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 p.8 #5 · Birders vs Photographers | |
Conrad Tan wrote:
Hello Les! I felt as I read down your comment that I should respond. I've read each and every comment before ours, and found a few things very interesting. I've come to a personal conclusion that there are indeed different levels of baiting. Some are detrimental to animals, while others help. Some are are considered illegal, others aren't. When I posted this thread, it was a wish to share my experience with this woman who, without knowing me or my character, chose to publicly slam me. I felt attacked.
Out in the fields, I've come across a HUGE number of wonderful birders. They are helpful, curious, and always always love to see the photographs I take. Many have become my friends. In fact, a great deal of my photographs are had by tips from these same birders. They know how much I respect wildlife, and how much trouble I go to not to do anything to upset my subjects. I've even been known to put up perches for my Whitetail Kite subjects (of course within a good shooting distance) to return and dine comfortably. In turn, I tell my birder friends whenever I see a new or neat sighting. Obviously this woman made a general sweeping judgement of all photographers, and chose to express her dislike for our kind in the manner which she did. That is her absolute right, as is my right to return the favor, at least towards her. Let me say that in every single case where I'm out shooting, I'm always the first to yell out to the guys with short lenses "YOU'RE TOO CLOSE!" That's not just because I don't want the action to stop, its also of course for the well being of the subject. No need to unnecessarily flush a bird. Even when I was shooting Snowy Owls in Washington, TONS of birders (newbies to be sure) were getting way way too close causing the Owls to fly off. None of the photographers I was with ever caused the Owls to fly to get a flight shot. We didn't have to. We just sat back on an Owl, and within a short amount of time, some tourist would walk way too close despite my warnings, and flush it, to my benefit of course. This happened all day long. Anyway, that was my isolated experience with that.
Now onto the matter of the baiting which I participated in. When I saw the photographs of these Owls, I thought maybe they were baited. But I didn't know for sure. I've got HUNDREDS of photographs of Kites, Kestrels, RTH, I can go on and on, where they have caught a wild field mouse, and brought it someplace to eat, where I've documented every aspect of this behavior, without disturbing the bird. I'm talking full frame shots. My big secret? I only shoot in areas where there is constant human presence. But what's happened in many a wildlife forum when I post these? I get accused of baiting. I laugh it off, and ask them to come shoot where I shoot. I indeed have it that good, as do all the friends who shoot with me. We are blessed to have many cooperative and fearless subjects to photograph. But I digress. I contacted the photographer of those Minnesota Owls. We hit it off. An even exchange of Whitetail location for Great Grey location was made, and off I went. Baiting was discussed, and my curiosity was peaked. I have been to Ray Barlow's workshops for Birds in Flight, and thoroughly enjoyed it. There are many here who would never participate in Falconry photography or workshops, but for me it was a ton of fun. So this time when baiting was brought up, I thought again, this will be fun. I've never, ever thought about not even a quarter of the issues brought up here against baiting. I went, learned the tricks of the trade, made a lifelong friend, and came home happy.
What are my personal thoughts and feelings about what I participated in? It was thrilling beyond belief. But, it was not quite as thrilling as my many many lucky moments catching similar action unbaited. There was just something different about it. All the experience involved was the same in getting the shot right. It was just a different experience. Would I do it again? I don't know. It was THAT much fun, and in the end, isn't this why we participate in this hobby, the fun? Would I bait now that I'm back home? Depends on the level of baiting. I was shown how a properly place branch above a bowl of seed could produce stunning images. Again, not as thrilling as the grab shot of the beautifully perched unwitting subject. But the result is the same. This type of baiting with feeders, nectar, etc, I can see myself doing, although I've not done it yet. Baiting with mice? Frankly I'm a HUGE chicken when it comes to mice, grasshoppers and crickets. I don't know why. So its pretty unlikely I'll do that. My thoughts of the consequences of the subjects being baited? My level of concern has deepened more than I have ever thought possible because of the arguments against it in this thread.
Will this stop me from personally doing it? Most likely. As for being asked to disclose how, where, when I get my photos, I choose to because I want to, not because I'm being asked to, by someone so they can then judge subjectively, the merits of the photograph. If they see my photography as a little less than savory because I've baited, then that is their right. If I get a shot naturally, well they'll never know, and misjudge me as that woman did. That's ok. I am not in this to make you happy, I'm in it to make ME happy! I share what I know out of the joy I get by sharing. I always leave my EXIF data in all my photographs. That way folks can learn who need a little help. If you ever spend any amount of time with me, you'll hear me call out shutter speeds, ISO settings, subjects jumping out where you might not be looking, all in the effort that both of us can get the shot. That's the kind of man I am. When I posted this, I WAS asking for the full range of possible answers, and have learned a lot on the way. I've appreciated both sides of this discussion and hope it has at the very least, been entertaining if not informative. ...Show more →
Conrad,
When I made the post to which you replied, it was not directed at you for starting the topic. It was, instead, directed at those who don't seem to want to think that it is appropriate for others who disagree with them to be saying what they think.
You seem to make it clear that you want to be thoughtful and to consider what impact your actions might have on wildlife. Thus, regardless of whether I agree with everything you have said, I appreciate and respect that you do want to be thoughtful about your approach and its potential impact on wildlife. What I find to be troublesome is those whose words clearly reveal that they feel that they have the right to do whatever they need to do to get their shots and who who are dismissive of any thoughts that their behavior could even possibly be doing harm. In this and a couple of other threads, you can easily find examples of people justifying what they have done by saying that they were not going to pass up a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. You have a couple who have tried to dismiss and minimize the concerns of others by joking about their own questionable actions and by belittling those who raise questions about their behavior. And you have those who seem to think that those with a different view shouldn't have the right to express that view. Those are the people who lead others to make negative judgments about their behavior. And they are the people who make it important for these issues to be discussed regardless of whether some want to be further dismissive by saying that the same issues have been discussed many times in the past.
Les
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Nice one, Larry. 
or 
etc might have made your post more clear?
perhaps of it all.....
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