this camera.' It is a good exploration of the various issues at the lens-adapter-sensor interfaces.

'Despite spending a lot of time discussing the problems off-axis, lets remember that most lenses perform every bit as well adapted to the A7R in the corners as they do on their native mount cameras.' Hear hear.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/12/a-bit-of-a7r-sanity

A fair overview may be that when a person starts listing complaints including battery life, EVF not = OVF, wake time etc. they are working from the existing paradigm of armoured up, military precision DSLRs, and in time may want to consider the obvious benefits of the new paradigm. My mileage very definitely does vary in both respects, but then again image quality and fit-for-purpose (travel, landscape) are the major criteria for me.

With the lens profiling of M images that Leica must do, and Roger's informed comments on lens-sensor compatibility, the days of non-system cameras may be drawing to a close, for high end users at least. Given the twists and turns in our equipment these days, a supreme irony of Sony a7 series may be this:

You can get very good results carefully selecting and using legacy Alt lenses but Sony are working hard in this brave new world optimising the FE series of lenses to their sensor characteristics; and you can bet Zeiss will do the same for FE manual focus lenses. So that is the coalface today.

What this means for C/N with their legacy - the 'installed base' if you will - of over 150 million 'old school' lenses is an interesting subject. Roger's equipment cannot even measure more than 10 degrees off axis for E mount...the corners of the 55 FE will go unmeasured presumably.



Dec 23, 2013 at 05:29 PM
jcolwell
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p.144 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


philip_pj wrote:
... when a person starts listing complaints including battery life, EVF not = OVF, wake time etc. they are working from the existing paradigm of armoured up, military precision DSLRs, and in time may want to consider the obvious benefits of the new paradigm...


This "new paradigm" predates the A7/A7R by at least a few years. Just sayin'.


philip_pj wrote:
... image quality and fit-for-purpose (travel, landscape) are the major criteria for me.


Me too.



Dec 23, 2013 at 05:39 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.144 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


philip_pj wrote:
A fair overview may be that when a person starts listing complaints including battery life, EVF not = OVF, wake time etc. they are working from the existing paradigm of armoured up, military precision DSLRs, and in time may want to consider the obvious benefits of the new paradigm. My mileage very definitely does vary in both respects, but then again image quality and fit-for-purpose (travel, landscape) are the major criteria for me.


Phillip, there clearly are few groups of people here (and shades of gray between) - and the clever ones not commenting these threads


For the really serious people, here are few smileys


Group A "Happy Happy Joy Joy"- / "Fanboy"-group

This group can't discuss anything objective. Everything is so great and there is enormous hype. Anything negative is tried to be turned into "you are using it wrong, you have to use light lenses and handhold"-kind of thinking, or denied "I don't see anything, and camera should not be used for purpose X/I'm not using camera for that". These person usually seem to prefer native lenses. These users typically have history of NEX or/and other mirrorless cameras.


Group B "Hardcore"-group

This group is determined to take everything out from the camera and themselves. They find issues, compare to different product category and discuss about the issues, and try to find best ways to mitigate issues and get best value out from their A7(r) in whatever purpose they are planning to use it. Many in this group also seemed to hope that this would work with rangefinder lenses (=small package and best image quality, the "ultimate combo"). Group doesn't seem to have preference for native or alternative lenses, selection is based on performance and rendering characteristics. These users typically have history from DSLRs, most shoot Nikon D800(E) or rangefinder guys with M9/240.


Group C "Drama queen"-group

These guys buy A7(r), swear it in forum and return it. Maybe get other versions instead.



Of "the new paradigm" as you call it, really isn't that revolutionary. Like I earlier wrote to you improvements are mostly quantity based in A7(r);
- cheaper than Leica
- smaller/lighter than DSLR
- larger sensor than NEX/Fuji/whatevermirrorless
- shorter flange distance than in other fullframe cameras
All of these are good "quantities", and even better when combined to one camera, which I think is Sony's biggest achievement. In my opinion this is really good for the industry, specially because it was not done by Canon&Nikon (=the big ones) but adding 3rd player into the "game". Hopefully it makes competition hard and people get better products and value for their money in the future due to that.



For me A7/A7r never really was really about size/weight, travel etc. it's a nice bonus for sure, but not primary reason. These are obviously very important to you, but for some reason you fail to understand that other people can enjoy same product for different reasons and use it completely differently. If we would still live film era I would be shooting with medium format (would do on digital as well, but digital backs and best lenses are just too expensive) or large format. For me the reasons are really sensor quality and possibility to use optics, which I consider best from performance and usability standpoint. EVF wasn't nice bonus, as I have shoot with EVF (LCD+LCDVF) from 2008, I really could not live without great EVF. Like said size/weight is added bonus, and thanks to it I can fit 3 cameras to flight regulation camera back bag (or to hike), which I give a lot of value as it raises usability to new levels. I'm also strange in that sense that I enjoy shooting from good tripod, and generally don't feel it's limiting factor in majority of my photography. Naturally there are situations, in which I prefer handholding.

Does all this mean, that I should not enjoy the camera because I don't fulfil your definition of only correct A7(r) usage = shooting handheld with native lenses and doing things people used to do with compact digicams, but with better image quality?

Samuli



Dec 23, 2013 at 06:51 PM
carstenw
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p.144 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


nandadevieast wrote:
1)
Are A7 and A7r both affected by internal reflections?
2)
Is A7 mount weaker because it is set in a plastic front plate?


1) yes, I have seen one photo from the A7R where exactly the same type of disturbing reflections are present as with the A7. I don't yet know if the problem is present in the A7R to the same degree, but my working assumption is that it is.

2) no, apparently there is an internal magnesium front plate in both cameras to which the mount is attached. I don't know if the exterior magnesium front plate of the A7R gives additional strength to the mount, or if it is just a feel thing.



Dec 23, 2013 at 07:51 PM
Jman13
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p.144 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


I finished my review today: http://admiringlight.com/blog/review-sony-a7/


Dec 23, 2013 at 10:20 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.144 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Thanks Jordan!


Dec 23, 2013 at 10:36 PM
sflxn
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p.144 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


More flare testing. This time with Nikkor 28/2.8 AiS and Metabones Nikon G to E adapter. Not so bad. However, if you look at the first image, you will see a strange black band across the image, extending from the light source. I've seen this on a few test images.












Dec 23, 2013 at 11:35 PM
bcaslis
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p.144 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Jman13 wrote:
I finished my review today: http://admiringlight.com/blog/review-sony-a7/


Very nice review, I liked it a lot. I even learned the C1 button works as the focus magnifier when in MF mode. I was using it for the AF point adjustment but didn't realize it worked for MF also. Now I have another custom button I can assign for something different!



Dec 24, 2013 at 01:21 AM
ISO1600
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p.144 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Just saw something terrible. A7 kit, used, for $1300 us equivalent, here in Seoul. Almost bought it just because. Got a perfect canon 28/2 FD for $170 instead!


Dec 24, 2013 at 04:15 AM
theophilus
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p.144 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


My take after three weeks with the A7:

1) I finally have malleable raw files again. It's like when I got my 5D in 2006, but with a couple more stops of dynamic range, and no need to always expose as far as possible to the right. I can find stuff in the shadows that I haven't been able to before.

2) It solves the complaints I've had with the NEX-7. Proper labeled dials. The EVF is great in low light. Slightly bigger in each dimension to fit my hands. AF is much, much better to the point I can really trust it.

3) I can focus my alt lenses (Oly 21/3.5, C/Y 28/2.8, C/Y 50/1.7, Nikon 105/2.5) to a level of accuracy that I could not attain with my 5D and precision matte screen. Getting a bright view when stopped down is great.

4) It's generally slow to respond, and it bugs me especially in between shots when I want to change ISO. The startup time is slow but not X100 first firmware slow.

5) Some of the button placement is awkward for me. Especially menu and C2. I am just getting used to the C1 location. Maybe too many buttons. I ran out of things to program on them in AF mode.

6) I can make the weird night flare happen whenever I want to. If that type of night photography was a big part of my style I'd have to reconsider the camera.

7) the native FE35 and FE55 are phenomenal. The 55 is my new favorite lens, and I have not traditionally carried a 50mm with me at all (usually 21-28-85).

8) and yes the battery life generally sucks. worse than the NEX7.



Dec 24, 2013 at 03:41 PM
artur5
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p.144 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


While I concur with the short battery life complaint, I discovered that it was an additional reason for my batteries lasting so little time. Almost since the first day I set the 'remote control' option of the menu to 'ON'. ( for using one of those cheap Infrared remote controllers that I already had for my NEX-7 )
Well, it happens that in order to receive the signals of the external IR remote, the camera has to be 'awake' all the time, That is, it doesn't shuts off by itself after a programmed time of inactivity. Of course, if you think about it, that behavior makes sense, but it never occurred to me until today because with the NEX the settings for remote shots are different.
Just saying this in case some of you are experiencing the same issue.
Now, I don't expect the battery life to increase tenfold, but surely it will be way better if the camera shuts off automatically after one minute of inactivity.



Dec 24, 2013 at 04:22 PM
ISO1600
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p.144 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


I have adjusted my use habits with this camera, and one battery will safely last me a day of shooting now. I still carry spares though!


Dec 24, 2013 at 08:10 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.144 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


ISO1600 wrote:
Just saw something terrible. A7 kit, used, for $1300 us equivalent, here in Seoul. Almost bought it just because. Got a perfect canon 28/2 FD for $170 instead!


Yep - prices are bound to drop quite quickly….



Dec 24, 2013 at 11:44 PM
ht1948
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p.144 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Gentlemen, this is quite possibly a stupid question but I've been trying for the last hour to get DNG Converter 8.3 to recognize my A7 raw files and it doesn't. I thought 8.3 supports the A7?


Dec 24, 2013 at 11:56 PM
uhoh7
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p.144 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


SEL55210 @ 199mm om A7:

DSC02260 by unoh7, on Flickr



Dec 25, 2013 at 12:41 AM
ISO1600
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p.144 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


ha!


Dec 25, 2013 at 02:17 AM
miklar
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p.144 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


ht1948 wrote:
Gentlemen, this is quite possibly a stupid question but I've been trying for the last hour to get DNG Converter 8.3 to recognize my A7 raw files and it doesn't. I thought 8.3 supports the A7?


Yes, Adobe RAW converter 8.3 will process Sony's A7(r) RAW files.
When you reference DNG converter what exactly are you doing?
Cheers



Dec 25, 2013 at 10:46 AM
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