p.5 #1 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
As someone who has bought and sold a lot on Fred Miranda, I offer a price xxx at a paypal gift price. You can always add 3% if you want protection from paypal or you feel it is unfair to "defraud" paypal.
Yes I could "bump" up the price by 3% and am completely willing to do this if everyone on the board selling did the same thing.
The biggest thing to me is see who is selling the item. Do they have good feedback? Will they give you a phone number and make contact with you on high value items? Do they have a business? A website?
Also - the biggest issue I have had in the past is not the transaction - it's things getting lost in the post. I now only use UPS Insured for high value items and I always require a signature.
p.5 #2 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
I believe the discussion can serve to educate users who may not be aware of the risks involved with "gift" payments. I've seen many threads about scams, and those who have fallen victim often used an uninsured payment method.
As a community that's always growing, I think it serves all of us to make sure FMers new and old are informed and protecting themselves on the B/S Forum.
eyphotog wrote:
Fred is just doing his job to inform users in his site/forum. It's your decision to do whatever you want. Why is this even a discussion?
p.5 #3 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
Either PayPal or EBay will "drop" you if you don't follow their rules with transactions - that's that simple.
As others said here, a CC is a better payment method thru Paypal - never direct from your checking account.
Maybe Paypal's fees should be a fair split between seller and buyer - after all is a convenience and protection to both parties.
Unless they can agree and feel safe with a different institution/method (not PP gift)
Shipping and insurance it's a whole different game....
edit: I see many posts saying seller solely should pay for PP fees...and indeed I often see FS posts were seller asks for additional 3%....which probably leads buyer to offer a lower price anyway.
In the spirit of "cost of doing business", well it takes two to tango
Paypal is NOT a mandatory item of a transaction - it's a convenient transaction "media". Some banks accept direct payments, and there is always the trustworthy check and money-order...eh-eh.
Fred advise is a good one and makes a lot of sense - the gift option should never be asked as part of a sale.
Now, if the two parties trust each other that much, and decide to go that way privately, then only PP has a say.
p.5 #4 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
Fred is right, PayPal gift should only be used as a family/friend gift and not for payment of goods or services. Not only is paying for something with PayPal as a gift is fraud, it is very risky.
Also, I think the seller should pay the PayPal fees as a cost of doing business. The buyer should not be responsible.
p.5 #5 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
Fred,
Great advice.
Recently I declined an overseas transaction with an established member of the FM community (large dollar item - multiple thousands) because the seller would not accept paypal.
For me, paypal's 3% - even when it amounts to hundreds of dollars - is worth it - if I can sleep at night - during the interval of sending money and awaiting receipt.
Unless I personally know the seller (well), my assessment of relative risk vs. reward definitely favors paying paypal's 3% fee.
Ask yourself: do you intend to make a gift (doubtful)? or are you hoping for a purchase transaction?
p.5 #6 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
godfather wrote:
Great to see a lot of honest people on this forum. I hope they are paying sales (import) tax on all of these items shipped to different states / countries. Especially important is any professional using this service with depreciated gear. This site should be a first stop for IRS agents making sure people are not "forgetting" to pay taxes on a lens that is 6 years old but worth 80% of its value that they sell (online or otherwise).
If your not doing 100% of what is listed above there is no reason to be criticizing others...
** I have no problem whatsoever w/ what Fred is saying. He is totally correct that the buyers are not protected at all with gift payments. I presume this post follows a loss of money by a member on this forum which is very sad! I assume the guilty member now has a locked account and I did see this recently happen to a higher feedback individual. **...Show more →
IRS does not collect sales taxes (actually, they're called "use taxes" when paid by the purchaser and not imposed or collected by the seller). And "use tax" enforcement - invariably - is conducted by your favorite state's department of revenue.
In my career as a cpa, I've only seen state enforcement of use taxes against mostly contractors (in states with sales taxes - most states) purchasing materials from non-sales tax states (like Delaware). Those can be really nasty, expensive, and contested audits. No fun.
I've never seen states attempt to impose use taxes on non-commercial entities or individuals.
Then again, I suppose there's always a first time.
p.5 #7 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
papamac wrote:
They should just lower the fee to say 1.5% and offer real insurance for a reasonable rate, then if the buyer decides to pass on the insurance it is solely on him and no one else.
Here's another popular misconception.
shipping insurance does NOT protect the buyer. as buyers, I'd invite ANYBODY to report the last time they were able to successfully file a claim for a lost or damaged shipment. I won't hold my breath.
the ONLY person - legally - with an insurable risk in a shipping transaction is the SELLER - who common carriers presume has a legal obligation to deliver said item(s), undamaged, to the BUYER.
NOTE - the buyer is - in my experience (and I recently attempted to do this) UNABLE to purchase insurance (that insures the buyer). Such insurance is ONLY available for purchase by the SELLER/SHIPPER and it insures his obligation to deliver.
So, back to Paypal's fees - let's hypothetically imagine a $10,000 purchase from a seller half way around the world - say somewhere in Eurasia.
Seller insures shipment, receives payment, ships a box of rocks and goes on his vacation of a lifetime.
Meanwhile, you're loosing sleep until the "ground-shipped" box of rocks arrives 6 to 10 weeks later, maybe.
Good luck retaining, communicating with, and prosecuting the return of your money with legal counsel (with no help from paypal because you saved 3%) half-way around the world.
IMHO, no thank you. I'll gladly pay the 3%. no question about it...
p.5 #8 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
Fred is right, PayPal gift should only be used as a family/friend gift and not for payment of goods or services. Not only is paying for something with PayPal as a gift is fraud, it is very risky.
Also, I think the seller should pay the PayPal fees as a cost of doing business. The buyer should not be responsible.
p.5 #9 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
I purchased a lens off of this site just last week via PayPal...unbeknowns to me, PayPal paid the individual immediately even before there was evidence that he had shipped the lens...to date I have not received the lens, nor a tracking number and the seller has not responded to several emails. As of tomorrow it will be 7 days and then I can begin the resolution process. Does anyone here have a positive story to tell about PayPal making good on their "protection plan"? I could certainly use some reassurance at this point as I am out $1000. (note every time prior to this when I have either bought or sold camera equip via PayPal, the item needed to be satisfactorily in the hands of the buyer before the seller could get paid...PayPal assured me that this seller had a positive track record and thus their immediate payment to him...but again, without me knowing that up front...)
p.5 #10 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
My comments.
1) Using PayPal gift for goods is an act of fraud, in violation of your agreement with PayPal. You know, if adhering to contracts is something that you do.
2) I don't understand the reluctance to use money orders? In the world of gun-board classifieds, it is, by far, the most used payment method. US Postal Money Orders are a good thing.
p.5 #11 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
My first purchase on this site was a scam. I didn't pay attention to the obvious warning signs but Paypal reimbursed me. That being said, when I sell, I am always wary. I've had buyers buy things, pay through paypal, I ship, and then I find out the card they used in Paypal was stolen. The person got their money back, and I was out an iPad. So as a seller, I prefer Paypal gift. It's a catch 22, however, since you can't get feedback without transactions, and you can't get transactions if people are wary of low feedback sellers.
p.5 #12 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
Danner wrote:
My comments.
1) Using PayPal gift for goods is an act of fraud, in violation of your agreement with PayPal. You know, if adhering to contracts is something that you do.
2) I don't understand the reluctance to use money orders? In the world of gun-board classifieds, it is, by far, the most used payment method. US Postal Money Orders are a good thing.
2) some people can't stick the head out of a world of instant gratification they live in
MO from USPS are safer than checks, but takes time to arrive, and one has to visit the post office ...( I know you can buy stamps online and print the label at home, but I don't think it can be done with MO's - and probably should not)
p.5 #13 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
Bacalhau wrote:
2) some people can't stick the head out of a world of instant gratification they live in
MO from USPS are safer than checks, but takes time to arrive, and one has to visit the post office ...( I know you can buy stamps online and print the label at home, but I don't think it can be done with MO's - and probably should not)
Only once did I get paid with a USPS Money Order. It was about $300.00 and I stopped at the Local Post Office to cash it. It was then that I learned that this was almost impossible as the Post Office has very little cash and the person who waited on me said that I might have a chance if I came at the end of the day when they had more money in the drawer. Seems as if they start out the day with very little and most of the money coming in is in the form of credit cards.
Since I live in a suburb of Chicago, there are lots of post offices, so I tried two more with the same end result. I ended up depositing it in my bank since this is the only way to eventually get your money. I no longer accept USPS money orders, just not worth the hassle.
p.5 #14 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
Hi Mike,
I can see how that can cause an inconvenience, but one other positive aspect of the USPS money order is that you can easily confirm its authenticity, so once you deposit it, there are no concerns about whether or not it is fraudulent or if it will clear, as you might have with a check.
I personally am comfortable with USPS money orders, and I would request a buyer to send me a copy of the receipt so that I can quickly verify the amount and authenticity online.
iammikie wrote:
Only once did I get paid with a USPS Money Order. It was about $300.00 and I stopped at the Local Post Office to cash it. It was then that I learned that this was almost impossible as the Post Office has very little cash and the person who waited on me said that I might have a chance if I came at the end of the day when they had more money in the drawer. Seems as if they start out the day with very little and most of the money coming in is in the form of credit cards.
Since I live in a suburb of Chicago, there are lots of post offices, so I tried two more with the same end result. I ended up depositing it in my bank since this is the only way to eventually get your money. I no longer accept USPS money orders, just not worth the hassle....Show more →
p.5 #15 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
You should search a bit on this forum about the potential pitfalls associated with accepting gift payments as a seller. It's been discussed quite a bit. Not even talking about ethics or possible action against your account by PayPal. I'm talking about how you could get scammed out of the money and the item.
fudoshingeist wrote:
My first purchase on this site was a scam. I didn't pay attention to the obvious warning signs but Paypal reimbursed me. That being said, when I sell, I am always wary. I've had buyers buy things, pay through paypal, I ship, and then I find out the card they used in Paypal was stolen. The person got their money back, and I was out an iPad. So as a seller, I prefer Paypal gift. It's a catch 22, however, since you can't get feedback without transactions, and you can't get transactions if people are wary of low feedback sellers....Show more →
p.5 #16 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
$3 per $100 is really inexpensive considering the hassle paypal removes from most sales.
If a seller is demanding gift, I have either passed on that item or added the 3%.
Having needed paypal "insurance" a couple of times.... it's easily worth it!
Those sellers who can't give up that 3% should really just add it in before listing an item.
We are all already saving the dough ebay would charge :o
p.5 #17 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
I don't understand charging people sellers fees anyway. I never charged my own sellers fees to a buyer. It's against Paypals agreement rules as well. You list an item because you want to sell it. Why do I have to pay extra for you to sell your item? I don't have to pay sellers fees anywhere else. Why here?
p.5 #18 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
yeiter wrote:
I purchased a lens off of this site just last week via PayPal...unbeknowns to me, PayPal paid the individual immediately even before there was evidence that he had shipped the lens...to date I have not received the lens, nor a tracking number and the seller has not responded to several emails. As of tomorrow it will be 7 days and then I can begin the resolution process. Does anyone here have a positive story to tell about PayPal making good on their "protection plan"? I could certainly use some reassurance at this point as I am out $1000. (note every time prior to this when I have either bought or sold camera equip via PayPal, the item needed to be satisfactorily in the hands of the buyer before the seller could get paid...PayPal assured me that this seller had a positive track record and thus their immediate payment to him...but again, without me knowing that up front...)...Show more →
Every sale or purchase I've made, payment has been in the account immediately. This applies to eBay sales or through my site. The only time is when they pay using a bank account or like an echeck. PayPal will send you an email to not ship until payment has been cleared.
p.5 #19 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
I got a over payment for a lens by $400 and that was the first red flag from the buyer to be so generous
Then at a closer examination there was the missing water marks of Benjamin Franklin on the M.O.
Buyer expected me to cash them in and send the lens and by that time my bank would have contacting me about getting 2 $1000 M.O. that where counterfeit......
Contacted the US postal inspectors that arrived in a black Crown Vic to warn me next time try not to handle the M.O. to preserved the finger prints
M.O. came out of Nigeria where they do a lot of scamming with perfect printing presses minus the missing water marks
Buyer called the next day asking if I sent the lens and I told him the US Postal Inspectors would like to talk to him..... click
p.5 #20 · Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
+1 million Chet Hall wrote:
Fred I believe this is very sound advice. I know from firsthand experience how important it is being protected from a scam. I was lucky ...PayPal saved me $1500.00 by getting my money back when I did not protect myself using the 3%. NEVER again! I could have lost it and never recovered the money because I was trying to save $45.00. Deals can be made with the buyer and seller splitting the costs. I understand what pdmphoto is stating with trusted members, but in general it's a must to protect yourself when using PayPal or any other method of payment.
I'm sorry to say I don't think this will be the last time this topic is brought up. Always a good idea to keep it in the light. ...Show more →
Alert: Uninsured payments and tips for safe transactions
