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Archive 2013Fujifilm SLR Thread
p.3 #1Fujifilm SLR Thread
It is still a sensor which samples 12 million different locations in the plane, and interpolates to get the missing data, isn't it. I agree with you that this is essentially a 6MP camera, and would never recommend that anyone use it at the 12MP setting, but I don't think there is the basis for saying that 6 million sites don't count because they don't record much information any more than the Foveon guys can say that my D800 is a 12MP camera.
Sep 11, 2013 at 04:32 PM
p.3 #2Fujifilm SLR Thread
carstenw wrote:
It is still a sensor which samples 12 million different locations in the plane, and interpolates to get the missing data, isn't it. I agree with you that this is essentially a 6MP camera, and would never recommend that anyone use it at the 12MP setting, but I don't think there is the basis for saying that 6 million sites don't count because they don't record much information any more than the Foveon guys can say that my D800 is a 12MP camera.
Nope. It's more technical and more subtle than that. Some quotes from Thom Hogan's review:
"That's not to say that it operates like a 6mp camera, though (this is where people get confused). First, one of the unique aspects of the SuperCCD designs Fujifilm uses compared to the Sony and Nikon sensors you find in the other Nikon mount bodies is that the Bayer pattern is angled at 45 degrees. While this doesn't sound like it should produce a difference, it does. Essentially, by angling the Bayer pattern the Fujifilm engineers get a "boost" in horizontal and vertical resolution at the expense of diagonal resolution. Traditional Bayer patterns (as used in all the Nikon DSLRs) get a "boost" in diagonal resolution at the expense of horizontal and vertical resolution. So what, you say? Consider gravity and its impact on how detail is organized in both the natural and man-made world: if you keep the camera perpendicular to the gravitational force (i.e. hold the camera level ;~) you get the maximum resolution ability of the Fujifilm bodies on the axis that has the most detail. This is not a trivial increase. Technically, it works out to as much as a 1.4x difference, so the 3000x2000 native pixels for the Fujifilm 6mp SuperCCD are acting more like a 4200x2800 sensor on the primary axis. The drawback is that diagonal lines are going to be more likely to show stair stepping than on a traditional Bayer sensor of the same number of pixels (which puts its highest resolution capability on the diagonal)."
"The second benefit that Fujifilm uses apparently has to do with the demosaic into 12mp. The default JPEG size for the 6mp S5 Pro is 12mp! In other words, the camera interpolates to a larger image size by default (you can turn this off). But as you'll learn, the 12mp image is slightly better at rendering detail than you'd expect from taking a 6mp image and using traditional interpolation routines. I conjecture that Fujifilm has a unique demosaic that takes into account something about the unique spatial relationship of the photo diodes."
"Just as with the S3 Pro, my conclusion is that the Fujifilm 6mp SuperCCDs really resolve most detail at about the level you'd expect an 8mp camera to."
It is still a sensor which samples 12 million different locations in the plane, and interpolates to get the missing data, isn't it. I agree with you that this is essentially a 6MP camera, and would never recommend that anyone use it at the 12MP setting, but I don't think there is the basis for saying that 6 million sites don't count because they don't record much information any more than the Foveon guys can say that my D800 is a 12MP camera.
Nope. It's more technical and more subtle than that. Some quotes from Thom Hogan's review:
"That's not to say that it operates like a 6mp camera, though (this is where people get confused). First, one of the unique aspects of the SuperCCD designs Fujifilm uses compared to the Sony and Nikon sensors you find in the other Nikon mount bodies is that the Bayer pattern is angled at 45 degrees. While this doesn't sound like it should produce a difference, it does. Essentially, by angling the Bayer pattern the Fujifilm engineers get a "boost" in horizontal and vertical resolution at the expense of diagonal resolution. Traditional Bayer patterns (as used in all the Nikon DSLRs) get a "boost" in diagonal resolution at the expense of horizontal and vertical resolution. So what, you say? Consider gravity and its impact on how detail is organized in both the natural and man-made world: if you keep the camera perpendicular to the gravitational force (i.e. hold the camera level ;~) you get the maximum resolution ability of the Fujifilm bodies on the axis that has the most detail. This is not a trivial increase. Technically, it works out to as much as a 1.4x difference, so the 3000x2000 native pixels for the Fujifilm 6mp SuperCCD are acting more like a 4200x2800 sensor on the primary axis. The drawback is that diagonal lines are going to be more likely to show stair stepping than on a traditional Bayer sensor of the same number of pixels (which puts its highest resolution capability on the diagonal)."
"The second benefit that Fujifilm uses apparently has to do with the demosaic into 12mp. The default JPEG size for the 6mp S5 Pro is 12mp! In other words, the camera interpolates to a larger image size by default (you can turn this off). But as you'll learn, the 12mp image is slightly better at rendering detail than you'd expect from taking a 6mp image and using traditional interpolation routines. I conjecture that Fujifilm has a unique demosaic that takes into account something about the unique spatial relationship of the photo diodes."
"Just as with the S3 Pro, my conclusion is that the Fujifilm 6mp SuperCCDs really resolve most detail at about the level you'd expect an 8mp camera to."
Sep 11, 2013 at 06:58 PM
p.3 #3Fujifilm SLR Thread
I suspect it has something to do with 45° tilt, maybe easier to "fill holes" with interpolation.
Fuji S5 Pro @ ISO 500 + C/Y 50/1.4 @ f1.4 or f2
In reality it was slight less dark, but only slightly.. SilkyPix development, cause amount of NR needed for this is out of options for anything else (well if you want some details left). Noise added in PP.
About colors from HU3. Well I tried it. They are nice, just not accurate. Seems like Fuji wanted certain color "look" in photos from S5 Pro, cause even "neutral" is color toned towards "Fujicolor". What isnt nice, is that it makes quite visible borders where colors end, not much of smooth gradients really..
I think that one good color profile for LR/ACR would solve problem for most users (its pretty ok on 6 Mpix with ACR, apart from colors, which are really not ok..).
If someone wants to try it, put these into Camera Calibration:
Red Primary:
+5
0
Green Primary:
+20
+15
Blue Primary:
+20
It wont make it look like Fujicolor, but it looks bit more normal for me (at least with LR5 or latest ACR).
Fuji S5 Pro @ ISO 500 + C/Y 50/1.4 @ f1.4 or f2
In reality it was slight less dark, but only slightly.. SilkyPix development, cause amount of NR needed for this is out of options for anything else (well if you want some details left). Noise added in PP.
About colors from HU3. Well I tried it. They are nice, just not accurate. Seems like Fuji wanted certain color "look" in photos from S5 Pro, cause even "neutral" is color toned towards "Fujicolor". What isnt nice, is that it makes quite visible borders where colors end, not much of smooth gradients really..
I think that one good color profile for LR/ACR would solve problem for most users (its pretty ok on 6 Mpix with ACR, apart from colors, which are really not ok..).
If someone wants to try it, put these into Camera Calibration:
Red Primary:
+5
0
Green Primary:
+20
+15
Blue Primary:
+20
It wont make it look like Fujicolor, but it looks bit more normal for me (at least with LR5 or latest ACR).
Sep 11, 2013 at 09:21 PM
p.3 #4Fujifilm SLR Thread
Shadow tint in Camera Calibration (ACR) goes haywire - one notch slider push/pull and it makes overall image look like Martian landscape from a bad sci-fi flick...
Sep 11, 2013 at 10:45 PM
p.3 #5Fujifilm SLR Thread
I specifically use my S5 Pro for the Fujicolor look. To me that is the most attractive, best looking color. By far.
Sep 11, 2013 at 10:52 PM
p.3 #6Fujifilm SLR Thread
I got it for the same reason, but seems like ACR is destroying it.
Yet, so far it has best HSL controls for me. RAWTherapee got a great amount of control, but just like AfterShot (ex. Bibble) it seem to smudge the fine detail.
I tried the Hyper Utility but couldn't figure out where to edit the files so I nuked it..
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am seeing somewhat desaturated blues and yellows shifted towards orange. That seems to pop the reds and oranges.
I am off work today and popped out for a moment, which I am regretting as it is over 30+ outside. There are asian giant hornet scouts flying around and they scare the bricks out of me, so I had to look constantly over my shoulder. Last one I saw was size of my pinky finger...
Anyway, I was trying to find volumetric light environments, where light bouncing off the walls, ground and back creates an even illumination, but failed.
Here are few shots. ZF35/2:
http://www.3byk.org/imgposts/zf35_2/DSF4239.jpg
http://www.3byk.org/imgposts/zf35_2/DSF4232.jpg
Yet, so far it has best HSL controls for me. RAWTherapee got a great amount of control, but just like AfterShot (ex. Bibble) it seem to smudge the fine detail.
I tried the Hyper Utility but couldn't figure out where to edit the files so I nuked it..
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am seeing somewhat desaturated blues and yellows shifted towards orange. That seems to pop the reds and oranges.
I am off work today and popped out for a moment, which I am regretting as it is over 30+ outside. There are asian giant hornet scouts flying around and they scare the bricks out of me, so I had to look constantly over my shoulder. Last one I saw was size of my pinky finger...
Anyway, I was trying to find volumetric light environments, where light bouncing off the walls, ground and back creates an even illumination, but failed.
Here are few shots. ZF35/2:
http://www.3byk.org/imgposts/zf35_2/DSF4239.jpg
http://www.3byk.org/imgposts/zf35_2/DSF4232.jpg
Sep 12, 2013 at 12:08 AM
p.3 #7Fujifilm SLR Thread
I cannot see all photos right now due to being at work. I can see the second one but not the first.
I am intrigued as you are using Zeiss glass on the S5. I have been tempted to get a Zeiss lens for my S5 but keep thinking it might not be a good idea.
I use Hyper Utility. There is nothing better at getting color out of S5 Raw files. Nothing.
I am intrigued as you are using Zeiss glass on the S5. I have been tempted to get a Zeiss lens for my S5 but keep thinking it might not be a good idea.
I use Hyper Utility. There is nothing better at getting color out of S5 Raw files. Nothing.
Sep 12, 2013 at 12:28 AM
p.3 #8Fujifilm SLR Thread
I might need to re-install it then... Just can't find the editor. I can browse the files and got option to convert RAW, but that's pretty much it. Need to look into this.
I got ZF for my EOS initially. The reason being is that ZE costs at least 30% more than ZF1, and since I am focusing manually anyway I get the benefit of not being tied to one camera system.
Just can't find the editor. I can browse the files and got option to convert RAW, but that's pretty much it. Need to look into this.I got ZF for my EOS initially. The reason being is that ZE costs at least 30% more than ZF1, and since I am focusing manually anyway I get the benefit of not being tied to one camera system.
Sep 12, 2013 at 12:44 AM
p.3 #9Fujifilm SLR Thread
Krosavcheg wrote:
I might need to re-install it then... Just can't find the editor. I can browse the files and got option to convert RAW, but that's pretty much it. Need to look into this.
I got ZF for my EOS initially. The reason being is that ZE costs at least 30% more than ZF1, and since I am focusing manually anyway I get the benefit of not being tied to one camera system.
Do you have a gallery of your S5 Pro work with the Zeiss lenses?
I might need to re-install it then...
Just can't find the editor. I can browse the files and got option to convert RAW, but that's pretty much it. Need to look into this.I got ZF for my EOS initially. The reason being is that ZE costs at least 30% more than ZF1, and since I am focusing manually anyway I get the benefit of not being tied to one camera system.
Do you have a gallery of your S5 Pro work with the Zeiss lenses?
Sep 12, 2013 at 02:36 AM
p.3 #10Fujifilm SLR Thread
Unfortunately, no. I just attached 35/2 for the first time today and went out. I got a borrowed 25/2.8 on the table and plan to test it some time soon....
Sep 12, 2013 at 02:38 AM
p.3 #11Fujifilm SLR Thread
rattymouse wrote:
Nope. It's more technical and more subtle than that.
Okay, which part of what I wrote is controversial here? There are 12 million sensors distributed across the sensor, right? The camera interpolates to produce images, right?
The only thing I can think of that you could argue with is whether or not to shoot it in 6MP or 12MP mode. Note that I didn't say that it has the resolution of a normal Bayer sensor 6MP camera, I simply call it a 6MP camera, because the only other (and worse) choice is 12MP, which I don't like the results from. One could well argue that a normal 6MP camera doesn't actually have 6MP, but I am not attacking that angle.
carstenw wrote
It is still a sensor which samples 12 million different locations in the plane, and interpolates to get the missing data, isn't it. I agree with you that this is essentially a 6MP camera, and would never recommend that anyone use it at the 12MP setting, but I don't think there is the basis for saying that 6 million sites don't count because they don't record much information any more than the Foveon guys can say that my D800 is a 12MP camera.Okay, which part of what I wrote is controversial here? There are 12 million sensors distributed across the sensor, right? The camera interpolates to produce images, right?
The only thing I can think of that you could argue with is whether or not to shoot it in 6MP or 12MP mode. Note that I didn't say that it has the resolution of a normal Bayer sensor 6MP camera, I simply call it a 6MP camera, because the only other (and worse) choice is 12MP, which I don't like the results from. One could well argue that a normal 6MP camera doesn't actually have 6MP, but I am not attacking that angle.
Sep 12, 2013 at 02:58 AM
p.3 #13Fujifilm SLR Thread
Thank you very much!
I really liked the preview generated, and it was a tad difficult to match it in ACR.
I ended up creating an orange gradient and overlaying as luminosity blend. At 100% it creates flatest images possible, so bringing it to around 6-7% did the trick. Then I of course had to balance the colour a bit more...phew....
I really liked the preview generated, and it was a tad difficult to match it in ACR.
I ended up creating an orange gradient and overlaying as luminosity blend. At 100% it creates flatest images possible, so bringing it to around 6-7% did the trick. Then I of course had to balance the colour a bit more...phew....
Sep 12, 2013 at 03:49 AM
p.3 #16Fujifilm SLR Thread
Here is entirely uncorrected shot (only +0.30 on exposure and about +3 to highlight recovery).
What impressed me is the reproduced colour cast caused by the reflective car surface.
http://www.3byk.org/imgposts/finepix5s/DSF4222.jpg
What impressed me is the reproduced colour cast caused by the reflective car surface.
http://www.3byk.org/imgposts/finepix5s/DSF4222.jpg
Sep 12, 2013 at 07:30 AM
p.3 #17Fujifilm SLR Thread
Krosavcheg wrote:
What impressed me is the reproduced colour cast caused by the reflective car surface.
Huh? Are you also in the 3D graphics field, or why would you be impressed by an accurately reproduced colour cast? Nature is massively parallel, physically based
What impressed me is the reproduced colour cast caused by the reflective car surface.
Huh? Are you also in the 3D graphics field, or why would you be impressed by an accurately reproduced colour cast? Nature is massively parallel, physically based
Sep 12, 2013 at 07:47 AM
p.3 #18Fujifilm SLR Thread
Guilty as charged..
I started with Real3D on Amiga and went on to Lightwave...but never really seriously. Though the concepts learned influenced me quite a lot...
In this case I am interested because of the potential model shots in controlled light environments - I would love to have accurate colours and fall off/intensity. Well, accurate to my liking anyway.
I started with Real3D on Amiga and went on to Lightwave...but never really seriously. Though the concepts learned influenced me quite a lot...
In this case I am interested because of the potential model shots in controlled light environments - I would love to have accurate colours and fall off/intensity. Well, accurate to my liking anyway.
Sep 12, 2013 at 08:12 AM
p.3 #19Fujifilm SLR Thread
Haha, funny. Bif is ex-Lightwave, IIRC. I am ex-Softimage, ex-mental images, and now work for NVIDIA, around a product called iray, which you might enjoy
Sep 12, 2013 at 08:25 AM
p.3 #20Fujifilm SLR Thread
Lol, and I installed Maya + ZBrush the other day..
Still wish to free up time for watching Digital Tutors..
I remember my friend working with Softimage - he hated WinNT's guts to the extent of smashing a keyboard a day..but kept fighting on..hahaha
I guess you of all people understand my ramblings about volumetric lighting..
Sorry, haven't heard about iRay, but sounds interesting...
Still wish to free up time for watching Digital Tutors..I remember my friend working with Softimage - he hated WinNT's guts to the extent of smashing a keyboard a day..but kept fighting on..hahaha
I guess you of all people understand my ramblings about volumetric lighting..
Sorry, haven't heard about iRay, but sounds interesting...
Sep 12, 2013 at 08:29 AM