I posted this in the People forum where I spend most of my time on FM... then realized I probably really needed to hear from you guys (and girls). Honestly, I don't expect this is going to be the last complaint I ever get, I think to some degree it's bound to happen. In this case, it just didn't work on a number of levels.
The shoot started at 10 a.m. on a bright, sunny morning on Sunday. I have speedlights and a softbox for them, but I don't like using speedlights to fill facial shadows on a mid-day sunny shoot. As best I can, I turn people away from the sun -- but that limits the direction you can shoot.
So I shifted my focus to eyes-closed, romantic shots -- but that wasn't really what this couple was about. They were fun and goofy. She coaches competitive cheerleading. When they changed clothes, she put on a dress that in certain poses, was completely unflattering. I probably shouldn't have even put those in the gallery. But honestly, I wasn't happy with the majority of the shoot. We ended up on a riverwalk with a bridge over the river, but the sun was in the wrong direction and there were constantly people walking/running/biking. Didn't they know I had a photoshoot going on?
I did get a few shots that I liked, and I'm posting them here. I'm trying to work out a re-shoot, but her fiance just got a job in California and they're actually leaving today to move there.
if you knew that they were goofy before you started the shoot... then you should have kept that in mind. If you
didn't, then there was a communication problem.
I agree about a communication problem BUT these are not terrible.
I could see them complaining if they were not "artsy" or "unique" enough but they look well exposed etc.
good luck with the reschedule!
You never actually mention the complaints that she had....was it just that they preferred a more "goofy" kinda style?? I feel that's kinda tough sometimes, b/c people often get camera shy, and while they may be goofy people, sometimes that doesn't translate into photos....depending on how goofy they are, or what their brand of humor is, ya know?.....They may be goofy in things they SAY, not really things they do.....so that's a tough one.....
so was that the only complaint? or were their others?? How many are you NOT showing us that you delivered? Just a general question....
I'm with jprezant. It sounds like you kinda' had an idea about their personalities, and you should have played into that.
Additionally, if you're not terribly happy with them, then you kinda' can't expect them to be.
I always tell people, "Listen, we don't change our style for anyone. But we do tailor it toward your personality. If you have a backyard wedding, a downtown wedding, outdoors or indoors, summer or winter, morning or evening, and you're goofy or serious, fun and playful or down to business, we love working with you and want the photos to reflect that!"
I've probably done 40-50 paid e-sessions the past year without a complaint, so it's not like I'm consistently not delivering the goods to the clients. Are you guys serious? You've never had a miscommunication and not delivered exactly what the client wanted? That's pretty impressive, as not all clients are really great about communicating exactly what they want.
I'm not going to blame the client as it doesn't really matter, but I thought I was getting exactly as they wanted, and checked with them constantly throughout the shoot to confirm that. What I shot is consistent with my style, but I do adapt when the clients go a more silly direction. I don't care, it's about them, not me.
I delivered my usual 200 or so shots in a gallery for them to choose their 15 favorites, as in this case. My wife, who was with me on the shoot, thinks it was more of a body issue -- but I disagree, I think it was more of a communication/style issue.
They seem fine, not great or anything, but not bad. As you've said yourself, if you knew there were fun people, you really should have gone with that from the beginning.
Someone mentioned it on here last week, but as a minimum you should always flatter your clients. If you don't feel you were doing that , then you shouldn't have taken the photo, or shouldn't have delivered the shot.
friscoron wrote:
I've probably done 40-50 paid e-sessions the past year without a complaint, so it's not like I'm consistently not delivering the goods to the clients. Are you guys serious? You've never had a miscommunication and not delivered exactly what the client wanted? That's pretty impressive, as not all clients are really great about communicating exactly what they want.
I'm not going to blame the client as it doesn't really matter, but I thought I was getting exactly as they wanted, and checked with them constantly throughout the shoot to confirm that. What I shot is consistent with my style, but I do adapt when the clients go a more silly direction. I don't care, it's about them, not me.
I delivered my usual 200 or so shots in a gallery for them to choose their 15 favorites, as in this case. My wife, who was with me on the shoot, thinks it was more of a body issue -- but I disagree, I think it was more of a communication/style issue. ...Show more →
Eh? Why did you come here? I don't think anyone is saying they're perfect or have never made a mistake. They're giving feedback / suggestions, which is why I assume you came here.
Not an entirely unrelated question, but do your clients really need 200 images from an e-session? What the hell are they going to do with all those images? You could try focusing on absolute quality. If you'd delivered 50 flattering images then maybe the issue wouldn't exist.
Sometimes clients can tell me all day in words what vibe they want for their session, but the best thing I have found is to have them provide concrete examples of the style they prefer. Obviously, if they've hired you they already like your work and the way you have captured past clients, but I have had a few clients share their pinterest board with me and I love it. Of course I never copy another photographer's work, but it's great to get inspiration directly from the client.
Like JP said, you will have more reserved clients and then you'll have more outgoing ones, and I provide instruction throughout the shoot based on that.
Is there a reason that you scheduled the shoot during a time of day that would hinder you?
Agreed, Beth, and this client was planning to provide some shots for me but the fiance recently accepted a job offer and they've been focused on moving to California. She acknowledged that in her email.
As for time of day, my wife has begun handling the clients and she understands pretty clearly (even more so now, I'd wager) how much easier it is to shoot at the end of the day. So I trust there was a good reason to go with that time. My schedule is pretty tight, and the clients were leaving for California, so I think we probably didn't have a lot of options.
Tough one to gauge mate. From a C&C perspective I just can't get on board with 1, 2 or 3 at all. 4 to 8 are pretty nice shots and whilst you say they like 9, to me the overall feel of that shot is quite amateur snapshot like.
I think there are inconsistencies with the processing across the set, but as stated earlier you haven't really explained what the complaint actually is so its hard to provide our views on this really. If its just a style thing then I feel for you as you explained that you were constantly checking with them during the shoot. If they didn't steer you towards anything different then you can't be held accountable. If however they aren't happy with the processing of the set, for example, then perhaps we can offer our views, but more importantly maybe the set could be reprocessed.
In summary, get your client to be specific about the issues, if she hasn't already, and maybe give us a clue as to her complaints.....
friscoron wrote:
I've probably done 40-50 paid e-sessions the past year without a complaint, so it's not like I'm consistently not delivering the goods to the clients. Are you guys serious? You've never had a miscommunication and not delivered exactly what the client wanted? That's pretty impressive, as not all clients are really great about communicating exactly what they want.
I'm not going to blame the client as it doesn't really matter, but I thought I was getting exactly as they wanted, and checked with them constantly throughout the shoot to confirm that. What I shot is consistent with my style, but I do adapt when the clients go a more silly direction. I don't care, it's about them, not me.
I delivered my usual 200 or so shots in a gallery for them to choose their 15 favorites, as in this case. My wife, who was with me on the shoot, thinks it was more of a body issue -- but I disagree, I think it was more of a communication/style issue. ...Show more →
Dude. I don't think anyone is attacking you so why are you getting defensive? I have certainly had complaints
before. I'm human. I make mistakes, even if the blame doesn't fall 100% on my shoulders. I have definitely
been in the same exact situation as you, and it was because of communication problems. Learn from your
mistake and move on.
I really think you would benefit from editing your gallery from 200 to around 50 or less, especially for an e-session. If you spent a little more time on 20 photos that were great, instead of using that same chunk of time to lightly edit 200, the overall impression of your package might be better received by the client.
edit: I forgot to mention that the photos look great. The eyes closed photos their expressions seem to be battling the sun, or slightly uncomfortable, but the others are all nice and flattering.
It doesn't really add up for me. They are pretty formally dressed for a "fun" e-shoot, IMO. And the one shot that she likes, she looks, shall we say "healthy" in, so I don't think it's a body issue. I don't know man, I think they probably have way too much going on, these shots aren't bad, they are not artistic or very dramatic, maybe that's what they were looking for?? Are you shooting the wedding?
I wouldn't re- shoot as it seems like they're looking towards totally different style. I see your photos as good one with #9 my least fav. If it'd be me, well I'll offer the return minus my expense and tell 'em to find another photog that they'll like.
Brian Virts wrote:
It doesn't really add up for me. They are pretty formally dressed for a "fun" e-shoot, IMO. And the one shot that she likes, she looks, shall we say "healthy" in, so I don't think it's a body issue. I don't know man, I think they probably have way too much going on, these shots aren't bad, they are not artistic or very dramatic, maybe that's what they were looking for?? Are you shooting the wedding?
yeah..kinda too much BS going...nah.. I wouldn't want to deal with them anymore.
Brian Virts wrote:
It doesn't really add up for me. They are pretty formally dressed for a "fun" e-shoot, IMO. And the one shot that she likes, she looks, shall we say "healthy" in, so I don't think it's a body issue. I don't know man, I think they probably have way too much going on, these shots aren't bad, they are not artistic or very dramatic, maybe that's what they were looking for?? Are you shooting the wedding?
Yeah, they were not dressed for fun, and in fact I talked about doing things to swirl the dress and she mentioned that she normally wore shorts under her dresses but didn't today. But you have to keep in mind she coaches cheerleaders, so they're constantly thinking thin. She's not plump, she's -- as you said -- very healthy. Yes, I am shooting the wedding and I'm actually 100% confident we'll work it out in a re-shoot.
jprezant wrote:
Dude. I don't think anyone is attacking you so why are you getting defensive? I have certainly had complaints
before. I'm human. I make mistakes, even if the blame doesn't fall 100% on my shoulders. I have definitely
been in the same exact situation as you, and it was because of communication problems. Learn from your
mistake and move on.
Sorry... just the comment from ziffl3 -- "a pro would make it work" -- got under my skin a bit.
It opens me up when I put it out here to this forum, but I was hoping to get some feedback that would help me learn from this experience.
