p.38 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
Ed; but isn't that the old 2010 interview just being rehashed? A two year old interview seems highly improbable to have any bearing today - considering Leica had a pre Photokina meet and greet with new products. Still might have a surprise or two though.
p.38 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
photo.guy wrote:
Where you start to see a difference is when you get to the high end with LED backlit panels rather than edge-lit. These have significantly better uniformity, motion handling (the backlight is scanned to reduce image persistence) and contrast. (areas of the screen can be selectively dimmed or turned off)
The biggest difference is contrast - but you're only going to notice that if you watch in a dim/dark room. Regular LCDs/Plasmas look completely washed-out in the dark with grey black levels compared to LED backlit sets.
You're placing LCDs and Plasmas in the same category... sorry, but they're absolutely not the same. Especially when it comes to dark levels. With Plasma, every pixel can be switched off, with LCD (LED backlit or not) this is not possible (yet). Look at this diagram of the Panasonic VT50:
And at the diagram of the LG LM960V which is a full-lit led-backlight LCD
Even the best Philips LCD with full-led backlight can't reach the uniformity of the Plasma.
When taking in account that the colours and contrast on a LCD screen heavily depends on viewing angle there's one conclusion: plasma doesn't belong in the category as lcd.
p.38 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
kosmoskatten wrote:
Ed; but isn't that the old 2010 interview just being rehashed? A two year old interview seems highly improbable to have any bearing today - considering Leica had a pre Photokina meet and greet with new products. Still might have a surprise or two though.
Exactly! But why republish an old 2010 interview just 4 days before the big event? And by whom? Non other than David Farkas. He claims that this interview contains many hints on what to come next week. Saying more would probably break his NDA.
p.38 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
edwardkaraa wrote:
Exactly! But why republish an old 2010 interview just 4 days before the big event?
Probably Leica fans are no less immune to wishful thinking than the rest of us.
Regarding the 2010 interview, it was interesting to read Daniel's comments on EVF/sensors improving to the point of being very usable (true and getting better all the time) while later spitting on the notion of a Leica user being forced to use one:
As more camera manufacturers move to mirrorless cameras, they become more like the M series. What is Leica going to do to create additional value?
We will keep the rangefinder. I can’t imagine that those companies will restart doing optical rangefinders to compete with Leica. It could be something to keep our current customers happy also giving somebody a much different experience by using a camera instead of being forced to look through an electronic viewfinder.
Guess his crystal ball also missed the Fujifilm developments.
Guess we'll know more, if anything, in a couple more days.
p.38 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
edwardkaraa wrote:
It could be the M10 with optical RF. It could be also an M shaped EVIL, with EVF in place of the RF. We will know on Monday, but my gut feeling tells me the leaked photos are of an M shaped EVIL, not M10.
If that's the case, it would be cool, but I'm afraid the price will still be too much for me. If the M9 drops under the $4K mark after Photokina, I'd probably rather just buy one of those...maybe.
p.38 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
douglasf13 wrote:
If the M9 drops under the $4K mark after Photokina, I'd probably rather just buy one of those...maybe.
Isn't a $4K M9 with a dated sensor just a status symbol for wealthy dilettantes?
Sorry, couldn't resist, no offence intended to Leica fans. I'd start getting interested in a M9 around $2,500. Brand aside, that seems like a fair price for a mirrorless semi-compact camera with a dated sensor and no close focus ability.
p.38 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
douglasf13 wrote:
If that's the case, it would be cool, but I'm afraid the price will still be too much for me. If the M9 drops under the $4K mark after Photokina, I'd probably rather just buy one of those...maybe.
p.38 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
michaelwatkins wrote:
Isn't a $4K M9 with a dated sensor just a status symbol for wealthy dilettantes?
Sorry, couldn't resist, no offence intended to Leica fans. I'd start getting interested in a M9 around $2,500. Brand aside, that seems like a fair price for a mirrorless semi-compact camera with a dated sensor and no close focus ability.
It's 100% about using a rangefinder. It's just a totally different experience, and it's why many non-rich photographers still shell out for Leica. I've considered the M8, but it is just a little too dated for me, output wise, and my X100 is an ok fake, but not quite there. Are you listening, Zeiss Ikon??
I'd also like the CFV digital backs to come down in price some more, so that I can shoot my Hasselblads digitally again, because working with those cameras is fun, too.
p.38 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
I hear you; I'd love to use a digital rangefinder but just won't at any price. In the meantime I shoot some film once in awhile when I want to remember what a 35mm lens really looks like or to enjoy the 18mm Distagon's original perspective. Unfortunately I have a development backlog from the summer to catch up with... waiting for rainy season to return.
Back to the RX1, it may be this development also signals that there won't be a full frame M mount capable camera coming out from Sony, ever.
That leaves Ricoh, and maybe a Zeiss labelled digital Ikon made by someone (?) alone as prospective fillers of the anyone but Leica M glass compactible full frame compact camera niche. Digital Ikon, where can we sign up?
Probably in time there is a higher chance of M9's dropping to $4K or $3K than Ricoh or Zeiss stepping up to the plate.
p.38 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
edwardkaraa wrote:
Probably a bit more. The red dot you know.
THAT would be a coup---M10 released for 3k. The iphone release has already stepped on the RX-1, but a 3K M10, now that would bury the promising newbie
@Doug
I think we will soon see the M9 going for around 4k and the 8s for under 2. I'd love to have either/both, but must guard my pennies for mythical FF small body nex
p.38 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
uhoh7 wrote:
@Doug
I think we will soon see the M9 going for around 4k and the 8s for under 2. I'd love to have either/both, but must guard my pennies for mythical FF small body nex
I'm hoping for more. I've already seen a few M9s go for $4000-$4200 over on get dpi, and Photokina hasn't happened yet. If we start seeing $3K M9s, it may be hard to resist. I don't foresee a FF NEX coming anytime soon, or I'd reconsider the Leica, but I'll probably stick with what I have.
p.38 #15 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
uhoh7 wrote:
THAT would be a coup---M10 released for 3k. The iphone release has already stepped on the RX-1, but a 3K M10, now that would bury the promising newbie
In what way does the Apple I-phone 5 "step" on the Sony RX-1?
p.38 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
uhoh7 wrote:
THAT would be a coup---M10 released for 3k. The iphone release has already stepped on the RX-1, but a 3K M10, now that would bury the promising newbie
@Doug
I think we will soon see the M9 going for around 4k and the 8s for under 2. I'd love to have either/both, but must guard my pennies for mythical FF small body nex
4k for an old, used M9. I will never understand what drives people to pay such insane prices for the "rangefinder experience". I've owned 3 rangefinders (film) and know what it is like. But 4 thousand dollars? My god...the cost. Of course, my brain melts at the new price. 8,000 dollars! Wow.......
I'm well off enough that I can buy any camera I want, anytime. But even with this surplus amount of cash, I would never, ever consider a Leica, simply based on cost. I'm not even tempted.
I do enjoy shooting with rangefinders for the one reason that you can see outside the camera view. That is nice and I was sorely tempted to get the Fuji GF670 for that reason alone. But the world of film is confusing to me regarding its future so I bought in cheap with a GA645 instead.
For me the Fuji X100 gives me all the rangefinder experience I need. I can see outside the camera view just as a range finder and the autofocus works decent to capture the image. I take no joy in aligning little images on top of each other.
p.38 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
rattymouse wrote:
For me the Fuji X100 gives me all the rangefinder experience I need. I can see outside the camera view just as a range finder and the autofocus works decent to capture the image. I take no joy in aligning little images on top of each other.
I thought that would be the case with my X100, and I really like the camera, but I do enjoy "aligning little images," I guess. Plus, I don't love having to trust AF without visually confirming in the viewfinder whether I focused on the correct thing (without having to quickly go to EVF mode by pressing on the thumb dial.) Either way, I'm sticking with my X100/NEX tandem for now.
p.38 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
I'd rather have a full frame GXR module for $1,500 or $2,000 than a Leica M9 for $4K.
But what I'd really like would be a full frame RX camera, or NEX if that were technically sound, with a short back focal distance allowing for use of almost any lens I want. I'd also like that camera to have at least a basic selection of Zeiss autofocus lenses.
Maybe the RX ILC will be such a camera; surely it would have a very small back focal length, meaning it like the NEX would be ideal for adapting other lenses. Sony could put the RX ILC at a disadvantage and make it hard to use adapted lenses, but then again they could adopt a sanguine attitude and feel, or know from numbers, that being "open" is accretive to their NEX camera sales and therefore good for the RX series too.
If a mythical RX ILC doesn't cater specifically to adapted lenses we likely won't get as good performance from symmetrical wide RF lenses can be had from a GXR or M9, but maybe performance will be good enough. Or perhaps performance would be amply good enough in a "virtual APC crop mode" the full frame camera could offer as a menu option.
Those software folks will have more pixels to play with... "crop mode" seems like a logical feature to throw in.
