if you want the lever lock then its option one. all my heads have the lever lock including my old Markins M10.
there is a group that likes the screw lock. not really an option for me though. the claim higher security but in reality no more or less then the lever type.
even that is different between the two. The 25 being a much simpler design overall. In addition its one of the few items they make/made that really never caught my fancy.
I've recently changed over to mostly lever locks from screw locks. This was driven by RRS producing a lever lock clamp that auto-adjusts to virtually any plate a couple of years ago. As a user of camera plates from many different manufacturers I've found their self-adjusting lever clamps provides a reliable and secure connection.
There is a built in flexibility to the clamping action allowing for somewhat of a greater tolerance that exists in manufactured plates form various plate makers.
In short it attempts to clamp on less then consistently made products that are out there. Precision isn't everyone's mantra
sjms wrote:
There is a built in flexibility to the clamping action allowing for somewhat of a greater tolerance that exists in manufactured plates form various plate makers.
In short it attempts to clamp on less then consistently made products that are out there. Precision isn't everyone's mantra
Or precision to different standards. As as been famously stated again and again, there are actually quite a number of different "Acra-Swiss-like" standards. E.g., Markins plates are just as "precise", and consistently so, but are just spec'd to different standards.
And, for the record, the RRS level clamps do not engage the Markins plates, and all others engineered to their standards.
So, if functional versatility and not being tied to down to any one manufacturer are really important to you, the screw knobs would be the way to go !
jeetsukumaran wrote:
Or precision to different standards. As as been famously stated again and again, there are actually quite a number of different "Acra-Swiss-like" standards. E.g., Markins plates are just as "precise", and consistently so, but are just spec'd to different standards.
And, for the record, the RRS level clamps do not engage the Markins plates, and all others engineered to their standards.
So, if functional versatility and not being tied to down to any one manufacturer are really important to you, the screw knobs would be the way to go !
You will note that in the past few years
Kirk
hejnar
rrs
wimberly
share the same sizing in addition to a few others
I am only aware of markings doing their own dimensions. Who else is using theirs?
Sometimes it its nice to know that it is made the same way every time.
Yes you are correct that markins has chosen to maintain a different geometry. so that only means they won't fit the RRS lever lock and that's of course is your choice. They do have their own whose design allows adjustment for tension but if you go with that idea and own many varied plates (older ones are an issue) you end up having to adjust for fit each time. In addition giving an adjustability to some users allows for over and under adjustment. As with all tools the use lies with the end user so its the choice that needs to be made.
And in the end you do have the screw. But I personally prefer the lever as it has advantages to my personal and mechanical taste.
Precision manufacture refers to the same size the same way pretty much every time. There are more then a few that are remiss on that sort of thing. Of course that's your choice.
sjms wrote:
You will note that in the past few years
Kirk
hejnar
rrs
wimberly
share the same sizing in addition to a few others
I am only aware of markings doing their own dimensions. Who else is using theirs?
Well, actually, from what I can make out, Markins follows the Arca-Swiss standard. As in the actual original Arca-Swiss standard from Arca-Swiss. As does AcraTech. It is the other manufacturer's who have gone their own way. My source for this is: http://photographylife.com/arca-swiss-quick-release-system. I (via the cited reference) could be wrong. I remember a post on a forum describing in detail the differences in measurements between the different variants of the system, but cannot find it now. I will try to dig it up. If you come across this or anything else that covers the history of this system, please let me know: I find the history of technology interesting, and always good to know where the tools we use come from and why they are what they are!
In any case, you are correct that an increasing number of manufacturer are converging to one of the standards (Kirk, hejnar, etc.). But (a) that is a relatively recent phenomenon and (b) it does not take away from my point that the reason for different plate dimensions are not necessarily due to lack of precision but simply different standards and (c) if you want to maximize your versatility and want your system to be as modular as possible and not be tied down to any manufacturer then a screw knob maximize those optimality criteria.
You are also absolutely correct that the Markins lever quick-release plate is not as slick as the RRS one, in that the latter "auto-adjusts" while the former needs manual adjustment. But as I have now decided to use screw-knobs (to future-proof my system versatility more than any safety concerns, which I honestly think is a wash between the lever vs. screw), then that really is no more an issue for me!
jeetsukumaran wrote:
Well, actually, from what I can make out, Markins follows the Arca-Swiss standard. As in the actual original Arca-Swiss standard from Arca-Swiss. As does AcraTech. It is the other manufacturer's who have gone their own way. My source for this is: http://photographylife.com/arca-swiss-quick-release-system. I (via the cited reference) could be wrong. I remember a post on a forum describing in detail the differences in measurements between the different variants of the system, but cannot find it now. I will try to dig it up. If you come across this or anything else that covers the history of this system, please let me know: I find the history of technology interesting, and always good to know where the tools we use come from and why they are what they are!
In any case, you are correct that an increasing number of manufacturer are converging to one of the standards (Kirk, hejnar, etc.). But (a) that is a relatively recent phenomenon and (b) it does not take away from my point that the reason for different plate dimensions are not necessarily due to lack of precision but simply different standards and (c) if you want to maximize your versatility and want your system to be as modular as possible and not be tied down to any manufacturer then a screw knob maximize those optimality criteria.
You are also absolutely correct that the Markins lever quick-release plate is not as slick as the RRS one, in that the latter "auto-adjusts" while the former needs manual adjustment. But as I have now decided to use screw-knobs (to future-proof my system versatility more than any safety concerns, which I honestly think is a wash between the lever vs. screw), then that really is no more an issue for me! ...Show more →
There is no real AS standard to begin with. So that being said it is a moot point. What RRS did is give it a specific repeatable dimension that others have decided it was in their best interest to use because of the market recognition.I have RRS plates that are from 1991 that are the same dimensions as are ones made today within a margin of error. The original owner of RRS was a very precise and strong minded individual. For me a pleasure to deal
with.
sjms wrote:
There is no real AS standard to begin with. So that being said it is a moot point. What RRS did is give it a specific repeatable dimension that others have decided it was in their best interest to use because of the market recognition.I have RRS plates that are from 1991 that are the same dimensions as are ones made today within a margin of error. The original owner of RRS was a very precise and strong minded individual. For me a pleasure to deal
with.
Well, actually, there was a "real" AS standard to begin with. And still is, if you look at the actual Arca-Swiss manufacturer itself. The problem is the term has lost its meaning because many manufacturers make plates of different dimensions but call them "Arca-Swiss". Arca-Swiss plates, as far as I can tell, have been manufactured to the same precise and consistent dimensions since their inception, though I think the introduction of a second system of quick-release plates may have clouded the issue. It is just that many manufacturers started putting out their own "Arca-like" systems of different standards and calling them all "Arca-Swiss" willy-nilly. I assume they did not create plates following the original AS specs might have been that the documentation of the original Arca-Swiss standards were either not available over the web because, well, the "web" was not quite there yet maybe, or not available at all? Arca-Swiss themselves document this (now):
In either case, there has been no drop or change in AS precision or consistency or standards. The problem is a number of other manufacturers started making plates of different dimensions and spec's and erroneously called them "Arca-Swiss" plates. Or, alternatively, folks who do not find precision and accuracy of information very important started using the term too loosely until it lost all meaning. It was this that created the confusion of multiple standards that we have today. And if you are saying that RRS deliberately came out with their own dimensions (that were different from Arca-Swiss for some reason) so as to be able to have independent consistency, well, power to them, but if they only had not called them Arca-Swiss plates but a more generic term, like "dovetail-clamping-plates" or "jabberwocky" plates or even "RRS-standard dovetail-clamping system", then I think we would be in a better place now.
EDIT: Here is an alternate narrative for the multiple non-compatible standards we are plagued with today:
The third Party Manufacturers like Really Right Stuff, Kirk, Markins, Acratech,
Synway Foto, Photoclam, Foba, Novoflex, Wimberely, Benro/Induro, and I'm sure I
have missed a few, make plates and rails forhe older and larger Classic system.
Actually, AS manufacturing accuracy has been variable at times on their plates over the years.
In addition they have made no attempt to capitalize on that particular market and left it to others. Hence around 1990 RRS came about to fill in that void.
sjms wrote:
Actually, AS manufacturing accuracy has been variable at times on their plates over the years.
Do you have some evidence, references, or any other real (non hearsay) data to confirm this? I am not challenging: I believe you and want to update my internal knowledge base; but before I do and go, for example, repeating this information as truth, I would like to know that I am not repeating rumor or hearsay!
sjms wrote:
In addition they have made no attempt to capitalize on that particular market and left it to others. Hence around 1990 RRS came about to fill in that void.
Yes, but my assertions is that they should not have called their plates "Arca-Swiss" if they were not Arca-Swiss dimensioned and only Arca-Swiss "styled".
Also, I think that if it was some Chinese or Korean manufacturer who had done the same, I suspect lots of folks would be complaining about stealing of ideas or calling them "imprecise knock-offs"!
Yes I do. I originally used AS plates back in 1990 as I used them with my AS B1. Later in attempted use with the lever lock which was usable with all my RRS plates from '91 on had fit issues with the LL as too loose. I could lock it but with relatively low force slide it within the clamp.
This issue of fit was somewhat similar with older Kirk plates. It actually went either way. Somewhat loose to overly snug.
And yes there have been issues online with other unnamed plates too.
The screw type clamp is more forgiving then the RRS lever lock due to its wider range of sizing but the lever lock has some arguably distinct advantages depending on how you look at things.
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Arca-Swiss clamp and plate cross-compatibility is a well-known issue among camera manufacturers. There are dozens of manufacturers in the marketplace and 2 distinctly different variations on the style.
The original Arca-Swiss plate and clamps (as on the Arca-Swiss B1 ballhead) is followed very closely by most Chinese and Pacific Rim manufacturers such as Markins, Giotto, Vanguard, Sunwayfoto, etc. These generally feature a thinner plate (with a shallow V-groove with a 45 degree included angle, so the plate can only be mounted from the bottom into a clamp).
North American manufacturers (Jobu Design, Kirk Enterprises, Really Right Stuff, Acra-Tech) have moved away from the original design and approach a different 'standard'. Plates appear to be commonly sourced from 1.5" wide by 3/8" aluminum stock (give or take) and (usually) have a full 90 degree V-groove (dovetail) on the edges of the plates. This allows the clamps to be installed on the bottom or the top of the plate.
