Congrats on your new camera, Edward! A patient photog you are, and that's a trait well-suited to owning a digital M. One will exchange/repair them all too frequently. But they are worth it, for me anyway.
Off-topic: my LR saga (coming from hybrid DPP/PSE workflow)
1. Trialed original LR - hated it - uninstalled in less than 30 minutes
2. Trialed LR2 - disliked it - uninstalled in several days
3. Trialed LR3 - kinda attracted to it for its high volume file processing - kept it around
4. Upgraded to LR4 - really like it, for all of my processing, single file or mutliple hundreds of files
Takeaway: LR is easy to dismiss but it does grow on ya
Also, once you understand it, LR's file management is flexible, although at first it seems anything but.
edwardkaraa wrote:
By the way, the new M9 body I bought today turned out to have a small problem in the VF LED, so back to the shop and got it exchanged. Crazy!
a reason why I will never buy a brand new
Leica model right away. At least a few major
bugs will get discovered and (hopefuly) fixed...
sebboh wrote:
actually most are larger than FF as they're designed to allow movements.
Yeah, I think of this, too, when people complain about using a 135 lens on aps-c. Some systems make their lenses oversized to begin with, and this tends to improve performance across the field. Granted, some 135 lenses have Zone B dips that aren't in a great place on aps-c.
edwardkaraa wrote:
Thank you for the advice Ron. I really dislike LR, but I will see if I can figure it out to work just for image processing without wanting to catalogue my photos and create new collections each time. I love the simplicity of PSE.
As for the lever, I use it all the time, a bit like a movie director's angle finder.
What's the best M9 raw converter for windows in terms of color and rendering in your opinion?
What I don't really understand about leaving the lever out. In the interview they say the lever was to expensive to build.
With the ME its clear since it has to be cheaper than an M9. Loosing the lever is a great way to make it cheaper.
But was it that important to go for the 6200 euro price for the M they had to leave out the lever? Why not make it 6500 euro and include the lever?
Sounds more like the lever did not fit any more.
For the RAW software, I really like Capture One for my M9 files. A cheap version came free with the M8 (C1 LE) and I later updated to C1 pro 6. I almost never use photoshop any more. C1 even has keystone correction.
Only downside is the add ons for LR as Silver EX pro aren't there for C1, and the lens profiles are only for the medium format lenses. If u want them for 35mm film lenses U have to make them yourself.
Bijltje wrote:
But was it that important to go for the 6200 euro price for the M they had to leave out the lever? Why not make it 6500 euro and include the lever?
Sounds more like the lever did not fit any more.
I agree. When it's a $7000 Leica camera, the reason given (to save cost) really does not fly and actually cheapens the brand (and makes one wonder what else they have done to save money in building the camera)! I think it was a bad move. From a marketing point of view, they should have just said that it would not fit!
Capture 1's great with the fine detail level controls, but there are some things, like cropping an image or straightening perspective, made so difficult that it feels like the C1 developers don't want you to use them.
Congrats Edward! I am in a similar position but will likely make the move to buy a new M. It has all the features I need (for now) and looks to be a superb camera. I will just have to wait a while longer...
freaklikeme wrote:
Capture 1's great with the fine detail level controls, but there are some things, like cropping an image or straightening perspective, made so difficult that it feels like the C1 developers don't want you to use them.
Have u tried the C1 pro 6? I find the keystone correction pretty easy to use to straiten the perspective, much easier than photoshop. Just select some strait lines and press okey.
the older C1 5 and the C1 non pro 6 versions however don't have the key stone tool.
Cropping is not as easy as in photoshop indeed.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I agree. When it's a $7000 Leica camera, the reason given (to save cost) really does not fly and actually cheapens the brand (and makes one wonder what else they have done to save money in building the camera)! I think it was a bad move. From a marketing point of view, they should have just said that it would not fit!
This seems to happen with many brands, even near-luxury ones. For example, I was somewhat disappointed that Audi removed the hydraulically hinged trunk in the A4 and reverted to econo-car style arms that intrude in the trunk's storage space... apparently as a cost saving measure.
As for Leica, they could have instead been Apple-esque and stated the lever no longer satisfied the design objective, interfering with the clean lines of the overall design, just like the frame line illumination window. BTW, it sure will suck if the LED ever malfunctions... though one can always fall back on live view. In any case, I will miss the frame line preview function.
As Ron and others have mentioned, you will need sometime to get used to the pp on the M9. There is quite a bit of shadow details especially when shot at lower ISOs, so experiment with exposures a little and have fun.
BTW, I will also miss the framelines level on the new M. I use it all the time on my Ms, especially since the M8/9 does not have a built in dust cleaner and I don't really like to clean the sensors as often as I had to with the digital M
BTW, you might want to add a Schott glass protector for the LCD.
rscheffler wrote:
This seems to happen with many brands, even near-luxury ones. For example, I was somewhat disappointed that Audi removed the hydraulically hinged trunk in the A4 and reverted to econo-car style arms that intrude in the trunk's storage space... apparently as a cost saving measure.
As for Leica, they could have instead been Apple-esque and stated the lever no longer satisfied the design objective, interfering with the clean lines of the overall design, just like the frame line illumination window. BTW, it sure will suck if the LED ever malfunctions... though one can always fall back on live view. In any case, I will miss the frame line preview function....Show more →
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I don't think the FF mirror-less advantage will last for Leica that long. My guess is no more than maybe 4-6mo. once the M starts shipping. I expect a non-Leica FF mirrorless in 2013.
Just chiming on the previous discussion--I think Tariq may well be proven correct.
Look at the advertising for the RX-1: go FF or go home!
Who predicted that camera?
As to the lens line issue: for sony at least there is no issue. Not only is there now a wide variety of native emounts, but the alpha adapters are fully functional. The E is great because anything goes. Obviously the real question is going to be the sensor.
The new M will be the benchmark in that regard, obviously.
To my mind the new M is the most spectacular result of photokina, with cred to the nikon FFs and the rx-1 (and alot more i am not up on).
Too big...but it has a real RF....too big....but it's weather proof!
Like a bunch of others I'm starting to inventory
You have to wonder whether it's dawned on Leica that they have a market killer sitting right in from of them: just remove the rangefinder (gasp). It's taking up 20% of the sapce and the weight. Price at 4.5 k It's called the MM. Minimalist M---the backcountry M. Add styling from leica one. Sell many many.
I never use the frameline selector on my M4, and would prefer it be absent as with early DS M3 versions. A small mechanical trick may work for the new M where you depress the lens release botton and then wiggle the lens: the extra margin of play in the mount mechanism then allows the other framelines to appear. Crude, but keeps the sensor covered.
rico wrote:
I never use the frameline selector on my M4, and would prefer it be absent as with early DS M3 versions. A small mechanical trick may work for the new M where you depress the lens release botton and then wiggle the lens: the extra margin of play in the mount mechanism then allows the other framelines to appear. Crude, but keeps the sensor covered.
Wow, that does work! Great tip rico! (just tried it on the M9)
uhoh7 wrote:
You have to wonder whether it's dawned on Leica that they have a market killer sitting right in from of them: just remove the rangefinder (gasp). It's taking up 20% of the sapce and the weight. Price at 4.5 k It's called the MM. Minimalist M---the backcountry M. Add styling from leica one. Sell many many.
That's been the discussion for the last XX pages.
I'm sure they're well aware of the option and have held off for reasons that match their sales/brand objectives.
I could see it happening, but not for another ~1.5 years to give the M full chance to sell to as many as possible. By then there will likely be FF EVILs, and such a camera from Leica could well revive interest if M sales take a serious hit if it addresses weaknesses in other FF solutions. The selling point of an EVF-only M would, IMO, be the huge range of lens compatibility, especially RF glass, that likely will remain very problematic on 'standard' FF sensor offerings.
it took me half a day of my slow work-day but I'm done catching up to this thread. It's nice to read a Leica thread without every other post jumping on Leica for being expensive, pointless, dated, snobby, out of touch, etc. etc.
Some random comments from previous posts all in shotgun style:
I've shot with my dad's RF when I was a kid (don't remember what he had, I was too young) and had an Epson RD1 for about 1 year and I know I enjoyed shooting with it. To me it's not about IQ but about the RF experience. Somehow, I just had more creative shots with it and actually wanted to take it with me everywhere and shoot. I'm guessing it depends on your shooting style, as I prefer candid, non-posed photography to capture moments instead of "hey, look at me and smile!"
Even the noise at ISO 1600 was fine, just shot in B&W and they looked really nice. Even shot my friends wedding with it for fun and they wanted half a dozen of my shots printed (although I did tell them it's only 6MP and can't blow it up too much)
Corning Gorilla glass: never had a smartphone with one, but just in case, an iPhone is prone to cracking/shattering... because it's not Corning Gorilla glass, it is actually lower quality glass.
I've gone through so many cameras m43 (gh1, gh2, gf1, etc), dslrs, compact large sensor, etc. but I realized I never had so much fun and just "shot" like I had with the Epson RD1... so I'm giving up the technology "race" and gonna end up buying an M-E (or M9), I don't need the video/LV etc as I still have my Canon 1D for Tele/Sports/extra reach etc.
I'm getting transferred to Minnesota in a month so probably going to find a good local dealer to spend the money... and slowly upgrade my CV glasses to maybe ZM...
looking forward to take shots of actual winter/autumn/spring weather... lived in southern california for too long with 10 months of sun and 2 months of sporadic rain.
I definitely would like to read the differences in sensor looks from this new Leica, versus the M9 sensor.
And, from someone who has extensive use of the M9 sensor cameras.
uhoh7 wrote:
You have to wonder whether it's dawned on Leica that they have a market killer sitting right in from of them: just remove the rangefinder (gasp). It's taking up 20% of the sapce and the weight. Price at 4.5 k It's called the MM. Minimalist M---the backcountry M. Add styling from leica one. Sell many many.
I'm afraid that still won't make it a market killer. Maybe for the alt forum members, but not for the general public who wants AF and much lower price point -- even for a Leica.
PSquared63 wrote:
I'm afraid that still won't make it a market killer. Maybe for the alt forum members, but not for the general public who wants AF and much lower price point -- even for a Leica.
Agreed. I'd rather just have an M rangefinder of some kind. A FF mirrorless would have to be under $3k for me to consider it, and I'm still not sure that I wouldn't want an AF option sometimes.
