The fact that the OP starts the thread asking why there is so little buzz about this camera, and then the thread developing in a direction about whether it belongs here to be discussed says it all: the EOS-M has difficulties to find it's way to an audience. In the audience between FM members, typically more advanced serious enthusiast photographers and a few professionals, this is indeed a still born camera.
The serious photographer, well informed, is more interested in alternatives than in this camera. The entry level photographer looking for something compact has better alternatives at a much more appealing price. The dealer, willing to sell Canon cameras for his bonus, will have a hard time to convince his well informed customers that this EOS-M is the better choice over other compact system cameras. Just some die hard Canon fans who want this latest gadget from Canon may be buyers for an M as part of their system in the awareness that this camera does have below par autofocus and lacks some important features the competion has. They take it for granted that next year or the year after they will have to spend some money again for Canon's better targeted EF/M-mount model.
The greatest part of the market for this camera will be entry level buyers who are willing to spend quite some money for a compact ststem camera and trust the brand name of Canon. Typically women and family men with no great photographic ambitions. They might be disappointed by the AF performance, but are willing to blame themselves for the lack of photographic skills. These people hardly know their way to these forums, so we won't meet a lot of them here. Still they will enjoy the EOSfun
It's honestly about what I expected, as a business Canon is conservative and avoids any risks, they were probably so afraid of cannibalizing existing DSLR sales that it was doomed from the very beginning. I think the winners in this segment will be the guys who have nothing to lose, because they are most willing to take the risks, Olympus, Fuji, Panasonic, or such. The big DSLR players (Canon and Nikon) both came out with mediocre products that no one really wanted.
chez wrote:
Title of the forum has little to do with it. I think there is a lot of "snobbish" reaction to mirrorless cameras as they do approach the typical size of P&S...but they are very much more capable as can be seen by the OMD system. I truly believe the future cameras will be mirrorless and we'll see this forum dominated by them in the near future. The wave has begun and even though both Canon and Nikon don't like it, DSLR systems of today will become very much niche cameras in the near future.
I think talking and educating ourselves right here in this forum is where this type of discussion belongs. ...Show more →
Why would I fight for something don't belong to SLR forum? Besides many threads showing no or close to no interest to this camera.
Looks like its greatest strength, which is the ability to mount and autofocus an EF lens, still isn't enough to outweigh the weaknesses, slow AF, no built-in or accessory EVF, no pop up flash, no higher end full frame model.
You just can't sell a camera to the average consumers without a pop-up flash, just as you can't sell a camera to the more advance users without a Viewfinder, optical or electronic. This camera has neither, so good luck Canon.
n0b0 wrote:
Looks like its greatest strength, which is the ability to mount and autofocus an EF lens, still isn't enough to outweigh the weaknesses, slow AF, no built-in or accessory EVF, no pop up flash, no higher end full frame model.
You just can't sell a camera to the average consumers without a pop-up flash, just as you can't sell a camera to the more advance users without a Viewfinder, optical or electronic. This camera has neither, so good luck Canon.
Agree, also I know many people who would like to step up above PS. But I don't know anyone who would buy this camera or even ask how good it is ... Rebel is all they need and ask about!! I am not saying that it doesn't have any promising future but with what Canon did and price as high unfortunately no interest at all.
n0b0 wrote:
You just can't sell a camera to the average consumers without a pop-up flash, just as you can't sell a camera to the more advance users without a Viewfinder, optical or electronic. This camera has neither, so good luck Canon.
you know how many soccer mom's I see carrying 5d mkII and III's.. alot. No popup flash on those. Would I want those features they left out ? Honestly I would not mind, but it's a great little cam without the built in flash and the EVF.
On a side note the 90ex flash is so cute.. I'm afraid I will lose it.
So, in all seriousness, why isn't there a lot of "buzz" about the EOS-M* in forums like this one (at least outside of this thread)?
1. There is already a lot of "buzz" in forums like this one about other stuff - new-ish cameras like the 5D3 and 1Dx and 6D, speculation about upcoming stuff, new lens introductions for these cameras, the whole Canon/Nikon thing, and questions by participants who own DSLRs.
2. It doesn't quite fit the needs of the majority of people participating in a forum like this. (It does meet the needs of some... but they are a small subset of this group here.)
3. It was introduced as a nice, newish camera but with the clear context that it is a sort of a "dipping toe in water" step for Canon - not meant to be their final statement in this product space and with a clear expectation that more "serious" adaptations of this type of camera (which might be more interesting here) are yet to come. Some of us are still waiting...
4. Given #3, it is a bit hard for some to see how it differentiates itself from the many other non-DSLR offerings from other manufacturers. I know that some of you have an answer to that and I understand the sensor and compatibility stuff, but the market doesn't see it that way, at least not yet.
5. It is very new, just barely released - so whatever "buzz" it may generate may be yet to come.
6. And, relative to the level of "buzz" in this thread, my original point about the question in that context was simply that most who come to the Canon (D)SLR forum are perhaps more interested in discussing DSLR topics, and this may simply not be the place where in interest in the EOS-M is highest.
Dan
*By the way, just because its name includes the magic letters "EOS," it is not necessarily the case that a camera will be (or won't be) something that meets the expectations of those familiar with the EOS brand. Canon did a similar thing perhaps a decade ago when they introduce the "Pro One," a non-DSLR camera that even included a red-ring lens, suggesting that this was a camera that was a serious as the others often sporting L-series lenses. It wasn't, and the lens did not impress those of us who used it as deserving the red ring. It was an interesting and innovative little camera, but something else entirely. (I still have mine... sitting on my desk in my studio.)
gdanmitchell wrote:
So, in all seriousness, why isn't there a lot of "buzz" about the EOS-M* in forums like this one (at least outside of this thread)?
1. There is already a lot of "buzz" in forums like this one about other stuff - new-ish cameras like the 5D3 and 1Dx and 6D, speculation about upcoming stuff, new lens introductions for these cameras, the whole Canon/Nikon thing, and questions by participants who own DSLRs.
2. It doesn't quite fit the needs of the majority of people participating in a forum like this. (It does meet the needs of some... but they are a small subset of this group here.)
3. It was introduced as a nice, newish camera but with the clear context that it is a sort of a "dipping toe in water" step for Canon - not meant to be their final statement in this product space and with a clear expectation that more "serious" adaptations of this type of camera (which might be more interesting here) are yet to come. Some of us are still waiting...
4. Given #3, it is a bit hard for some to see how it differentiates itself from the many other non-DSLR offerings from other manufacturers. I know that some of you have an answer to that and I understand the sensor and compatibility stuff, but the market doesn't see it that way, at least not yet.
5. It is very new, just barely released - so whatever "buzz" it may generate may be yet to come.
6. And, relative to the level of "buzz" in this thread, my original point about the question in that context was simply that most who come to the Canon (D)SLR forum are perhaps more interested in discussing DSLR topics, and this may simply not be the place where in interest in the EOS-M is highest.
Dan
*By the way, just because its name includes the magic letters "EOS," it is not necessarily the case that a camera will be (or won't be) something that meets the expectations of those familiar with the EOS brand. Canon did a similar thing perhaps a decade ago when they introduce the "Pro One," a non-DSLR camera that even included a red-ring lens, suggesting that this was a camera that was a serious as the others often sporting L-series lenses. It wasn't, and the lens did not impress those of us who used it as deserving the red ring. It was an interesting and innovative little camera, but something else entirely. (I still have mine... sitting on my desk in my studio.)...Show more →
Very little buzz around the EOS-M on the alt forum as well where mirrorless systems are discussed at large. Not a good showing out of the gate for Canon. When entering late into the game, don't come out with a dribble.
MintMar wrote:
Why do you suffer Digital Rebel discussion here then? They have no prism.
Would it be tough for M owners to unite and enjoy this great body on separate, dedicated to mirrorless forum? I believe video lovers eventually found one for example, use to be as much noise before about.
It would be better for anyone, instead of attacking each other and fight for something most people don't like here.
Read the post at the top of this page. I'd guess there will be a mirrorless thread at some point, but for now, Fred doesn't seem to mind if it's in the Canon SLR forum, or the Alt Forum. He must have felt that it would hold interest to both parties, which it clearly does (obviously not to everyone...literally, not everyone likes the same thing, which is why there is more than one camera on this planet - sad that I have to state this because I know you'll point out, for the tenth time, that you don't like it). What's unfortunate is that he posts the introduction in both forums saying "Hey guys, check out this interesting new thing!" and then you have a bunch of the hypersensitive type jumping up and down saying "RAWRRR DON'T POST THAT HERE RAWRRR!!!". There are literally 100 threads on just the first page of the Canon forum and the volume of tears from 1% of questionable imperfection is just amazing.
corndog wrote:
Read the post at the top of this page. I'd guess there will be a mirrorless thread at some point, but for now, Fred doesn't seem to mind if it's in the Canon SLR forum, or the Alt Forum. He must have felt that it would hold interest to both parties, which it clearly does (obviously not to everyone...literally, not everyone likes the same thing, which is why there is more than one camera on this planet - sad that I have to state this because I know you'll point out, for the tenth time, that you don't like it). What's unfortunate is that he posts the introduction in both forums saying "Hey guys, check out this interesting new thing!" and then you have a bunch of the hypersensitive type jumping up and down saying "RAWRRR DON'T POST THAT HERE RAWRRR!!!". There are literally 100 threads on just the first page of the Canon forum and the volume of tears from 1% of questionable imperfection is just amazing....Show more →
I don't think it is about camera anymore, it is pure defensive attacks on everyone trying to say anything against of this camera. Most people here shooting with "classic" DSLR and would like to stay where they are now. This camera doesn't convince me that it is close to DSLR to post about here, in my opinion it is little better than PS. Sure Fred will decide what to do on his forum but I would also hope he would stop pointless attacks from proud new M owners ...
If you're referring to me, I don't have one. I also don't care if you say anything negative about the camera, but god's sake, quit whining and let people post threads about it until it there is a more suitable location. Just use a kleenex and move on to the next thread.
corndog wrote:
If you're referring to me, I don't have one. I also don't care if you say anything negative about the camera, but god's sake, quit whining and let people post threads about it until it there is a more suitable location. Just use a kleenex and move on to the next thread.
Think about these smart words, I believe it is from Confucius: People who are leaving inside glass made house should not throw stones ...
but god's sake, quit whining and let people post threads about it until it there is a more suitable location. Just use a kleenex and move on to the next thread.
It is this kind of texts that are annoying and generate resistance. It is against the rules. Please mind the rule #1 of this forum: "Be courteous, and polite. Do not use profanity, viciously bash others, be rude, ...etc." Else I'll have to report this thread. THX for you cooperation.
Breitling65 wrote:
I don't think it is about camera anymore, it is pure defensive attacks on everyone trying to say anything against of this camera. Most people here shooting with "classic" DSLR and would like to stay where they are now. This camera doesn't convince me that it is close to DSLR to post about here, in my opinion it is little better than PS. Sure Fred will decide what to do on his forum but I would also hope he would stop pointless attacks from proud new M owners ...
WHY are you still in this thread if you object to it so much. Just pick up and move along little doggy.
eosfun wrote:
It is this kind of texts that are annoying and generate resistance. It is against the rules. Please mind the rule #1 of this forum: "Be courteous, and polite. Do not use profanity, viciously bash others, be rude, ...etc." Else I'll have to report this thread. THX for you cooperation.
His constant whining isn't rude? Where were you for those posts?
A separate ILC forum is a great idea. Uniting Olympus, Panasonic, Leica, Fuji, EOS-M, Nikon-J and Sony all under the same umbrella would be the only way to have enough posters for a healthy interchange. If the ILC becomes really popular, approaching DSLR penetration, I could see a separate forums for M4/3, Sony, etc.
However, ILC cameras will need to be physically much larger to replace DSLRs among most pro and serious shooters. I carry an Oly E-P3 everyday to work because it is tiny and light. However--although AF is very fast--using the tiny buttons and wheels is very slow and frustrating compared to my 5D2/7D. It's also so small it's difficult to hold steady and balance even a moderately sized zoom. Of course the hassle is worth it as I can take it into concerts and similar venues I get turned away from with my DSLR. And that Panasonic 45-200 zoom (90-400 equivalent) tucks into my coat pocket with barely a bulge...
body on separate, dedicated to mirrorless forum? I believe video lovers eventually found one for example, use to be as much noise before about.