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Archive 2013 · Adobe kills standalone software

  
 
akul
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p.12 #1 · Adobe kills standalone software


15Bit wrote:
I'm a little curious about what is so "cloud"y about this suite. You install the software on your local computer, run it on your local computer and process files which are stored on your local computer. Is "Creative Cloud" anything more than just an internet authentication and update service?


I say it is more than that. It is becoming consumer rights issue. When it is cloud, you are always force to be 'up to date'. With subscription, Adobe will fool themselves to 'update' with unusable, half baked 'new features' to justify the overpriced program. We will be forced to live with those 'Features' we would rather avoid and wait until the next release, so kinks are worked out. I don't believe we can avoid those with this. ( May be this has been alread discussed. )

The bigger issue I am extremely annoyd about is how dare they say we won't 'own' the software after paying so much money, as that 'belongs to them'. How dare. I passionately dislike the whole concept, and hope for the best, this fails miserably.



May 08, 2013 at 08:39 PM
Eyeball
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p.12 #2 · Adobe kills standalone software


akul wrote:
I say it is more than that. It is becoming consumer rights issue. When it is cloud, you are always force to be 'up to date'. With subscription, Adobe will fool themselves to 'update' with unusable, half baked 'new features' to justify the overpriced program. We will be forced to live with those 'Features' we would rather avoid and wait until the next release, so kinks are worked out. I don't believe we can avoid those with this. ( May be this has been alread discussed. )


You can choose not to apply available updates (although you will still be paying for them). Here is the Adobe answer straight out of the CC FAQ:

You are not required to install any new version of the desktop applications available in Creative Cloud. You can continue using your current version of the product as long as you have an active membership. You have flexibility on when you install a new release to take advantage of new product features, if you choose to do so.

akul wrote:
The bigger issue I am extremely annoyd about is how dare they say we won't 'own' the software after paying so much money, as that 'belongs to them'. How dare. I passionately dislike the whole concept, and hope for the best, this fails miserably.


The problem is that there is a segment of Adobe's customer base that is ecstatic with the new model. The break-even seems to be when a little over two applications are in use. If you're a heavy Adobe user of three or more products then it's probably a positive thing, at least for now - particularly if you're a business that is less concerned about the lack of a perpetual license. It will be interesting to see if even businesses regret giving up their ability to easily vote with their wallets in the future though.





May 08, 2013 at 09:06 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.12 #3 · Adobe kills standalone software


Eyeball wrote:
You can choose not to apply available updates (although you will still be paying for them). Here is the Adobe answer straight out of the CC FAQ:

You are not required to install any new version of the desktop applications available in Creative Cloud. You can continue using your current version of the product as long as you have an active membership. You have flexibility on when you install a new release to take advantage of new product features, if you choose to



Yet, here they say something slightly different (note the last highlighted sentence):

Myth #5: I will be forced to always run the latest version of the software

You are not forced to upgrade. You can continue to run which ever versions of the software that you want until YOU are ready to upgrade. This is crucial for workflows that involve working with clients or vendors that may not be on the latest versions of the software. You can continue using your current version of the product for one full year after the subsequent version is released.

http://blogs.adobe.com/dreamweaver/2013/03/5-myths-about-adobe-creative-cloud.html



May 08, 2013 at 09:13 PM
naturephoto1
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p.12 #4 · Adobe kills standalone software


I don't like this at all and I hope that Adobe will reconsider.

I am no Photoshop expert by any means, but I have had Photoshop for a long time since Photoshop 4. That is 4 and not CS4.

I have purchased many many upgrades since the my full blown program including purchasing most recently CS5/5.5 at the end of 2011 and CS6 at the end of 2012.

I have also recently upgraded from LR2 to LR3 and most recently to LR4/4.4. I will upgrade to LR5 probably sometime later this summer.

But, I really have to think hard about what to do with this new CC subscription.

I am not too happy having to be on-line to access and to work in Photoshop. Then there are the questions regarding the Adobe Server (s) slowing down due to traffic and even crashing. Add that to being away from home taking photos for an extended periods of time and not having access to the internet. You have to download all of those digital RAW and possibly JPEG files to the native software for the camera (or something else). But....

Then there is my Printer of 18 1/2 years, Bill Nordstrom, I am not sure how he is going to deal with having to do all of the final work (for my imagesand everyone else's in the cloud.

Rich

Edited on May 08, 2013 at 09:27 PM · View previous versions



May 08, 2013 at 09:26 PM
Peter Figen
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p.12 #5 · Adobe kills standalone software


"I say it is more than that. It is becoming consumer rights issue. When it is cloud, you are always force to be 'up to date'. "

As has been pointed out, this is simply not true.

"The bigger issue I am extremely annoyd about is how dare they say we won't 'own' the software after paying so much money, as that 'belongs to them'. How dare. I passionately dislike the whole concept, and hope for the best, this fails miserably."

As much as I don't like what Adobe is doing, I like it even less when people don't understand that they never ever "owned" the software in the first place. You do own the disc you bought it on, if you even got one, but you're only licensing the use of the product. Read the End User License Agreement, with the key word License.

It's exactly the same as someone licensing a photograph to use for an advertisement or CD cover or whatever. They don't own the photo, just the license to use it for that intended purpose. Adobe is changing the way they license their software - the software that they own the copyright to. They have every right to do that and you have every right to vote with your pocketbook and use a competing product. If you can find one.



May 08, 2013 at 09:26 PM
akul
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p.12 #6 · Adobe kills standalone software




With a box version, when 'new version' does not work from whatever the reason, you can roll back to older version. Or, you can keep several iteration of old versions on one computer at once. Does the subscription allow such? I would be surprised, as it may appear you would need more than one license to keep 'old' version.



The problem is that there is a segment of Adobe's customer base that is ecstatic with the new model. The break-even seems to be when a little over two applications are in use. If you're a heavy Adobe user of three or
...Show more

This only works for 'business', how about individuals? Once dust settles, we will see whether the 'happy crowd' was the majority, or the 'upset crows' was the majority, although, to me, it is not about which crowd is bigger. It is an ethical / moral issue. I only see greed in this attitude which infuriates me.



May 08, 2013 at 09:37 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.12 #7 · Adobe kills standalone software


naturephoto1 wrote:
I don't like this at all and I hope that Adobe will reconsider.

I am no Photoshop expert by any means, but I have had Photoshop for a long time since Photoshop 4. That is 4 and not CS4.

I have purchased many many upgrades since the my full blown program including purchasing most recently CS5/5.5 at the end of 2011 and CS6 at the end of 2012.

I have also recently upgraded from LR2 to LR3 and most recently to LR4/4.4. I will upgrade to LR5 probably sometime later this summer.

But, I really have to think hard about what to do with
...Show more

I don't like this new CC model at all but I think you have a few misconceptions. From what I have read, you can go up to 99 days without being connected to the internet (if you have the 1 yr subscription). The software still resides on your computer so the only Adobe server issue I can think of is if it screws up authentication when it's time to check your subscription status. For myself, I will not go along with this scheme until they offer a perpetual license option. I have been using Photoshop since 1994 and it would be sad to part ways over a stupid marketing mistake by a bunch of bean counters!


Edited on May 08, 2013 at 09:44 PM · View previous versions



May 08, 2013 at 09:41 PM
Spyro P.
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p.12 #8 · Adobe kills standalone software


Tom K. wrote:
Scott Bourne says you're a hater: http://photofocus.com/2013/05/08/10-reasons-the-haters-are-mad-about-adobe-creative-cloud/

Please keep an eye on what the major players are saying about this Adobe move to the could. So far Scott Kelby and Matt Klezkowski are in Adobe apologist mode. Waiting for other major industry forces to weigh in.

$2bn in marketing/sales budget is A LOT of money



May 08, 2013 at 09:43 PM
akul
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p.12 #9 · Adobe kills standalone software


Peter Figen wrote:
As much as I don't like what Adobe is doing, I like it even less when people don't understand that they never ever "owned" the software in the first place. You do own the disc you bought it on, if you even got one, but you're only licensing the use of the product. Read the End User License Agreement, with the key word License.

It's exactly the same as someone licensing a photograph to use for an advertisement or CD cover or whatever. They don't own the photo, just the license to use it for that intended purpose. Adobe
...Show more

I am well aware of the current 'legal' stand point, that does not mean I agree. Until 2001, mixed marriage was 'illegal in some US state, that does not mean I would ever agree to such law. There are laws that is dormant and not really 'practiced' and we let it stay, however once provoked, it can become an issue. It can be fully debatable in supreme court from my point of view.



May 08, 2013 at 09:45 PM
naturephoto1
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p.12 #10 · Adobe kills standalone software


Tariq Gibran wrote:
I don't like this new CC model at all but I think you have a few misconceptions. From what I have read, you can go up to 99 days without being connected to the internet (if you have the 1 yr subscription). The software still resides on your computer so the only Adobe server issue I can think of is if it screws up authentication when it's time to check your subscription status. For myself, I will not go along with this scheme until they offer a perpetual license option. I have been using Photoshop since 1994 and it
...Show more

Thanks for correcting my misconception of the way that the Cloud subscription works.

Rich



May 08, 2013 at 09:46 PM
Eyeball
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p.12 #11 · Adobe kills standalone software


akul wrote:
With a box version, when 'new version' does not work from whatever the reason, you can roll back to older version. Or, you can keep several iteration of old versions on one computer at once. Does the subscription allow such? I would be surprised, as it may appear you would need more than one license to keep 'old' version.


Good question and one that occurred to me right after I posted my previous response. I don't know the answer. I would just point out that it is not exactly easy to do roll-backs of updates with Adobe's existing perpetual license software. Of course in that case you can always re-install from the DVD or electronic download. A CC user concerned about that might want to invest in something like Norton Ghost, just in case.



May 08, 2013 at 09:49 PM
akul
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p.12 #12 · Adobe kills standalone software


Eyeball wrote:
Good question and one that occurred to me right after I posted my previous response. I don't know the answer. I would just point out that it is not exactly easy to do roll-backs of updates with Adobe's existing perpetual license software. Of course in that case you can always re-install from the DVD or electronic download. A CC user concerned about that might want to invest in something like Norton Ghost, just in case.


Or apple 'time machine'. or avoid it like a plague. Software companies don't fix bugs these days, they only put more 'features' and pretend they covered the old problems anyway. The way I see it, is that they lack in creativity, they fear aging market and lack of growth, so they decided to raise the taxes and punish us small honest users !!



May 08, 2013 at 09:56 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.12 #13 · Adobe kills standalone software


Eyeball wrote:
Good question and one that occurred to me right after I posted my previous response. I don't know the answer. I would just point out that it is not exactly easy to do roll-backs of updates with Adobe's existing perpetual license software. Of course in that case you can always re-install from the DVD or electronic download. A CC user concerned about that might want to invest in something like Norton Ghost, just in case.


Adobe has said CC can reside alongside CS6 on the same computer. Who knows what the case might be with everything after that.

The big picture here is that the user is loosing control - and must put trust and pay money to Adobe forever to leave them with a semblance of control. The trust part is a difficult pill to swallow given how Adobe is treating current customers. What happens if Adobe says as above in their blog post - upgrade when you want but no longer than 1 yr after a new release...and such a software upgrade forces a hardware upgrade and/or additional software upgrades? This loss of user control (over software that resides on their system and even files created with such software) is at the heart of the issue. That's something I'm not comfortable giving up - nor paying someone to do so.



May 08, 2013 at 10:14 PM
Lovesong
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p.12 #14 · Adobe kills standalone software


Peter Figen wrote:
It's exactly the same as someone licensing a photograph to use for an advertisement or CD cover or whatever. They don't own the photo, just the license to use it for that intended purpose. Adobe is changing the way they license their software - the software that they own the copyright to. They have every right to do that and you have every right to vote with your pocketbook and use a competing product. If you can find one.


While I agree with the fact that software licensing, as per the EULA, state that you don't own the software, I think there are several things that differentiate it from this latest model. First off, you can "own" a copy of the software, and put it on a piece of hardware of your choice. Right now I'm staring at a boxed version of CS1, sitting on my shelf. If I wanted to, I can go on ebay tonight, get a G5, and install that software, and basically have the same setup as I did 5 years ago. I can also go on craigslist, make an add about this copy of CS1 I have, and tomorrow I can hand it to someone in exchange for some (small) sum of cash. I can also (and given the latest news from Adobe, the most likely thing to happen) open the box up, use the manual to start a fire in my fire pit, and use the CDs as coasters. This is the point of ownership, and not having a virtual rental.

The analogy with photography you gave is close, but there is a better example- prints. From what I've seen of your work in the forums, you are probably the de facto expert in scanning (some of your work is beautiful, BTW) with Howtek drum scanners, and I would assume printing goes hand in hand with a good scan. In the old Adobe model, a customer would come to you, look at your work and buy a print, should they choose. They can then go home, put it up on their wall, and have it hang there for generations. Yes the picture was still technically yours, but they had print that was theirs to enjoy on the wall, put in the attic, burn it or sell it. Under CC, it's like you're renting a digital frame- they can have this picture, as long as they continue to pay the monthly bill. When they skip a payment, not only does the picture disappear, but the digital frame enters a self-destruction sequence, so you can't sell it for scrap metal.

This is just a shitshow on Adobe's part. I use three of their designer premium applications on a daily basis, and I'm actually rooting that Apple or Phase One would either expand the capabilities of Aperture/Capture1, or develop some alternative to PS (though I still have a boxed copy of Shake for compositing... which I own... and can install on my computer whenever I want).



May 08, 2013 at 10:32 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.12 #15 · Adobe kills standalone software


^^What you're selling of course is the transfer of rights (from yourself to someone else) to intellectual property (the software) that just happens to reside on physical media of one sort or another.


May 08, 2013 at 10:42 PM
AhamB
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p.12 #16 · Adobe kills standalone software


philip_pj wrote:
Only now there is not much between the top RCs and PS is very mature at the CS6 'end point'...and cameras are getting closer to perfection, makers are doing more with software profiling, the majors did not fall for the DNG thing.


Isn't DNG an open standard? I'd think the 'majors' (meaning Canikon et al I presume?) didn't fall for DNG and decided to stay with their proprietary formats in order to keep some advantages over the competition.



May 08, 2013 at 10:45 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.12 #17 · Adobe kills standalone software


Well, Lloyd has posted some pretty scary, draconian information about Adobe's CC license agreement (that requires your date of birth). Man, seriously?

"11.4 The Software may automatically download and install updates from Adobe. These updates are designed to improve, enhance and further develop the Services and may take the form of bug fixes, enhanced functions, new Software modules, and completely new versions. You agree to receive such updates (and permit Adobe to deliver these to you with or without your knowledge) as part of your use of the Services. "

"15.1 Adobe, in its sole discretion, may (but has no obligation to) monitor or review the Services and Materials at any time. Without limiting the foregoing, Adobe shall have the right, in its sole discretion, to remove any of Your Content for any reason (or no reason), including if it violates the Terms or any Law. "

"17. Advertising and Your Content.

You agree that Adobe may display advertisements adjacent to Your Content, and you agree that you are not entitled to any compensation.

The manner, mode, and extent of advertising or other revenue generating models pursued by Adobe on or in conjunction with the Services and/or Your Content are subject to change without specific notice to you."

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1-Adobe-birth-date.html

There is also more:
http://www.digilloyd.com/



May 08, 2013 at 11:17 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.12 #18 · Adobe kills standalone software


AWESOME!!!!!!


May 08, 2013 at 11:21 PM
aleksanderpolo
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p.12 #19 · Adobe kills standalone software


18. All your base are belong to us


May 08, 2013 at 11:40 PM
Peter Figen
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p.12 #20 · Adobe kills standalone software


"I can also go on craigslist, make an add about this copy of CS1 I have, and tomorrow I can hand it to someone in exchange for some (small) sum of cash."

Actually, if you used your copy of CS (1) as the basis for upgrade pricing for a subsequent version, then you can't legally sell that copy, as the license for that copy effectively gets transferred to the new copy. You can still use any version in your possession but you can't sell an earlier one. That is a clear violation of the EULA.

" The analogy with photography you gave is close, but there is a better example- prints. From what I've seen of your work in the forums, you are probably the de facto expert in scanning (some of your work is beautiful, BTW) with Howtek drum scanners, and I would assume printing goes hand in hand with a good scan. In the old Adobe model, a customer would come to you, look at your work and buy a print, should they choose. They can then go home, put it up on their wall, and have it hang there for generations. Yes the picture was still technically yours, but they had print that was theirs to enjoy on the wall, put in the attic, burn it or sell it. Under CC, it's like you're renting a digital frame- they can have this picture, as long as they continue to pay the monthly bill."

You have it sort of right - the part of me knowing how to make killer scans, but there's more. When you sell a print to someone, the print DOES belong to them - to display, to put in their attic, to throw away or even to sell, but what they can't do is sell that image to a third party to advertise or market anything. They own the physical print, not the right to reproduce it or sublicense it. In this way, it's virtually the same as Adobe's previous licensing model.

Again, the last analogy is not really right either. If you end your subscription to CC, you can't use the software anymore, but nothing at all happens to your files. There are other programs that can read most of them and you can send them almost anywhere to output any number of ways. The new subscription model is more like leasing a car with no option to purchase at the end of the lease because there is no end in sight. That is the problem with this, and that you never are given a viable choice in the matter. It's my way or the highway and a giant fuck you to end users.



May 08, 2013 at 11:46 PM
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