p.131 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Question for cold weather shooters. I was out for about an hour in around 15F today, and towards the end of the outing, some pixels on the LCD went out, all in the upper left corner, probably 30 in total. I was worried I'd damaged it, but they all functioned normally after the camera warmed up again. The EVF was perfectly fine the whole time, as were all of the photos I took, so it seems isolated to the LCD. I can't say I've had this happen with any of my other LCD screens.
Is this a normal phenomenon, or should I bring it back during the return period?
p.131 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Having the variability in test results with the A7r, I just performed some micro caliper measurements on three adapters I have:
2 Novaflex M to E mount
1 Metabones from Sony: M to E mount
The 2 Novaflex adapters have a flange thickness that is 9.71mm to 9.73mm.
The 1 Metabones adapter from Sony, has a flange thickness of 9.91mm.
The difference of 0.2mm in optical flange tolerance is very large, and may the reason why there are some variability in test results.
The Metabones adapter, does not have any drift beyond infinity, and matches really well, with virtually no play in the lens mount. The two Novaflex adapters fall short of infinity, and there is some torsional play in the older lenses.
I might send my Novaflex adapters to Camera Clinic, in Melbourne, and see if the tolerances can be tightened to where infinity matches and there is no play in the M lenses.
p.131 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
uscmatt99 wrote:
Question for cold weather shooters. I was out for about an hour in around 15F today, and towards the end of the outing, some pixels on the LCD went out, all in the upper left corner, probably 30 in total. I was worried I'd damaged it, but they all functioned normally after the camera warmed up again. The EVF was perfectly fine the whole time, as were all of the photos I took, so it seems isolated to the LCD. I can't say I've had this happen with any of my other LCD screens.
Is this a normal phenomenon, or should I bring it back during the return period?...Show more →
I used mine the other day in 12 degree (F) weather for about 90 min with no such problems. The only issue that I've found with my A7 so far is that if I shut if off and then on again quickly, sometimes it won't boot up, but this doesn't seem related to the weather.
p.131 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
charles.K wrote:
Having the variability in test results with the A7r, I just performed some micro caliper measurements on three adapters I have:
2 Novaflex M to E mount
1 Metabones from Sony: M to E mount
The 2 Novaflex adapters have a flange thickness that is 9.71mm to 9.73mm.
The 1 Metabones adapter from Sony, has a flange thickness of 9.91mm.
The difference of 0.2mm in optical flange tolerance is very large, and may the reason why there are some variability in test results.
The Metabones adapter, does not have any drift beyond infinity, and matches really well, with virtually no play in the lens mount. The two Novaflex adapters fall short of infinity, and there is some torsional play in the older lenses.
I might send my Novaflex adapters to Camera Clinic, in Melbourne, and see if the tolerances can be tightened to where infinity matches and there is no play in the M lenses.
Hah, I've been banging this drum, but it has been lonely.
Novoflex told me their adapter should be 9.74mm -- which makes it intentionally short (with 'technically correct' being 9.80mm). Metabones wouldn't tell me what their adapter should measure (but 9.91mm is clearly too wide, which is a bigger problem than too short).
If you keep testing, I hope you keep posting back here.
p.131 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
turnstyle wrote:
Hah, I've been banging this drum, but it has been lonely.
Novoflex told me their adapter should be 9.74mm -- which makes it intentionally short (with 'technically correct' being 9.80mm). Metabones wouldn't tell me what their adapter should measure (but 9.91mm is clearly too wide, which is a bigger problem than too short).
If you keep testing, I hope you keep posting back here.
I suspect Sony supplying these adapter indirectly, may have provided the specs for the Metabone adapters. All my M lenses are very accurately calibrated, and fitting them with the Metabones adapter, the infinity aligns accurately. I suspect the flange width of 9.91mm would be accurate dimension that works. I now know the 9.71/9.73mm does not work well, and it the width dimension used for the Novaflex adapters. I will have these both sent away and shimmed
p.131 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
good to know, Charles and we are with you, turnstyle - adapters are a huge issue for these cameras, obviously.
I called our friends at Sony Australia the other day to ask where my M-E metabones was, they said I was in the system and it would take 4-6 weeks to arrive, lol. I would say they sold quite a few a7/a7rs...
p.131 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Doing some initial testing over the weekend and looking at the files, I thought it a good idea to remind people that, while these cameras are very good at mid-high ISO levels, the lowest ISO possible gives the full benefit of the sensors.
Yes, auto ISO will work very well, but know these facts:
Here is what you gain by using base ISO compared to the next few ISO levels in Dynamic Range (courtesy of DxO):
p.131 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
fungz0r wrote:
I'm looking at getting some jupiter lenses to play around with on the a7, but I have no experience what so ever using adapters. Anybody point me in the right direction as to what kind of adapters I might use for a jupiter lens, and what kind of mount for jupiter lenses I should be looking at?
Thanks
The most versatile would be Jupiter lenses in Leica screwmount, otherwise known as LTM mount, also otherwise known as L39 mount. You can easily get an LTM-> Sony E-mount adapter, but you can also get an LTM->M-mount adapter + an M-mount->E-mount adapter. The advantage here is you can readily get M-mount->E-mount adapters which include a focusing helicoid, that allows you to lower the minimum focusing distance of these rangefinder lenses.
p.131 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
TBH, I have been burned by digital theorists in the past, especially the independent developer know-it-alls that frequent DPR.
I want to see what is happening in the scene in real time, not to be changing out settings often, and I would need plenty of evidence that relates to my needs to be even remotely interested in quirky exposure methods. My dimly lit compositions also have plenty of tone range so I am happy to trust to accumulated knowledge and the excellent software available.
But best to keep an open mind, but ISOless does not seem to arise too often does it?
p.131 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
michael49 wrote:
I used mine the other day in 12 degree (F) weather for about 90 min with no such problems. The only issue that I've found with my A7 so far is that if I shut if off and then on again quickly, sometimes it won't boot up, but this doesn't seem related to the weather.
Thanks Michael. If I replicate it, I may bring it in to see if they can return it back to Sony for refurbishment and swap for a new one.
p.131 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
uscmatt99 wrote:
Question for cold weather shooters. I was out for about an hour in around 15F today, and towards the end of the outing, some pixels on the LCD went out, all in the upper left corner, probably 30 in total. I was worried I'd damaged it, but they all functioned normally after the camera warmed up again. The EVF was perfectly fine the whole time, as were all of the photos I took, so it seems isolated to the LCD. I can't say I've had this happen with any of my other LCD screens.
Is this a normal phenomenon, or should I bring it back during the return period?...Show more →
Matt,
I have been shooting almost only below freezing point and same happened to me once. It was because my tripod fell and camera touched ground (light impact). Temperature at that day was -1C (1 degree below freezing point). Position of black pixels were top left corner of LCD as well.
Cold weather itself doesn't cause it; for example I was Saturday (2 days ago) shooting outdoors during whole period between sunrise and sunset and it was -6C in morning and -8C when I got home about 20min after sunset. Are you sure you haven't knocked the camera to something?
p.131 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
turnstyle wrote:
Hah, I've been banging this drum, but it has been lonely.
Novoflex told me their adapter should be 9.74mm -- which makes it intentionally short (with 'technically correct' being 9.80mm). Metabones wouldn't tell me what their adapter should measure (but 9.91mm is clearly too wide, which is a bigger problem than too short).
If you keep testing, I hope you keep posting back here.
Just FYI, I have two adapters: A Fotodiox and a Metabones. The Metabones goes back tomorrow (to Taiwan!) as it seems too thick and does not allow me to achieve infinity focus wide open on the Lux 50. The Fotodiox allows me to go beyond infinity. Oddly, when I tested the Metabones, even though I could not focus in the center wide open, by F4 it was quite good in the center AND in the corners on the Lux 50. With the Fotodiox, at F4, the corners were still soft. An interplay between field curvature and selective focus? Dunno, but I have ordered another Metabones in the hopes of getting one in spec and to see if it helps at infinity. The Fotodiox is just fine at short distances wide open.
p.131 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I bought the a7r to use primarily as a hand camera for travel and incidental landscape so I was curious to see how image quality panned out given the reputation of 36Mp sensors and the a7r-specific issues that are believed to degrade image quality, among them:
. generic shutter vibration ('shutter shock')
. greater need for good technique due to high resolution of 36Mp
. a mushy shutter
. a range of poor performance from maybe 1/20s to 1/80s
. a shutter which did not inform exactly when the shutter was tripped
. a long shutter lag
. a loud and presumably vibration-prone shutter
. lack of the EFCS of the a7
. the long duration of shutter sound and action
. a small body adding to poor damping of shutter action
. the position of the shutter release
We talk in terms of the reciprocal of the focal length as the standard for a handholding quality threshold. That was the old notion dating from film days, not necessarily ideal for the demands of today's cameras and the better lenses. Sony uses a minimum shutter speed for auto ISO of 1/80s for the RX1 - equipped with a 35mm f2 lens on a 24Mp sensor in a small body - and it cannot be changed I believe. That is around 2.5 times FL as the RX1 is not the full 35mm.
Subject matter is detailed foliage - bushes, leaves, objets d'art. What I found after using 21mm, 50mm and 100mm prime lens is that using one over focal length is indeed a lottery, maybe 25% were not bad, but at 2.5 times FL all was well, and reliably so over a series of shots. This was with no strap, no special technique which might balance out any ability or steady hands I may have. So it should work well for most users. I settled on 1/50s for the 21mm, 1/100-125s for 50mm and 1/200 plus for the 100mm. Even faster will further reduce the chances of a poor result, but these are shutter speeds I can almost always find at decent ISO levels.
Not saying a good tripod setup would not beat this performance as it always should, given good technique. But it is very satisfying for me at 100%, and I want to pass this information on, and see what other people think.
p.131 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
philip_pj wrote:
I bought the a7r to use primarily as a hand camera for travel and incidental landscape so I was curious to see how image quality panned out given the reputation of 36Mp sensors and the a7r-specific issues that are believed to degrade image quality, among them:
. generic shutter vibration ('shutter shock')
. greater need for good technique due to high resolution of 36Mp
. a mushy shutter
. a range of poor performance from maybe 1/20s to 1/80s
. a shutter which did not inform exactly when the shutter was tripped
. a long shutter lag
. a loud and presumably vibration-prone shutter
. lack of the EFCS of the a7
. the long duration of shutter sound and action
. a small body adding to poor damping of shutter action
. the position of the shutter release
We talk in terms of the reciprocal of the focal length as the standard for a handholding quality threshold. That was the old notion dating from film days, not necessarily ideal for the demands of today's cameras and the better lenses. Sony uses a minimum shutter speed for auto ISO of 1/80s for the RX1 - equipped with a 35mm f2 lens on a 24Mp sensor in a small body - and it cannot be changed I believe. That is around 2.5 times FL as the RX1 is not the full 35mm.
Subject matter is detailed foliage - bushes, leaves, objets d'art. What I found after using 21mm, 50mm and 100mm prime lens is that using one over focal length is indeed a lottery, maybe 25% were not bad, but at 2.5 times FL all was well, and reliably so over a series of shots. This was with no strap, no special technique which might balance out any ability or steady hands I may have. So it should work well for most users. I settled on 1/50s for the 21mm, 1/100-125s for 50mm and 1/200 plus for the 100mm. Even faster will further reduce the chances of a poor result, but these are shutter speeds I can almost always find at decent ISO levels.
Not saying a good tripod setup would not beat this performance as it always should, given good technique. But it is very satisfying for me at 100%, and I want to pass this information on, and see what other people think....Show more →
I agree with your findings exactly.
I have had no problem getting sharp results handheld with a wide variety of lenses and focal lengths including lenses you could imagine giving problems including featherweight 75mm & 90mm rangefinder lenses, long light lenses like a Voigtlander 180mm f4, and big heavy lenses like the Minolta 80-200mm f2.8 zoom.
In all cases, however, I needed to keep shutter speeds up around the 2.5x FL range you mention. Results at 1/FL were often shaky.
That being said, there are some wider lenses (like the 35mm FE) where I have no problem with shutter shock or technique even at quite slow shutter speeds; so while 2.5xFL is probably safe with any lens, there are probably lenses worth testing at slower shutter speeds and some of them will go into the "inexplicably work better than they should" category.
p.131 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
In general I am quite disappointed when I try dragging the shutter with the A7R. Things I could hold steady at 1/focal length or even 2/focal length on a good day, I cannot pull off with this camera.
Whether I just need better technique or not, Sony should find a way to buffer the shutter somehow, as a toggled setting. For example, cache the VF image for a second, but close the shutter and pause a moment, before taking the photo.
Or, just figure out how to make an electronic first curtain for the A7R, no matter what drawbacks such a mode might present.
(it's not full frame so has a correspondingly smaller shutter and uses a second curtain, but the EOS-M is perfect in this regard...and quiet!)
p.131 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I am not sure if this has been posted yet, but this is Roger from LensRentals, with his preliminary thoughts on revisiting the A7r Very interesting perspective!! LensRental - Roger A7r
p.131 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Matt,
I have been shooting almost only below freezing point and same happened to me once. It was because my tripod fell and camera touched ground (light impact). Temperature at that day was -1C (1 degree below freezing point). Position of black pixels were top left corner of LCD as well.
Cold weather itself doesn't cause it; for example I was Saturday (2 days ago) shooting outdoors during whole period between sunrise and sunset and it was -6C in morning and -8C when I got home about 20min after sunset. Are you sure you haven't knocked the camera to something?
Samuli
Samuli,
I either had the camera in a shoulder bag, or on a wrist strap while shooting and walking. At times I did have my hands in my pockets and let the camera dangle from the wrist strap. The strap is attached to the AS-plate on the bottom of my camera, and I'm sure it was bumping into my side while walking, but definitely no drop.
That it happened to you in the same type of circumstances makes me less worried, as both cameras went right back to functioning normally. I was worried a bit that a reversible occurrence would one day be irreversible. Maybe this is just something inherent in the design, though I didn't experience this with my NEX-6. I'll just have to be more cautious.
p.131 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Luvwine wrote:
Just FYI, I have two adapters: A Fotodiox and a Metabones. The Metabones goes back tomorrow (to Taiwan!) as it seems too thick and does not allow me to achieve infinity focus wide open on the Lux 50. The Fotodiox allows me to go beyond infinity. Oddly, when I tested the Metabones, even though I could not focus in the center wide open, by F4 it was quite good in the center AND in the corners on the Lux 50. With the Fotodiox, at F4, the corners were still soft. An interplay between field curvature and selective focus? Dunno, but I have ordered another Metabones in the hopes of getting one in spec and to see if it helps at infinity. The Fotodiox is just fine at short distances wide open....Show more →
Earlier in this thread (or perhaps another) -- I believe in response to a question about performance of floating element lenses such as the Lux 50 on a helicoid adapter -- which obviously shift the lens to a technically incorrect distance (too far)...
Somebody said it was his understanding and experience that floating element lenses are notably more sensitive to be being too close to the camera -- and not as much being farther. And so it should be ok to use a lens like the Lux on a helicoid.
I think this may jibe with your experience -- if the Fotodiox is too short, perhaps that's why you're having more trouble getting sharp on the sides. And if the Metabones is too long, perhaps this gets to that point about being less-compromised longer (except for the obvious problem that you can't properly reach infinity).
The variance in Metabones is surprising -- people in this thread have posted from 9.72 to 9.91 -- that's a big difference.
I'm still hoping that an adapter at the technically correct 9.80mm will provide better performance with a lens like the Lux 50 -- but I don't know if anybody has posted a test like that...
