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Archive 2013 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

grahamb3
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p.4 #1 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

If anyone's interested, Sharpie permanent markers do a good job of blacking out the white manufacturers logo. One may remove the ink with little trouble (returning the logo to like new condition), even after years, with a cotton swab dipped in alcohol.

Graham

Jun 11, 2013 at 08:09 PM

rscheffler
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p.4 #2 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

Coming a bit late to the party, and can't comment on the benefits of the Fuji system never having used it, but did have several weeks with a loaner RX1 alongside my M9 & lenses. What really impressed me about the RX1 most was the Sonnar lens. I don't think I've shot or seen images from others shot with a 35mm lens on full frame that had such nice, smooth, across-the-frame subject/background separation and rendering. Usually, at least with 35mm rangefinder lenses, there's some field curvature towards infinity into the corners resulting in busier/sharper looking background details in those areas, which really bugs me. The Sonnar really does seem to have minimal, if any, field curvature, and is sharp well off center at wide apertures. It means you can have a subject at medium distances and still have appreciable separation from the background. But with it being a Sonnar lens, when subject/background distances are large, the lens's character retains good structure in OOF background objects, so you get the sense of knowing what is back there, without it feeling distracting.

The second most impressive aspect of the RX1 for me was its sensor. Coming from the relatively restricted dynamic range of the M9, where I'm constantly exposing to protect highlights and digging into shadows in post, I was really astonished to be able to overexpose the RX1's files nearly two stops and pull them back in LR4 with what appeared to be no appreciable loss of color and tonal fidelity in the highlights. And I could also really dig into the shadows, if needed. And ISO 1600 or 3200 was never a concern while 6400 was still great.

Given the funds, I would definitely shoot an RX1 & M9 combo. At least for me, the Fuji system doesn't tick all the right boxes. The RX1, despite being somewhat annoying with it's fly-by-wire MF and gradual drop in AF performance as ambient light dims and subject contrast drops, is attractive because of the two points above, and because it's small. It's compromises are minor compared to its class leading lens and sensor.

Being the Leica system fan I am, I'd probably pay the price of the RX1 just for an equally performing 35/2 Sonnar in M mount.

Jun 11, 2013 at 09:57 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #3 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

douglasf13 wrote:
As far as the Zeiss look, I don't really think the RX1 is all that "Zeiss-y," at least in terms of Contax C/Y and older Zeiss lenses. It really almost reminds me more of some of my Leica lenses, at least partially.

In fact, that's one of the things I really like about the RX1 lens. At least the lens on mine does not have that over-the-top Zeiss contrast and color saturation typical of Zeiss. To my eyes, it renders more subtle and softer. The closest comparison for me (which likely would mean little to anyone else) would be the rendering of a classic Schneider lens to a Zeiss. One of my earliest cameras was a TLR Rolleicord with a Schneider Xenar (a 4 element tessar like design) and it had a similar contrast and look as compared to either Rolleicords with Zeiss Tessars or Zeiss Ikons with Tessars (all of which I have owned at some point). The RX1 lens certainly looks nothing like a classic Zeiss Planar, for instance, with regard to rendering.

Jun 11, 2013 at 10:17 PM

Kit Laughlin
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p.4 #4 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

I'm late to this party, too, like Ron. I had an opportunity to hold and play with an RX1 in Singapore when this marvellous little camera was first released, but for me (medium sized guy, with strong hands; I run a gym where rope climbing and the like is what we all do) I found the RX1 simply too small in the body for me. As well, I really like a finder, for framing sure, but mainly for stabilising via the whole body and 30+ years of pro. work shooting much larger cameras.

Like millsart and many others here, I have pretty much owned the full gamut of DSLRs (who will forget the Zeiss/Leica lenses on Canon FF thread?) and all the recent mirrorless cameras (Fuji, Panasonic, etc. etc.), I have to own them to know if they will work for me and to know if I will bond with them, and I just can't ever get that from specs (or holding in a shop, for that matter).

For the RX1 to work for me, I'd need a grip or L-plate, both of which are available. And an OVF could work, but I much would have preferred a high quality EVF. I owned the XE-1 and all its lenses, and I thought its EVF worked well enough to use.

But it's to a larger perspective I want to turn. All the modern gear is good enough, IQ-wise, for the work I now do, which mostly ends up in brochures (so printed relatively small) and the net. And I need video for my work, as much as stills, so this is why I trialled and decided on another Sony, the NEX 6 (I have two). And I am considering getting a NEX 7, just to have one rig capable of taking a mic input. I much prefer the form factor of the NEX 6 and 7 over the RX1, though I know this is very much a personal matter.

And as for lenses�the Sigma 19, 30, and 60/2.8 lenses are excellent on the NEX 6 sensor (thinking stills) and make excellent video too. And adapters allow specialist lenses like the OM 50/3.5 to be used and I have a tilt adapter coming for this lens, too. Macro is part of my work so this has to be factored in.

My point is this: my heart yearns for an RX1; there are many reasons, all of which have been canvassed here, and they are available cheaper in Australia (at $2,999 including the 10% GST we have to pay here, which my business gets back) than buying from B&H, but my head and hands say "NEX 6/7", just because of the excellent (in the case of the 6) EVF and the built-in grip and the incredible flexibility of this system. My 2�'s worth!

Jun 11, 2013 at 11:18 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #5 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

Kit, did you happen to try the RX1 at chest level with an EVF attached and viewed at about a 45 degree angle? I was struggling with the size, grip and overall ergonomics of the RX1 shot at eye-level but soon found it very comfortable to hold and use as above (not so different a hold as I once used with MF).

Jun 11, 2013 at 11:27 PM

Dudewithoutape
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p.4 #6 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

I read the last few comments about the lens.

I forget who off the top of my head but one of the more active members in the Alt forum said that it does remind them of the C/Y 35 1.4 in some of it's rendering (the pop, I believe it was) but the bokeh (and this was agreed by many in the image thread) was more Leica like (smoother than most Zeiss lenses). The lens is quite the beast.

Jun 11, 2013 at 11:32 PM

millsart
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p.4 #7 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

Wouldn't solve a number of your handling issues of course, but if you ever get a chance to check out the RX1 EVF, I'd be interested in your take on it, as I know we've discussed the NEX ones a fair bit a while back.

I've never as much as handled a NEX6 so don't know if they improved the EVF, but I found the NEX7 EVF to actually be pretty bad. I much preferred the lower rez EM-5 one over it. It had good resolution but everything was just so contrasty and overly saturated that it felt like the furthest thing from viewing the scene optically. In my mind, a good EVF can look/feel like a OVF, but with added shooting info. The NEX7 one though just always felt the opposite. Stuff in shadows was so blocked up black that you couldn't really make it out.

I tried the RX1 one at a Sony store last week and while the stated specs are the same, it felt totally different to me. Very bright and near optical like with amazing resolution. Not going to replace an OVF for me yet, as I can still tell a difference, but it seems much better and I didn't hate it. I don't know if the difference in the EVF, or just the way the sensor sends the signal to it or what, but they didn't feel remotely the same.

I don't know if many really would want to spend $450 on an EVF additionally on top of the camera price, I wouldn't, but as a general observation, it really bodes well for any cameras with EVF's as they really are getting better and better each new generation.

Never tried the new Olympus one either, but its probably fantastic as well. How far things have come from the usable, but laggy, XPro1 I was using prevously

Jun 11, 2013 at 11:34 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #8 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

Yep, I absolutely hated to use the NEX-7 EVF. It literally gave me a headache. The RX1 EVF really surprised me as the eye relief and optics are dramatically better than the NEX-7. The color and DR (with effects turned on with lowest contrast/ neutral style) are also noticeably better. It's the first EVF I have used that almost makes me forget about how much I hate them in principle.

Jun 11, 2013 at 11:45 PM

millsart
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p.4 #9 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Yep, I absolutely hated to use the NEX-7 EVF. It literally gave me a headache. The RX1 EVF really surprised me as the eye relief and optics are dramatically better than the NEX-7. The color and DR (with effects turned on with lowest contrast/ neutral style) are also noticeably better. It's the first EVF I have used that almost makes me forget about how much I hate them in principle.

Glad I'm not the only former NEX7 user to notice this difference then. Strange that Sony doesn't market its as being different than the NEX one. They both have the same 2.4 million pixel OLED on paper, but in actual use they felt worlds apart.

Got to admit that I do rather enjoy the 90 degree tilting feature. Seems like it would be this really awkward way to shoot holding a little camera with your head bent downward, but it felt surprisingly natural and probably comes across rather discrete when out in public as I doubt many people give much thought to someone who looks like they are looking down at their camera.

Jun 11, 2013 at 11:55 PM

douglasf13
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p.4 #10 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

I've read that there are some improvements in the EVF, but I wonder how much of it also has to do with the optics, because I preferred the 5N EVF over the 7's, too. The contrast does seem better with the RX1's EVF, but I still returned it, since I couldn't see using it over my OVF.

Jun 12, 2013 at 12:57 AM

ceder
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p.4 #11 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

Well, I was not comparing resolution or IQ, just saying that the full-frame advantage on a fixed f2 lens-camera, like the RX1, probably does not stand out if you put a 23/1.4 lens on an C-APS camera (could be a NEX, could be a Fuji, whatever). So, if one really wants full frame shallow depth, my primary option would be another FF camera than the RX1, and certainly another lens (the zeiss looks nice though), especially considering the price and the likely event that next year, something else will come along... I would wait a year or so, it seems to be a fast evolving field, especially since the poster already owns the X100s and the X-E1 and wanted a bit more of a full-frame look, he could easily use the 23/1.4 when it comes along while waiting for cheaper full-frame small sized cameras that is likely to arrive next year. But of course, if he has money to spend, why not indeed go for the RX1 and sell the X100s.

Jun 12, 2013 at 06:02 AM

Kit Laughlin
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p.4 #12 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

Tariq wrote:

Yep, I absolutely hated to use the NEX-7 EVF. It literally gave me a headache.

Definitely and I have compared the 6 and the 7 side-by-side; if I do get another NEX 7, I will team it with the iKan field monitor (for studio or video use) or use the NEX 6 for stills. Don't believe what the specs say; I have written about this elsewhere, but the NEX 6 EVF is way better to use, and headache free. It has better eye relief, too; for me perfectly useable.

And we already have the iKan; it it simply great to use, for video or macro.

I did seriously consider the 100s, too, and had one ordered locally (all the 100's bugs fixed; great OVF/EVF)�but still, one focal length. And, compared to film days when all cameras worked the same (film, aperture, shutter speed) today's cameras require a lot more thinking to get flow in work capacity, so I am going to stick with the NEXs until the FF version come along. The NEX menu systems defy logic (and this was my work for many years) but once set up, need almost no menu diving, apart from Format.

@ millsart: I will definitely try the RX1 EVF when next I can; I feel it's likely to be closer to the 6's than the 7's.

Edited on Jun 12, 2013 at 04:15 PM · View previous versions

Jun 12, 2013 at 06:50 AM

Brody LeBlanc
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p.4 #13 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

Well, in case anyone is curious, I ended up selling the X100s and a few other accessories to get the RX1.
I'll probably keep the X-E1 and maybe pick up the 56/1.2 when it drops, but other than that I think the RX1 will suit my daily uses.
Though more shallow depth is a nice plus, I also just really like the color, sharpness, and pop that the RX1 lens has. I've always been in love with the Zeiss look (more so than Fuji, Leica, Voigt, or NIkon) and couldn't be happier with having a compact zeiss 35/2 to shoot with on a FF camera.

I'll be getting the EVF soon enough but I'm also interested to try out the little Voigt OVF.
I'd definitely be interested in it because I'd be able to also use the thumb rest at the same time.

Jun 12, 2013 at 02:13 PM

douglasf13
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p.4 #14 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

Brody LeBlanc wrote:
Well, in case anyone is curious, I ended up selling the X100s and a few other accessories to get the RX1.
I'll probably keep the X-E1 and maybe pick up the 56/1.2 when it drops, but other than that I think the RX1 will suit my daily uses.
Though more shallow depth is a nice plus, I also just really like the color, sharpness, and pop that the RX1 lens has. I've always been in love with the Zeiss look (more so than Fuji, Leica, Voigt, or NIkon) and couldn't be happier with having a compact zeiss 35/2 to...Show more →

Yeah, coming from the X100s, I say buy the Voigtlander OVF from a place with a return policy, so that you can try it out. I was surprised how usable it is, despite being "dumb." It becomes easy to estimate the AF box in the OVF with a little practice.

Jun 12, 2013 at 02:33 PM

Dudewithoutape
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p.4 #15 · Switching From Fuji to Sony?

Congrats!!

Jun 12, 2013 at 02:47 PM

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