p.3 #1 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
beautox wrote:
I don't get this. Given that OP currently has (full frame equivalent) coverage from 16mm to 320mm, you are saying that it's somehow logical to go full frame and restrict his coverage to 24-200mm
By that I meant that the OP isn't emphasizing long telephoto and has the 24-105, the best general photography lens for full frame, probably followed closely by the 70-200. 24 is pretty wide on FF but he has said he'd add the 17-40. A great FF lens set if you are not into the big whites or the big wides.
p.3 #2 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
RobDickinson wrote:
5d2 is a step back from the 40d on autofocus. You also have a shallower apparent dof at the same aperture/framing too.
Would you consider manual focus with a fast focus screen?
I don't think I could consider manual focus. I don't think I am that good, nor do I really have the time or desire to learn. I just don't think that shooting moving kids would be all that feasible for me without AF. I would rather take advantage of technology, even if it is imperfect.
p.3 #3 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
Thanks for the below response. I appreciate the comments from someone who has used all of these cameras. Much appreciated.
Jeff Nolten wrote:
I've had 10D, 40D, and now use 5D1, 5D2, and 7D for travel, wildlife and family photography. Frankly, I think the whole autofocus controversy is way over blown. While I think there are circumstances where the 40D or 7D outer cross points can make a difference over the 5D's or 6D's linear points and the 7D's configuration settings can make a difference over the 40D, these are specialized and the photographers affected know this going in to a camera selection decision. The same goes for a camera body's maximum frame rate.
The kinds of AF issues I've had were hunting with macro or the 100-400 in low contrast situations. But these are obvious when they happen, you adjust, refocus and shoot. By far the more frequent cause of missed shots in my photography has been due to motion blur rather than a lack of focus lock or accuracy. In general, no camera body has stood out as better or worse than the others, they've all worked well. I've found the 5D2's center point is a bit more accurate than the 7D's points but the 7D's outer points are a bit better than the 5D's. No argument the 7D is better ergonomically but the 5D2 is wonderful.
Much more apparent to me is the improved IQ of full frame over crop. 5D images are just easy to deal with in a wider range of ISO settings. 5D2 images are sharp to the pixel which means a 1.6 crop will yield an 8 MP image close in resolution to a 40D image. The 40D is lower in noise at low ISOs than the 7D, but the 7D has more resolution that can be used for noise reduction and sharpening. And that is the 7D's rub, it can yield better images than a 40D but this requires careful post processing from raw to get the most out of it. I use the 7D mostly as a 1.6 tele extender.
So far I've felt no need for the 5D3's AF. If Canon were to give it the f8 AF firmware upgrade, I'd have to consider it because then I could then use my 1.4x with my 100-400 and I could leave the 7D home....Show more →
p.3 #4 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
dnadrifter wrote:
Thanks for the below response. I appreciate the comments from someone who has used all of these cameras. Much appreciated.
Drifter,
I think most people responding here have owned all the cameras mentioned. You can check people's profiles to see what gear they actually own. Your decision seems to be between the 5DII and 7D. You need to decide if you want a faster frame rate with useable outer focus points on the crop sensor (7D), or a slower frame rate and center point only AF on the FF sensor with better IQ (5DII). Personally, I can't stand the noise on the 7D (I own one) and you probably just need to determine whether you can accept the noise or not, because there are clearly two 7D crowds - those who hate it's IQ, and those who accept it and use a ton of PP/NR to clean them up. There are many long, long, heated threads here on the 7D noise topic, you should probably try one and decide if you like the IQ or not. If it were me I would go with the 5DII for the better IQ/DOF, the center point is no slouch and will track your 3yr old with no problems in AI servo. Good luck
p.3 #5 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
artsupreme wrote:
Drifter,
I think most people responding here have owned all the cameras mentioned. You can check people's profiles to see what gear they actually own. Your decision seems to be between the 5DII and 7D. You need to decide if you want a faster frame rate with useable outer focus points on the crop sensor (7D), or a slower frame rate and center point only AF on the FF sensor with better IQ (5DII). Personally, I can't stand the noise on the 7D (I own one) and you probably just need to determine whether you can accept the noise or not, because there are clearly two 7D crowds - those who hate it's IQ, and those who accept it and use a ton of PP/NR to clean them up. There are many long, long, heated threads here on the 7D noise topic, you should probably try one and decide if you like the IQ or not. If it were me I would go with the 5DII for the better IQ/DOF, the center point is no slouch and will track your 3yr old with no problems in AI servo. Good luck...Show more →
Thanks for the thoughts.
Would you say that noise is worse than my 40D? I had also thought about picking up a 17-55 2.8 in order to pick up another stop if I got a 7D. (I had also considered trying to pick up a 24-70 mkI if I went full frame). I have no need for a faster frame rate.
Regarding IQ on Full frame: Will I notice a difference on web, 4x6, 5x7, 8x10s? This is typically what I would process to for viewing.
I think you are right about the 5DII and 7D. I am also still considering the mkIII, but am going to have a hard time justifying it. I would feel better about it if Canon had improved their sensor tech and I wasnt just getting an improved AF that I may or may not need. From what I have read it seems that they are really just lagging behind others right now in sensor tech.
p.3 #6 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
I've owned the 40d and 7d, and have purchased another 40d. The only things I really liked about the 7d were the ergonomics, better lcd, and option to shoot video. I like the 40d as a camera more than i did my 7d. The noise sooc is very noticeable on the 7d. As artsupreme stated there seems to be two different 7d crowds. I'm not going to say it's a bad camera, it just didn't suit me.
Based off of your first post the 5d3 meets your wants/needs in a body. The 5d2 would be my next choice, without question.
p.3 #10 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
dnadrifter wrote:
Not sure I understand. Do you not consider the 24-105, 70-200 f4 or 17-40(future purchase) full frame glass?
If you're looking for a 1:1 comparison, full-frame glass costs more. The 17-55/2.8 IS is $1000, the 24-70/2.8L is more than double. The 17-40/4L isn't exactly analogous to the 10-22; I've had both and the 10-22 is a better (and wider) lens. The 16-35/2.8L is nearer to $1500. If you were shooting the 85/1.8 on crop, the 135/2 full-frame equivalent is over twice the price. All that aside, I didn't see your list of glass. The hit won't be as severe.
p.3 #11 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
alexdi wrote:
If you're looking for a 1:1 comparison, full-frame glass costs more. The 17-55/2.8 IS is $1000, the 24-70/2.8L is more than double. The 17-40/4L isn't exactly analogous to the 10-22; I've had both and the 10-22 is a better (and wider) lens. The 16-35/2.8L is nearer to $1500. If you were shooting the 85/1.8 on crop, the 135/2 full-frame equivalent is over twice the price. All that aside, I didn't see your list of glass. The hit won't be as severe.
Thanks. I read your review. Almost makes me wonder if I should upgrade at all unless I can go to a 5DIII. Maybe the gap in noise / focus isn't as far as I thought between a 40D and 7D/5DII. It also isn't clear to me if IQ will actually be apparent to me with full fame if I mostly just print small or email out images to family.
p.3 #12 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
The 40D is a fine modern DSLR camera and you have a great lens set for it. Newer bodies will have better features, but you have to ask yourself what isn't the 40D doing for you that a new camera could? Do you want video or AF in live view? Has the 40D AF been lacking for your use? Has 10 MP been enough resolution for your needs? Its all a return on investment question.
New 5DIIs are available at good prices because the camera is at the end of its retail cycle. An upgrade to full frame will give you the best improvement in image quality. But you may not see it if you don't print large or crop heavily. At the pixel level the 40D competes well with newer cameras, they just give you more pixels to work with. Your two L zooms are excellent on either format. A 1.4x works well on the 70-200 for reach and the 17-40 is also excellent especially stopped down to f8. You have a fairly straight forward upgrade path. Its tempting, but you will have to weigh the potential gains.
I'll add that I've given my 40D to my wife to use when she doesn't want to use her P&S. She has the 15-85 and 60 macro lenses. Looking back at this summer's travel photos, many of her images captured a moment better than mine and made it into the final slide show. Running the slide show on my iMac or TV, I can't tell any image quality difference between her images and mine.
p.3 #13 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
This is effectively ISO 6400 on a 7D.
I typically used no noise processing for shots ISO 800 and below and found the IQ good. Its not as clean as a FF body, and it doesnt differentiate between colours quite as well as the 5d2.
But on the whole it produces great images if you can. I've people shots too if you want to see but not many at high iso.
p.3 #16 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
Jeff Nolten wrote:
See, if Rob can make a 7D look good anyone can
Excellent as always Rob. I can only aspire to those kinds of shots.
Exactly. I was sitting here wondering, how does this help me? It doesn't matter what I buy, I am not going to be getting images like that.
The noise on the 7D though does look quite good at 6400. I am guessing there is some experienced post processing work though.
I am starting to wonder if I should stick with my 40D, buy a 17-55 for some indoor fast glass and wait a year or so for the 5DIII to come down or for something else to come out.
p.3 #18 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
RobDickinson wrote:
The lizard shot is run through neat image by someone who knows what they are doing. It would print fine at 7x5 , mebe a bit larger but not much.
p.3 #19 · Like to upgrade from 40D. Need advice please.
Lovely shots, Rob.
You can beat on the 7D and 40D with some heavy noise processing and get decent results at high ISO with most scenes. Scenes with wide dynamic range, a lot of detail, or where you miss the exposure, will lag the 5D II significantly. The 5D II files have more flexibility. But if your maximum print size is 8x10, perhaps the difference won't be as significant.
I can upload some 5D II raw files from various shooting scenarios if you want to play with them.
