p.4 #1 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
15Bit wrote:
How much do you think the Canon batteries really cost? I'm pretty sure you are trusting your $3000 camera to a $15 battery. It just has a $65 Canon sticker on it...
Well if you look at it that way, it's not really a $3000. camera either, more like $1000 to $1500 camera, if that.
The safety IC in the battery is likely less than $1. as is the molded plastic and metal contacts. the primary cost is the lithium cells of which there are 2x at roughly $4 - $5. in high volumes. So $15. (or less) is about right.
But it is folly to look at value that way, it makes more sense to judge value by the price the market will bear (ie. used sale).
p.4 #2 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
Access wrote:
Well if you look at it that way, it's not really a $3000. camera either, more like $1000 to $1500 camera, if that.
Not really - no-one else is selling a $3000 camera equivalent at $1500.
What goes on here is that where people like Sterlingtek take a $5 base cost and mark it up to $15 or $20, Canon take the same $5 base cost and mark it up to $70 or $80. Canon batteries are not using some massively different and more expensive chemistry.
For that extra money you get the warranty that if the battery does suffer a manufacturing related defect in the first year of ownership, Canon will cover you. The cynic in me does wonder whether that warranty is worth the paper on which it is printed and whether Canon will just try to weasel out of it by suggesting you mistreated the battery and/or camera and caused the fault yourself.
p.4 #4 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
15Bit wrote:
What goes on here is that where people like Sterlingtek take a $5 base cost and mark it up to $15 or $20, Canon take the same $5 base cost and mark it up to $70 or $80. Canon batteries are not using some massively different and more expensive chemistry.
I think it's a bit more than $5, typically in situations where lots of alternatives for the same item exist, the market is pretty efficient at creating the lowest price possible (which is roughly 30%-40% gross for an electronic item).
You are right there is probably not a huge difference in the actual cells used, but that's only part of the equation. Lithium batteries are generally safe _when operated within certain parameters_. It's really the other electronics in the battery that make it safe (or not), even though that IC is likely $1. or less.
p.4 #7 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
OK, I read the first 3 pages. Sorry, but I just couldn't read the rest. Don't know if this has been listed but one item I didn't see (good example, picture of battery above)was the fact that the real difference is if it is UL tested or not. No way I would use anything if it doesn't have the UL logo.
There were a couple different revisions of LP-E6 batteries. The very early ones either didn't have a chip or didn't have the correct chip. They gave the error message you see on your camera.
However the later batteries were chipped and worked identically to the OEM battery. These also worked perfectly with the 5DIII (up until now). These are the batteries that I have.
Canon seems to have gone out if it's way to hassle users about these batteries now.
p.4 #9 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
I would never use 3rd party batteries as 1D bodies are way too expensive to risk on even a remote chance of failure/damage. I can definitely see people getting them for lower priced bodies though as they are probably far more price conscious.
In the end this is probably another one of those debates like protective filters.
p.4 #10 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
A few thoughts:
1. Starting with the 5D2, the battery had to "talk to" the camera and report various parameters in addition to how much charge there is left. This was part of the issue with the first 5D2 third-party batteries, I believe, and it wouldn't surprise me if something like this is going on with the report here on the 5D3 battery. (That's why I earlier asked if maybe there actually is a so-called communication problem with the camera and battery.)
2. I won't bore you with the whole long story, but while I had really great experiences with third-party batteries on the 5D (owned several and they performed at least as well as Canon-branded batteries), I had very poor experiences with third party batteries for the 5D2. I purchased from one of the reliable retailers, the same one I had used for the 5D, and never did get a battery that worked as well as the Canon branded batteries on the 5D2.
3. I have no direct experience with the 5D3.
4. I will use third-party batteries still for some things. For example, I have several Fuji batteries for my X-E1, but I also have one third-party battery (and charger) for those very rare situations when I might need a back-up.
5. Since the story on the third-party batteries for Canon 5D2 and later is a bit dodgy - a few claim great experience and others, including me, are certain that we have had bad experiences - it seems like a false economy to me to get the third-party batteries for anything but emergency backup. Yes, they do cost less, but when I rely on many thousands of dollars of camera, lens, and other camera gear to make my photographs, the potential downside to the less reliably batteries makes the potential savings of certainly less than $100 dollars seem not worth it.
(Yes, the three third-party LP-E6 batteries that I purchased were "chipped" and bought from a vendor that I had others had felt was reliable. One was DOA, one appeared to work but did not properly charge, and the third worked buy supplied less than half the charge of the Canon-branded batteries. I still have the last of those, but only use it as a last resort in emergencies.)
p.4 #11 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
gdanmitchell wrote:
2. ...while I had really great experiences with third-party batteries on the 5D (owned several and they performed at least as well as Canon-branded batteries), I had very poor experiences with third party batteries for the 5D2.
Dan
I have the same experience. I recently bought four more Canon LP-E6 batteries to power a SmallHD DP6 portable HD monitor (and a 5DII). Henry's has had them on sale for $70 for at least a couple of months. It's a much better price than it used to be.
p.4 #13 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
My non-chipped 5d2 batteries continue to outperform the original battery. The only annoying part is that the original and 3rd party (non-chipped) use exclusive chargers.
My Fuji X-E1 battery and 3rd party batteries are interchangeable in all ways, and I can't tell a difference.
I'm guessing that with the 5D3 Canon has one or more authentication steps for communicating to the battery, rather than chip vs no chip.
Ultimately, many-- if not most-- 3rd party batteries come out of the same companies/factories tooled for the OEM part. Sometimes the 3rd party batteries are better, because the battery for the camera/device is usually "frozen" with specs/technologies introduced at the time the device was, whereas the 3rd party batteries might include more efficient components/materials. The flipside is that 3rd party batteries might include cheaper materials too.
I've yet to hear of 3rd party batteries destroying devices at any rate higher than OEM. In fact, it's the OEMs (not camera makers to my knowledge though) that have had burning battery syndrome. That includes Boeing . And while it might void a warranty, there's no way the device-maker is going to know after the fact that you used a 3rd party battery.
The main risk is getting a battery that doesn't last as long, or doesn't take as many charge cycles. My experience, however, tends to be that the 3rd party batteries can be rated for higher MAh... and tend to last longer.
p.4 #14 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
deepbluejh wrote:
There were a couple different revisions of LP-E6 batteries. The very early ones either didn't have a chip or didn't have the correct chip. They gave the error message you see on your camera.
However the later batteries were chipped and worked identically to the OEM battery. These also worked perfectly with the 5DIII (up until now). These are the batteries that I have.
Canon seems to have gone out if it's way to hassle users about these batteries now.
I know. I just never saw a reason to switch to chipped batteries since mine work so well, and it's really not a major hassle to hit OK when turning the camera on (it doesn't happen when the camera goes to sleep, even if you leave it like that for days on end; I rarely flip the switches "off") or when swapping batteries.
Of course Canon wants to keep you buying their OEM parts... they are probably one of the highest margin accessories they sell.
p.4 #15 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
Up until installing the new firmware, I was totally unaware that the two spare batteries I owned were not genuine. I had bought them in 2011 for my 7D through a 3rd party on Amazon.ca. The listing said they were genuine and made by Canon. The price was $65, which was a bit cheaper than most Canadian stores but equal to B&H pricing for legit LP-E6s.
When I installed the firmware 2 of my 5 batteries gave the communication error. 3 of my batteries are from my cameras (7D, 5D2 and 5D3). I had a close look at the batteries and there are a couple clues to spot the fake ones if you know what to look for. I've posted a pic with one of the legit ones and one of the fakes. Both the labels are legit and even not having the date code is legit. But can you spot the main tell-tale sign??
These came in official looking packaging, so I wonder if even the retailer knew they were fakes?? Looking back at the Amazon.ca listing there are now some reviews saying the batteries are fakes but not at the time I bought them. They have always worked fine and I never knew the difference. Now I know
p.4 #17 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
helimat wrote:
Other than the the second one doesn't look as 'polished', it also says it was made in Japan, but further processed in China. Is it the faker?
Well I won't spoil the fun yet. However, both labels do exist as legit versions out in the wild even with the different text and logos. So the Japan and China stuff is not the give away. Not sure about the "polished" part.
p.4 #19 · Canon now warning us about third party batteries.
BINGO... yep that is the easy give away. However, there are fakes out there that have the letters also (and the letters area always different). One other thing is that the corners of the bright blue part of the label are not rounded like on the legit one but are straight lines instead.
I learned all about these fakes over on POTN forums where someone posted a picture of all real batteries and a picture of where to look for the fakes.
Is it the faker?