I'll be taking it out and shooting with it for a while and taking a look at image quality before I give up on it, but so far it feels like a step backwards from my D700.
I can agree about most of your points. It's a good thing the price and the image quality make up for some of the drawbacks.
One thing, I don't know about your findings about the shutter lag. How did you check that? Coming from the RX1 I believe the D700 is a turtle, perhaps a fast turtle... but not like an RX1. I have played with the A7 to say anything for sure but to me it behaves as expected; I don't find the shutter lag problematic (yet). That's why I asked how you checked it. I have shot some cars approaching a white line in the street and it works fine, also when looking through the EVF.
As the camera by default has the electronic first curtain turned on one can't go by the sound. The image is already taken when you hear the shutter (which is horrendous loud and according to uhoh7 sounding like a Singer sewing machine from the 50's... or that was the A7r perhaps).
The shutter release. I wonder if there is some quality control problem there. The important half press point is easy to feel (unless you wear gloves) on my copy. It's also possible we have different expectations.
For the rest of it... yeah, maybe I also should have waited for the next generation. But... being able to easily focus critically can't be a step backwards. And the FA31/1.8 Ltd has never been better!
To bad if you are hit by the hype. I would give it some time and learn a little about the Sony quirks - or return it quickly. I hope you work it out!
p.116 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Lee Saxon wrote:
My "first look" impressions of the A7 are not good.
....
Shutter Blackout. Horrendous. What is going on with this? It's 3-4x the NEX-6 and ~5x my D700. I kept thinking I'd bumped the shutter speed dial to a long exposure time.
...
While I may agree to some points there are others that I dont get. The above one for instance. For how long have you been using the cam? The only way to create a shutter blackout that is noticable is to use a VERY long shutter time.
I am not a fan-boy, I come from the 5D2 and there are plenty of UI things that the Canon does much more swiftly and better. But from day one the Sony gives a number of extras that should be immediately noticeble coming from a D700 (as it does coming from a 5D2).
p.116 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Jonas B wrote:
One thing, I don't know about your findings about the shutter lag.
I was wrong about the shutter lag. I was being thrown off by the super weird and annoying "double cock" shutter sound. Tested it on some moving subjects today and confirmed shutter lag is fine.
wfrank wrote:
The only way to create a shutter blackout that is noticable is to use a VERY long shutter time.
I guess "noticeable" is subjective. Is it long enough to cause problems in most situations? Doubtful. Is it a dealbreaker for me? No. But it is quite annoying and distracting. I might be more understanding if the 1/3-price NEX-6 wasn't, as I mentioned, far shorter.
wfrank wrote:
But from day one the Sony gives a number of extras that should be immediately noticeble coming from a D700 (as it does coming from a 5D2).
EVF, focus magnification, ability to use shorter-flange lenses such as M-mount, more pixels. Only things I've found that my D700 lacks. I don't care about the fourth, but the first two might be enough reason to keep it.
p.116 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
A7R shutter slap does cause visible blurring due to camera shake.
This is alleviated when the shutter setting is above 1/150.
The test was done with a Nikon 70-200mm 2.8 GII, plus a 2 times Teleconverter, TC20EII. The adapter used is a Novoflex NEX/NIK. This combination was mounted using Markins’ ballhead on a Gtizo GT3541LS, without weights. Floor vibration are almost non-existent.
The good news; the above lens and teleconverter combination is notorious for vignetting when used with a Nikon D3x, however, with the A7R there is virtually no (or very little) vignetting.
You can view the files at http://www.pbase.com/mikeklar/image/153633039
These files are 100% crops.
The distance of the subject from the camera was slightly over 11 meters.
All attempts to capture images between 1 to 2 kilometers away had to be terminated as there was a great deal of atmospheric disturbance.
Cheers
p.116 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
miklar wrote:
The good news; the above lens and teleconverter combination is notorious for vignetting when used with a Nikon D3x, however, with the A7R there is virtually no (or very little) vignetting.
This seems like great news for SLR lens users. Those offset micro lenses seem to be causing a little bit of extra color shift with rangefinder lenses (and maybe even some FE lenses,) but it looks like the trade off is worth it for SLR lens users, which don't have as many issues with color shift.
p.116 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
miklar wrote:
A7R shutter slap does cause visible blurring due to camera shake.
This is alleviated when the shutter setting is above 1/150.
The test was done with a Nikon 70-200mm 2.8 GII, plus a 2 times Teleconverter, TC20EII. The adapter used is a Novoflex NEX/NIK. This combination was mounted using Markins’ ballhead on a Gtizo GT3541LS, without weights. Floor vibration are almost non-existent.
The good news; the above lens and teleconverter combination is notorious for vignetting when used with a Nikon D3x, however, with the A7R there is virtually no (or very little) vignetting.
You can view the files at http://www.pbase.com/mikeklar/image/153633039
These files are 100% crops.
The distance of the subject from the camera was slightly over 11 meters.
All attempts to capture images between 1 to 2 kilometers away had to be terminated as there was a great deal of atmospheric disturbance.
Cheers ...Show more →
I am not sure if it will fit your Novoflex NEX/NIK adapter, but the Novoflex rotating collar ASTAT-NEX may help balance the whole rig and lessen any vibration for lenses lacking a rotating collar.that you may be incur:
p.116 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
miklar,
Congratulations on the New Sony. I to will be attempting to use my 70-200 2.8 until I try the Sony version. How did you trip the shutter on these tests and did you try stabilizing the camera and lens or just the lens? I have used a magic arm from the tripod to the camera in the past with my D800e that helps.
Thanks, Dennis
p.116 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
douglasf13 wrote:
This seems like great news for SLR lens users. Those offset micro lenses seem to be causing a little bit of extra color shift with rangefinder lenses (and maybe even some FE lenses,) but it looks like the trade off is worth it for SLR lens users, which don't have as many issues with color shift.
Agree.
BTW, the combination with 2 times teleconverter does not have the resolving power for a 36 Mpx sensor, just wanted to convince myself of the impossible
p.116 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I tried the same thing with my Leica 180/2 and Nikkor 300/4 with TC1.4, on my A7, with and without electronic first curtain, all on my Gitzo GT3541XLS with Burzynski Ball Head II, both lenses on their own feet with RRS plates, and I found that the Leica was stable enough, but the Nikkor+TC would vibrate/move a lot more without electronic first curtain than with. I didn't try beanbag or any other tricks, but clearly that shutter is capable of vibrating an otherwise solid rig. The A7R will be a handful with very long lenses.
p.116 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
douglasf13 wrote:
This seems like great news for SLR lens users. Those offset micro lenses seem to be causing a little bit of extra color shift with rangefinder lenses (and maybe even some FE lenses,) but it looks like the trade off is worth it for SLR lens users, which don't have as many issues with color shift.
I notice lower vignetting with Nikon lenses on the a7 than on the D700, so it's not only the R that is better for SLR lenses. It's more like when I shoot film actually.
p.116 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
carstenw wrote:
I tried the same thing with my Leica 180/2 and Nikkor 300/4 with TC1.4, on my A7, with and without electronic first curtain, all on my Gitzo GT3541XLS with Burzynski Ball Head II, both lenses on their own feet with RRS plates, and I found that the Leica was stable enough, but the Nikkor+TC would vibrate/move a lot more without electronic first curtain than with. I didn't try beanbag or any other tricks, but clearly that shutter is capable of vibrating an otherwise solid rig. The A7R will be a handful with very long lenses.
Having read your post is what inspired me to do this. I'll do some more testing with lens in varying conditions and look forward to reading more of yours.
Cheers
p.116 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
dennishh wrote:
miklar,
Congratulations on the New Sony. I to will be attempting to use my 70-200 2.8 until I try the Sony version. How did you trip the shutter on these tests and did you try stabilizing the camera and lens or just the lens? I have used a magic arm from the tripod to the camera in the past with my D800e that helps.
Thanks, Dennis
Used the 10 second self timer as I don't have a Sony compatible remote as yet. Only the lens was mounted on a Markings ballhead.
I'd be interested to know more about the "magic arm" you refer to?
Of interest, the 70-200 on its own didn't display the issue as severely, and I will be checking on this in more detail in the next couple of days.
Unfortunately, the weather here in Toronto is not very conducive right now for some field work.
I'm off to a Christmas party, so Cheers
p.116 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
miklar wrote:
Used the 10 second self timer as I don't have a Sony compatible remote as yet. Only the lens was mounted on a Markings ballhead.
I'd be interested to know more about the "magic arm" you refer to?
Of interest, the 70-200 on its own didn't display the issue as severely, and I will be checking on this in more detail in the next couple of days.
Unfortunately, the weather here in Toronto is not very conducive right now for some field work.
I'm off to a Christmas party, so Cheers
You can get this Remote Sony Release for the camera:
Once an L bracket is available for the cameras including one from RRS you can consider using these parts to attach to both the camera L bracket and to the a lens collar Arca Swiss type plate to lock everything together:
p.116 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
The Magic Arm I use is combined with the super clamps makes it easily adjustable on the tripod. I only use it for slow shutter speed shots were quality is needed. This lock very secure with one motion, so its FAST to re-position the camera. I'm happy to see your comments about Nikon optics on the Sony A7r which I intend to use in the interim before Sony releases new lenses and I'm looking forward to your results.Have you tried the Nikon 14-24?
I've also had motion problems using my Nikon and Canon cameras so this is nothing new. Hopefully the next generation will have electronic shutters that don't create any vibration.
p.116 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
snowboarder wrote:
It's simple - money. If you read Steve's "review", it's really funny how he raves about Sony, but keeps
the door open with Leica ("feels" better etc). He wants to sell the most expensive stuff, that's his existence.
It's like most big frequent miles bloggers, they are paid by the banks today and they stopped giving honest
advice a while ago. It's all about Chase, Amex etc...
p.116 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
naturephoto1 wrote:
I am not sure if it will fit your Novoflex NEX/NIK adapter, but the Novoflex rotating collar ASTAT-NEX may help balance the whole rig and lessen any vibration for lenses lacking a rotating collar.that you may be incur:
You can try to place a Bean Bag on top of the camera and lens assembly to try to lessen vibration.
By the way, which Markins Ball Head were you using?
Rich
The Markins Ball-Head doesn't have any model number but for what looks like a serial number "M20-Kyxxxxx". It was the biggest they had and was acquired about ten years ago.
The way the lens combination was configured placed the centre of gravity on the foot. However, as someone has pointed out Nikon's lens mounts are subject to vibration and the way I set it up may well contribute to that.
In view of this I will rerun the test and use the components of my panorama rig to stabilize the front end of the lens.
Cheers
p.116 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
dennishh wrote:
The Magic Arm I use is combined with the super clamps makes it easily adjustable on the tripod. I only use it for slow shutter speed shots were quality is needed. This lock very secure with one motion, so its FAST to re-position the camera. I'm happy to see your comments about Nikon optics on the Sony A7r which I intend to use in the interim before Sony releases new lenses and I'm looking forward to your results.Have you tried the Nikon 14-24?
I've also had motion problems using my Nikon and Canon cameras so this is nothing new. Hopefully the next generation will have electronic shutters that don't create any vibration.
Regarding the Nikon 14-24mm, yes it appears to work just fine. There seems to be no smearing at 14mm.
This was tried last Thursday right after receiving the a7R and I'll have to take a more critical look at the images now that I have a little more control over the camera
cheers ...Show more →
but not like an RX1. I have played with the A7 to say anything for sure but to me it behaves as expected; I don't find the shutter lag problematic (yet). That's why I asked how you checked it. I have shot some cars approaching a white line in the street and it works fine, also when looking through the EVF.
